JOHNNY TORONTO????? When did pajama girl change her name???
- cmimbri

Go home.

Can we look forward to months of this?

Dubas will not be fired. That's reality.

Willie may be traded.
- Fakepartofme

Dubas doesn't deserve to be fired BUT, like Babcock it is fair to ask questions about their respective judgement.

Probably the two items will come back on Dubas are Nylander's contract, both how it played out and the eventual dollar amount - the second being not addressing the blue line situation adequately (or so it appears).

1) "they" decided to keep Gardiner as an own rental - which (hindsight being 20-20) was a poor decision. (my personal preference - which I communicated last summer was to move Gardiner then for Gardiner's sake - mentally he was never getting past 2018 game 7 against Boston while with Toronto. Last night would kind of support that - this judgement is on Dubas

2) Nylander hold out was obviously a distraction. That's on Dubas and Nylander. How they "allowed" Nylander to re-enter the lineup is on Babcock - that too was ham handled.

What will be telling for Dubas is how he handles Nylander going forward. Everyone knows all the aspects of the Leafs upcoming CAP crunch - If Dubas manages to lose some of Johnsson, Kapanen or others because of Duba's handling of Nylander's contract - then that's on him.

IF he proactively moves/trades any of the players involved to address a roster need - then good on him. If he moves Nylander to do so - more power to him for recognizing his(Dubas) error - and not being stubborn (which will all acuse Babcock of being)..... how Dubas handles the Nylander situation will be the pivot point of his GM tenure. If he hides behind the Marner contract negotiations - BECAUSE he can't focus on anything else - he will be doing a disservice to the other players on the team who do actually play at an elite level.

move Nylander
robidas island for Marleau and his developing back problem
wave bye-bye to Gardiner (which should have been done summer 2018) - this is addition by subtraction

one of the major flaws of virtually every GM I can remember in Toronto - is falling love (not so much with the players) but with their own decisions - doubling down if you will.... let's see if Doogie Howser Dubas' spreadsheets tell him if this is the case.

i dont know what to believe...I just read the opposite

anyways, I dont see a fit with Nashville
- senstroll

I still see the Canes as a fit if a deal has to be made but I doubt the Leafs make a big deal. I think they'll add a cheap vet d-man and maybe another 4th line bargain.

Marleau will give them cap relief.

i dont know what to believe...I just read the opposite

anyways, I dont see a fit with Nashville
- senstroll

I think that guy missed my point of adapting to today’s game.

Make changes, try different systems, not sticking to the same thing hoping it will work when it doesn’t.

Babcock needs to stop being so stubborn, the more you question his decisions, the more he won’t change it seems.

1st in blocked shots, 2nd in hits, 2nd in ice time, 2 min per game on PK, 2 min per game on PP. Played every single game.

And that's on a deep Predator blueline.

The guy has always seemed like a warrior going back to his junior days.
- JohnFergusonJr

He had a bad year. The Nashville D is living on reputation. Ekholm had an ok year, but horrible playoffs. Josi was good, but not great. Subban seems to care more about his image than his game, which is basically stupid penalties and turnovers. Of all our top 4, I'd let Subban walk first. Then Ellis, because of his size. It's a liability in the Central.

1) "they" decided to keep Gardiner as an own rental - which (hindsight being 20-20) was a poor decision. (my personal preference - which I communicated last summer was to move Gardiner then for Gardiner's sake - mentally he was never getting past 2018 game 7 against Boston while with Toronto. Last night would kind of support that - this judgement is on Dubas
- BorjeFan4Ever

If Gardiner was healthy, with the acquisition of Muzzin, moving Gardiner would make sense, especially if they recovered the cost of Muzzin.

But Gardiner wasn't healthy. He missed 17 games to end the season. And he was noticeably banged up in the playoffs. Nobody was going to give the Leafs anything close to fair value for an injured Gardiner at the deadline.

Meh....My 'boy Willy', also didn't get suspended in 2 consecutive playoff years.. How has Kadri not learned anything yet? Additionally, it's fair to say that Nylander needs to play with players that are better than Brown and Marleau.

Not knocking Nylander, but IMO, next year is where we will see his value.. This year was a write off for him.. I fully expect him to get 60-70 points next year playing with Matthews.
- PatC80

genuine question - not trolling - what leads you to believe he can become a 70 point player again? He just completed a stretch 50-60 games - a good chuck of which he played with "good players" and scored 8 goals and what 20-25 assists...

something happened to that guy when he held out and subsequently signed - he's not the same player.

1st in blocked shots, 2nd in hits, 2nd in ice time, 2 min per game on PK, 2 min per game on PP. Played every single game.

And that's on a deep Predator blueline.

The guy has always seemed like a warrior going back to his junior days.
- JohnFergusonJr

I've always liked Ellis but they'd have to do their homework on his body. He's got 8 years at 6.25 in front of him and he's 28 now. He's had a couple injuries and at his size and the way he plays you gotta worry about what's left in 2 years let alone 5 or 6.

If Gardiner was healthy, with the acquisition of Muzzin, moving Gardiner would make sense, especially if they recovered the cost of Muzzin.

But Gardiner wasn't healthy. He missed 17 games to end the season. And he was noticeably banged up in the playoffs. Nobody was going to give the Leafs anything close to fair value for an injured Gardiner at the deadline.
- JohnFergusonJr

that was kind of my point with what I suggested - they should have moved him last summer, which would have benefited the player and the team.

moving Gardiner at TDL wouldn't have hurt the Leafs in any meaningful way.. and might have got them a mid-round pick.

I think that guy missed my point of adapting to today’s game.

Make changes, try different systems, not sticking to the same thing hoping it will work when it doesn’t.

Babcock needs to stop being so stubborn, the more you question his decisions, the more he won’t change it seems.
- LeafMan

I can buy that, ego may be an issue. understandable since the guy has been called the best for 15 years

Just a guess here, but I suspect Dubas would like a coach who can work with others and is open to suggestions outside his own views.

I dont think Babs is let go yet, 1 more kick at it. then its game on if they fail again

He had a bad year. The Nashville D is living on reputation. Ekholm had an ok year, but horrible playoffs. Josi was good, but not great. Subban seems to care more about his image than his game, which is basically stupid penalties and turnovers. Of all our top 4, I'd let Subban walk first. Then Ellis, because of his size. It's a liability in the Central.
- FoxMulder

If that's a bad year, I'll buy low on Ellis. He'd improve the Leafs D immensely and immediately.

The Predators D was probably more taxed by having to play in their own zone too much and the offense not scoring enough, forcing the D to be perfect. If the Predators could score some goals, they would have gone much further.

Look at your leading goal and point producers. Look at how many games they played. Look at how many guys scored 20, 30 and 40 goals (none).

Here is my point of view on watching the series unfold. Boston was favoured so losing to them was not a shock. Both teams were so close that it could of went down either way. What it actually came down to was special teams. You fix the PP and PK and its a different story. First priority should be this Imo. Everything else was dead even.

If he’s going to be any value to the Leafs he needs to earn a lot more of that 7mil contract. If what he does well is little things like zone-entries, creating space, and stick-checking then he needs to do all those thug perfectly and find a way to use his game to help other players produce. Nylanders desire to hold onto the puck takes away a lot of the offence the Leafs have. Play good defence, get open to receive a pass, gain the zone, pass to Matthews, go to the net. No more fly-bys and taking shifts off. Start him with Papi (if he’s not traded) and be hard on him. Make his adjust, or demand a trade.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

or just move him now - if you don't you risk ruining another season - Nylander as a center to replace Kadri (moving him is asinine to me) would be a 80 games of what we say in the playoffs, Nylander waiting for his wingers to do something. Nylander needs to open the ice himself by skating - which he seems to have forgotten how to do during his holdout

genuine question - not trolling - what leads you to believe he can become a 70 point player again? He just completed a stretch 50-60 games - a good chuck of which he played with "good players" and scored 8 goals and what 20-25 assists...

something happened to that guy when he held out and subsequently signed - he's not the same player.
- BorjeFan4Ever

There's a lot of comparatives out there. Guys that hold out, miss camp, jump into the season .....have relatively poop seasons. Gaudreau had his worst year after his holdout and he only missed a couple of weeks.

It's not an excuse ...he was subpar all year ...but before tossing him overboard I'm hoping they measure the situation. The reason the world is all over this kid is because he played/performed well-below expectations. Clearly we all expect more of him b/c we all know what he is capable of doing.

Hopefully he uses this to motivate himself and Babcock/Dubas get him back on Matthews wing next year.

That being said ...if somebody is willing to dangle an affordable top end RHD for him then get 'er dun.

If that's a bad year, I'll buy low on Ellis. He'd improve the Leafs D immensely and immediately.

The Predators D was probably more taxed by having to play in their own zone too much and the offense not scoring enough, forcing the D to be perfect. If the Predators could score some goals, they would have gone much further.

Look at your leading goal and point producers. Look at how many games they played. Look at how many guys scored 20, 30 and 40 goals (none).
- JohnFergusonJr

Stats are fine but there's something to be said for the eye test, and he didn't pass. I'd move Subban first and foremost, but we need to get bigger and Ellis isn't. Honestly, he hasn't been the same since his injury last year.

Here is my point of view on watching the series unfold. Boston was favoured so losing to them was not a shock. Both teams were so close that it could of went down either way. What it actually came down to was special teams. You fix the PP and PK and its a different story. First priority should be this Imo. Everything else was dead even.
- Buck Norris

Truth.

B's also crushed the Leafs 4-0 in empty net goals. We gotta fix that poop.

Stats are fine but there's something to be said for the eye test, and he didn't pass. I'd move Subban first and foremost, but we need to get bigger and Ellis isn't. Honestly, he hasn't been the same since his injury last year.
- FoxMulder

No takebacksies!

I think that guy missed my point of adapting to today’s game.

Make changes, try different systems, not sticking to the same thing hoping it will work when it doesn’t.

Babcock needs to stop being so stubborn, the more you question his decisions, the more he won’t change it seems.
- LeafMan

its certainly fair to call Babcock stubborn....

but its also fair to say the same about Dubas... how many 5'10" fast wingers that can turn quickly do you need?
when I look at Columbus' roster and the Bruins roster and Caps roster - yes they each have a couple -but..

they also have some larger more physical players.

that uniformity across the roster and the resulting lack of flexibility/adaptability is on Dubas

genuine question - not trolling - what leads you to believe he can become a 70 point player again? He just completed a stretch 50-60 games - a good chuck of which he played with "good players" and scored 8 goals and what 20-25 assists...

something happened to that guy when he held out and subsequently signed - he's not the same player.
- BorjeFan4Ever

I have to think having a full training camp, a regular off-season to train and not worry about money and playing potentially 82 games with Matthews will help him reach 60-70 points..
This past season, to me was write off for him.. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this year. I think his shooting percentage will fall in line with his average from the previous 2 seasons.

If he doesn't do it next year, then by all means trade him next year if it makes us better..
For this off-season, I'd like to see Kadri be traded.. I know it likely won't happen but I would still like it too.

that was kind of my point with what I suggested - they should have moved him last summer, which would have benefited the player and the team.

moving Gardiner at TDL wouldn't have hurt the Leafs in any meaningful way.. and might have got them a mid-round pick.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Without having Muzzin, trading Gardiner would have hurt the team. Gardiner wasn't a problem until he got hurt.

its certainly fair to call Babcock stubborn....

but its also fair to say the same about Dubas... how many 5'10" fast wingers that can turn quickly do you need?
when I look at Columbus' roster and the Bruins roster and Caps roster - yes they each have a couple -but..

they also have some larger more physical players.

that uniformity across the roster and the resulting lack of flexibility/adaptability is on Dubas
- BorjeFan4Ever

You don’t have to preach to me, I said this team has been missing the physical element for two years.

I have to think having a full training camp, a regular off-season to train and not worry about money and playing potentially 82 games with Matthews will help him reach 60-70 points..
This past season, to me was write off for him.. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this year. I think his shooting percentage will fall in line with his average from the previous 2 seasons.

If he doesn't do it next year, then by all means trade him next year if it makes us better..
For this off-season, I'd like to see Kadri be traded.. I know it likely won't happen but I would still like it too.
- PatC80

Kadri for Turris, straight up.

It is kind of funny how much talk there is of the importance of top 4 defenders going on in here when we have early exits from Tampa, Calgary, and Nashville. Dallas, who still plays Roman Polak and Ben Lovejoy, is off to round 2, beating one of the best defensive teams in the league... Having stars means nothing if they don't show up.

I've always liked Ellis but they'd have to do their homework on his body. He's got 8 years at 6.25 in front of him and he's 28 now. He's had a couple injuries and at his size and the way he plays you gotta worry about what's left in 2 years let alone 5 or 6.
- The Law

At this point, the Leafs options are limited and some level of risk will have to be taken. Unless they expect these great players to fall from the sky for free.

It is kind of funny how much talk there is of the importance of top 4 defenders going on in here when we have early exits from Tampa, Calgary, and Nashville. Dallas, who still plays Roman Polak and Ben Lovejoy, is off to round 2, beating one of the best defensive teams in the league... Having stars means nothing if they don't show up.
- mgriffen

This year is quickly proving to be the exception, not the rule. Give me all the best defenders and watch them win 9 times out of 10. This is the 1 time out of 10.