Ryan Wilson
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Rochester, NY Joined: 06.13.2013
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Tojo.
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Aliquippa, PA Joined: 11.11.2014
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https://www.pensburgh.com...rades-2019-minnesota-wild
Pensburgh speculated on a Kessel/Maatta for Zucker/1st trade
I don't think I'd do that, but Zucker is the type of wing I'd like to see with Malkin. Good two way possession player who has at least 19 ES goals 3 of the past 5 years. |
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https://www.pensburgh.com/2019/5/17/18629288/nhl-trade-rumors-phil-kessel-pittsburgh-penguins-trades-2019-minnesota-wild
Pensburgh speculated on a Kessel/Maatta for Zucker/1st trade
I don't think I'd do that, but Zucker is the type of wing I'd like to see with Malkin. Good two way possession player who has at least 19 ES goals 3 of the past 5 years. - Tojo.
Not sure what the 1st round pick does for the pens unless they bundle that with their other 1st to move up higher for an immediate impact draftee or flip them for something else.
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Cousinskrid
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: the BURGH, PA Joined: 03.08.2018
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Kessel AND Schultz for Subban??
Uhhhh... no. |
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MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF Joined: 12.12.2014
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With Schultz's contract expiring after next year I think I'd pull the trigger on Kessel and Schultz for Subban. You end up with a signed for 3 years elite right handed D-man and about 3.3 mill in cap space. |
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jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Newark, DE Joined: 03.09.2010
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Kessel AND Schultz for Subban??
Uhhhh... no. - Cousinskrid
Why not? Schultz will likely price himself out of Pittsburgh and you get Subban (arguably a top-5 NHL defenseman) for 3 more years. Losing Kessel would obviously hurt, but if you could move Hornqvist (which you probably can) to open up space to add a decent middle-6 winger, it may work out. |
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Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: San Diego, CA Joined: 06.17.2014
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Why not? Schultz will likely price himself out of Pittsburgh and you get Subban (arguably a top-5 NHL defenseman) for 3 more years. Losing Kessel would obviously hurt, but if you could move Hornqvist (which you probably can) to open up space to add a decent middle-6 winger, it may work out. - jmatchett383
Yeah that’s a Phil trade I wouldn’t hate and I’d be comfortable throwing Pettersson in the top 4 if his partner is the caliber of PK. We’d lose a good deal of fire power from Kessel though that we’re not replacing. |
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jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Newark, DE Joined: 03.09.2010
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Yeah that’s a Phil trade I wouldn’t hate and I’d be comfortable throwing Pettersson in the top 4 if his partner is the caliber of PK. We’d lose a good deal of fire power from Kessel though that we’re not replacing. - Victoro311
I feel that the 2 most important positions for depth are center and defense. If you have strength down the middle and strength of the back end, you can get by with average/decent wingers and goaltending. Obviously, bad goaltending can sink you no matter what. However, if you have a 1-2 punch of Crosby and Malkin and 2 anchors in Letang and Subban, that's pretty formidable.
I mean, um, Letang once made a bad read, he needs to be traded ASAP. |
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I like Schultz. Always have but this is the cost of getting a guy like Subban. I think something else comes back Pittsburgh’s way but it wouldn’t be extremely significant. Maybe a third or something. We’ve talked about this idea for a while now. What about alternatives?
It’s a long shot but if we somehow got Karlsson in free agency we could move Schultz to SJ and could still move Kessel to Nashville, Minnesota, AZ (although at their stage they aren’t likely to offer fair value), or LA. Or we could always keep Schultz. Kessel/Schultz for Subban+ just makes too much sense |
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Dark horse pick to land Kessel: Colorado. They have a ton of value contracts where they can fit him in for the short term. Obviously they would love Schultz too. D corps of EJ, Barrie, Cole, Schultz, Makar, Girard. Drool. This would fit GMJRs pushback factor if we took Zadorov coming back lol. Problem with COL is they don’t need to trade for him, they can solve their issues in FA and won’t need to give up assets |
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Tojo.
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Aliquippa, PA Joined: 11.11.2014
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Why not? Schultz will likely price himself out of Pittsburgh and you get Subban (arguably a top-5 NHL defenseman) for 3 more years. Losing Kessel would obviously hurt, but if you could move Hornqvist (which you probably can) to open up space to add a decent middle-6 winger, it may work out. - jmatchett383
Kessel and Schultz feels like an overpay. Even as a rental Schultz has a lot of value. And Kessel is a PPG player.
On the other hand, Schultz is gone if they got PK. If they can get that middle 6 wing or even a good 3rd line wing as well then I'd do it. Nashville has a ton of those guys. |
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Tojo.
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Aliquippa, PA Joined: 11.11.2014
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I feel that the 2 most important positions for depth are center and defense. If you have strength down the middle and strength of the back end, you can get by with average/decent wingers and goaltending. Obviously, bad goaltending can sink you no matter what. However, if you have a 1-2 punch of Crosby and Malkin and 2 anchors in Letang and Subban, that's pretty formidable.
I mean, um, Letang once made a bad read, he needs to be traded ASAP. - jmatchett383
Agree with this, though I also agree there should be a follow up move to add a wing for Malkin. Not a star necessarily, but a legit 20-50 guy. |
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Thorny87
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Calgary, AB Joined: 10.17.2014
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Cousinskrid
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: the BURGH, PA Joined: 03.08.2018
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Why not? Schultz will likely price himself out of Pittsburgh and you get Subban (arguably a top-5 NHL defenseman) for 3 more years. Losing Kessel would obviously hurt, but if you could move Hornqvist (which you probably can) to open up space to add a decent middle-6 winger, it may work out. - jmatchett383
As much as I like Schultz, I don't think he's done enough here to price himself out of our cap space. Now, if he has an awesome (and uninjured) season coming up, then it's a different story. Maybe it's just too early to place a YAY or NAY on this. So for now, uhhh… no. |
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Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Somewhere, NJ Joined: 01.21.2016
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Why not? Schultz will likely price himself out of Pittsburgh and you get Subban (arguably a top-5 NHL defenseman) for 3 more years. Losing Kessel would obviously hurt, but if you could move Hornqvist (which you probably can) to open up space to add a decent middle-6 winger, it may work out. - jmatchett383
Seems like a fair trade. Financially with works out well. I’d try to have NSH add a 2nd. |
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jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Newark, DE Joined: 03.09.2010
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As much as I like Schultz, I don't think he's done enough here to price himself out of our cap space. Now, if he has an awesome (and uninjured) season coming up, then it's a different story. Maybe it's just too early to place a YAY or NAY on this. So for now, uhhh… no. - Cousinskrid
They'll need raises for Murray, Pettersson, McCann, Bleuger, and Simon within the next 2 years, as well as some smaller guys (ZAR, etc.). There's no way they could stay status quo and be able to resign Schultz, even with the cap increasing by $2M. Something's gotta give. Even if you move Hornqvist, anyone you get to adequately replace him will still cost $3M or so, so it's gotta be a high dollar contract.
If you can move out Schultz and Kessel for Subban, you're getting a top-5 NHL RD and have just freed up $3.3M to replace Kessel. IF SPENT CORRECTLY...I feel that you can upgrade your team overall, even if you won't fully replace Kessel's offense. |
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Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: San Diego, CA Joined: 06.17.2014
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Kessel and Schultz feels like an overpay. Even as a rental Schultz has a lot of value. And Kessel is a PPG player.
On the other hand, Schultz is gone if they got PK. If they can get that middle 6 wing or even a good 3rd line wing as well then I'd do it. Nashville has a ton of those guys. - Tojo.
Thing is we’re moving Kessel just to move him apparently. Id rather just not trade Kessel, but if we are I’m more interested in making a trade that makes our team stay relatively as good as before the trade than losing or winning the trade from a technical standpoint. I think trading Kessel and Schultz is a lateral move. At worst maybe it makes us slightly worse off because of lack of finishing ability but that can be addressed. So all in all that sounds good to me. |
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Cousinskrid
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: the BURGH, PA Joined: 03.08.2018
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They'll need raises for Murray, Pettersson, McCann, Bleuger, and Simon within the next 2 years, as well as some smaller guys (ZAR, etc.). There's no way they could stay status quo and be able to resign Schultz, even with the cap increasing by $2M. Something's gotta give. Even if you move Hornqvist, anyone you get to adequately replace him will still cost $3M or so, so it's gotta be a high dollar contract.
If you can move out Schultz and Kessel for Subban, you're getting a top-5 NHL RD and have just freed up $3.3M to replace Kessel. IF SPENT CORRECTLY...I feel that you can upgrade your team overall, even if you won't fully replace Kessel's offense. - jmatchett383
Points well made. And so this is why I've previously made the (wildly unpopular) suggestion of looking at core pieces, excluding Sid. I think something that also may come to the aid of the Pens' potential future cap issues could be the Kraken expansion draft. Not sure how Simon could demand anything. |
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jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Newark, DE Joined: 03.09.2010
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Points well made. And so this is why I've previously made the (wildly unpopular) suggestion of looking at core pieces, excluding Sid. I think something that also may come to the aid of the Pens' potential future cap issues could be the Kraken expansion draft. - Cousinskrid
If I were the GM, I'd rather not move any of the core pieces. I'd move both Maatta and Hornqvist for the best possible return(s), assuming JMFJ is unmovable, and try to use that money to upgrade the team as best as possible, including trying to resign Schultz.
However, for the point of this exercise, looking at their FA sitaution over the next 2 years, I think it's a fair trade, although a bottom-6 winger (Watson?) or a 2nd rounder coming back would be nice. |
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joegreif17
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Location: Hockeyville, BC Joined: 05.10.2009
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The one thing people are forgetting is that Kessel is the key guy on the pp. He is more valuable on the pp than anyone else on the Pens. He is an elite scorer and playmaker and trust me Geno and Sidney would miss him more than you can imagine. I just do not understand how Phil always gets a bad rap, he just keeps producing and staying healthy and who cares how many hot dogs he eats. |
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Thing is we’re moving Kessel just to move him apparently. Is rather just not trade Kessel, but if we are I’m more interested in making a trade that makes our team stay relatively as good as before the trade than losing or winning the trade from a technical standpoint. I think trading Kessel and Schultz is a lateral move. At worst maybe it makes us slightly worse off because of lack of finishing ability but that can be addressed. So all in all that sounds good to me. - Victoro311
I agree on paper, but having a negative effect on your teammates off the ice absolutely effects on ice performance and that’s apparently the case with Phil. Nobody questions Subban’s work ethic. He’s a monster in the gym. So even if it’s a lateral move on paper, in the locker room it COULD be a huge win. It also gives Malkin a fantastic puck mover for the second pair
Responding the people discussing cap terms for the next 2 seasons: you should also assume that Maatta will be dealt and that Gudbranson won’t be re-upped. JJ will eventually be moved or bought out, it just won’t happen this season. Rust is likely a casualty at some point as well |
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Tojo.
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Aliquippa, PA Joined: 11.11.2014
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Thing is we’re moving Kessel just to move him apparently. Id rather just not trade Kessel, but if we are I’m more interested in making a trade that makes our team stay relatively as good as before the trade than losing or winning the trade from a technical standpoint. I think trading Kessel and Schultz is a lateral move. At worst maybe it makes us slightly worse off because of lack of finishing ability but that can be addressed. So all in all that sounds good to me. - Victoro311
I'm fine moving on from Kessel. He actually hurts Malkin more than he helps him anymore (look at the WOWY stats over the past two years) and I don't know where else to put him as his game plummets away from Malkin. But I want to make a hockey trade and that PPG with a sub 7M salary should still get a decent return.
Kessel for Subban may need a sweetener, but Schultz I think is more than that. But the deal can be evened out easily, so I agree with the principle. |
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joegreif17
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Location: Hockeyville, BC Joined: 05.10.2009
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I agree on paper, but having a negative effect on your teammates off the ice absolutely effects on ice performance and that’s apparently the case with Phil. Nobody questions Subban’s work ethic. He’s a monster in the gym. So even if it’s a lateral move on paper, in the locker room it COULD be a huge win. It also gives Malkin a fantastic puck mover for the second pair
Responding the people discussing cap terms for the next 2 seasons: you should also assume that Maatta will be dealt and that Gudbranson won’t be re-upped. JJ will eventually be moved or bought out, it just won’t happen this season. Rust is likely a casualty at some point as well - WSCTeton17
Despite Phil's quiet personality I would think PK would drive most teammates nuts. He is like all mouth and I know it would wear thin with me. Sooner have a quiet dude like Phil than a fog horn.
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joegreif17
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Location: Hockeyville, BC Joined: 05.10.2009
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I'm fine moving on from Kessel. He actually hurts Malkin more than he helps him anymore (look at the WOWY stats over the past two years) and I don't know where else to put him as his game plummets away from Malkin. But I want to make a hockey trade and that PPG with a sub 7M salary should still get a decent return.
Kessel for Subban may need a sweetener, but Schultz I think is more than that. But the deal can be evened out easily, so I agree with the principle. - Tojo.
Bottom line for me is that if a Kessel trade happens it is very likely whoever gets Kessel will win the trade. |
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The one thing people are forgetting is that Kessel is the key guy on the pp. He is more valuable on the pp than anyone else on the Pens. He is an elite scorer and playmaker and trust me Geno and Sidney would miss him more than you can imagine. I just do not understand how Phil always gets a bad rap, he just keeps producing and staying healthy and who cares how many hot dogs he eats. - joegreif17
The power play alignment will adjust. As I recall we had a solid PP before he cams, it struggled at times with him here, and will still be great and struggle with him gone. Less touches for Phil just means more touches for Geno, Sid, and whoever replaces Phil (Subban 1-T anyone?) |
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