The more I've been thinking about all of this and while I do think Sullivan is a big culprit, I'm wondering how much at odds Sullivan is with JR. JR calls this defense the best he's had since being here, yet you look at the ATOI for the dmen in the playoffs and this coach DEFINITELY doesn't feel the same.

What does this mean? Probably not much since the GM calls the shots at the end of the day but my guess is Sullivan would prefer to not have JJ on this team.
- Rinosaur

Sullivan could have stuffed JJ in the press box. The GM ultimately calls the shots, but the coach submits the roster. I'm sure Sullivan likes his cozy job, but he could always called JR's bluff.

I'm just seeing if it's a viable option because I don't think the other moveable pieces can improve the team. But if Murray is only a half step ahead of DeSmith but he can improve the defense by a full step in trade, might be something to entertain. Remember, most goalies are only as good as the team in front of them.
- jmatchett383

I think everyone is moveable, but like you said earlier, is the return there? I think if the right players are moved, the goal can be obtained. But who do you move?

I don't want Maatta moved, but it seems like a foregone conclusion that he's out, so I will include him. You move Maatta, Hornqvist, JJ and possibly Rust. I like Rust, but if he can be used as incentive to move someone else, then I do it.

Moving JJ is obviously the hardest. I think the best you can hope for is getting a not-so-good contract in return, but with a little incentive, one that's easier for the Pens to manage as far as term is concerned. Maybe retaining some salary to get someone who's only on the hook for another year or two.

I believe Hornqvist can be packaged to get type of dman they need.

I believe you can move Maatta to get a middle six winger and hopefully one that has the attributes to more toward the right kind of identity.

Sullivan could have stuffed JJ in the press box. The GM ultimately calls the shots, but the coach submits the roster. I'm sure Sullivan likes his cozy job, but he could always called JR's bluff.
- jmatchett383

Not all teams have the same power dynamic between coach and GM. While the coach submits the roster, that doesn't mean there isn't pressure from above to submit the roster they want.

Regardless, he played JJ less than everyone else and Letang WAY more than everyone else. The ATOI between dmen was pretty huge.

I think everyone is moveable, but like you said earlier, is the return there? I think if the right players are moved, the goal can be obtained. But who do you move?

I don't want Maatta moved, but it seems like a foregone conclusion that he's out, so I will include him. You move Maatta, Hornqvist, JJ and possibly Rust. I like Rust, but if he can be used as incentive to move someone else, then I do it.

Moving JJ is obviously the hardest. I think the best you can hope for is getting a not-so-good contract in return, but with a little incentive, one that's easier for the Pens to manage as far as term is concerned. Maybe retaining some salary to get someone who's only on the hook for another year or two.

I believe Hornqvist can be packaged to get type of dman they need.

I believe you can move Maatta to get a middle six winger and hopefully one that has the attributes to more toward the right kind of identity.
- Rinosaur

I don't know. If Penguins fans can see the warts, I'd think that other GMs can as well. Speaking from a Flyers' perspective, many fans thought he'd get AT LEAST a first, and he brought Ryan Hartman and a 3rd (which I thought was actually fair). I think Maatta may bring a bottom-9 winger, but I don't think Hornqvist can be packaged with anything short of a 1st rounder to get a top-4 defenseman. His contract, age, and production put him close to JJ level. As for Johnson, I agree, eat some money to lower the term.

I don't think moving Rust is good. I think his value to the team is more than what he'd bring in return.

Not all teams have the same power dynamic between coach and GM. While the coach submits the roster, that doesn't mean there isn't pressure from above to submit the roster they want.

Regardless, he played JJ less than everyone else and Letang WAY more than everyone else. The ATOI between dmen was pretty huge.
- Rinosaur

Well that's why I said he could have called his bluff, but he's putting his ass on the line.

I don't know. If Penguins fans can see the warts, I'd think that other GMs can as well. Speaking from a Flyers' perspective, many fans thought he'd get AT LEAST a first, and he brought Ryan Hartman and a 3rd (which I thought was actually fair). I think Maatta may bring a bottom-9 winger, but I don't think Hornqvist can be packaged with anything short of a 1st rounder to get a top-4 defenseman. His contract, age, and production put him close to JJ level. As for Johnson, I agree, eat some money to lower the term.

I don't think moving Rust is good. I think his value to the team is more than what he'd bring in return.
- jmatchett383

Again, seeing the warts in JJ doesn't mean another team doesn't have their own wart that would be less of a wart to the Pens lol

Also, while obviously you always want to maximize the return in a trade, these trades aren't necessarily about value, but rather trading the personnel that change the dynamic of this team.

I'm just seeing if it's a viable option because I don't think the other moveable pieces can improve the team. But if Murray is only a half step ahead of DeSmith but he can improve the defense by a full step in trade, might be something to entertain. Remember, most goalies are only as good as the team in front of them.
- jmatchett383

Murrays next contract scares me. He is incredibly injury prone and has never really proven he can handle the workload that comes with being (and being paid like) a #1 goalie... he has played 50 games once in his career.

I think he is great at his current rate of pay but if he is looking at a $5,6,7 mil average, I'd be testing the market.

Murrays next contract scares me. He is incredibly injury prone and has never really proven he can handle the workload that comes with being (and being paid like) a #1 goalie... he has played 50 games once in his career.

I think he is great at his current rate of pay but if he is looking at a $5,6,7 mil average, I'd be testing the market.
- MacPatty

Find me an established starting goalie, not some bargain who came out of nowhere or under an ELC who makes less than $5M.

Now, find one who’s available after we move Murray.

Anyone see that "SOFT" short handed goal that Golden Child gave up in double OT yesterday? I thought only Murray gets outplayed and gives up bad goals.

I think as fans we need not fall into that “grass is always greener” mentality. Yes, this team needs some changes, but we should be careful to not undervalue players are far better than what some give credit for and are very difficult to replace.

Anyone see that "SOFT" short handed goal that Golden Child gave up in double OT yesterday? I thought only Murray gets outplayed and gives up bad goals.
- stevens87

You mean the puck that knuckled its way in?

It wasn't soft at all, but he still should have been in better positioning and made the save.

Also, Jones absolutely stole that game for SJ, he was fantastic.

You mean the puck that knuckled its way in?

It wasn't soft at all, but he still should have been in better positioning and made the save.

Also, Jones absolutely stole that game for SJ, he was fantastic.
- jmatchett383

Oh, I agree with you 100% but if Murray gave up the same goal under the same circumstances;WOW! Some people would be rioting in the streets saying he is the worst goalie in NHL history, can't make a big save, always gets outplayed by the other guy and how we needed to keep MAF

Find me an established starting goalie, not some bargain who came out of nowhere or under an ELC who makes less than $5M.

Now, find one who’s available after we move Murray.
- Rinosaur

Find me one established goalie who is making +$5M per year but only played 50 games in a season once.

I'm not bashing the guy, just saying that it would be a big risk to give him a big money long term contract. Would I be cool with a 3 year $15M deal? Sure. But anything longer in term or aav would be scary.

I think as fans we need not fall into that “grass is always greener” mentality. Yes, this team needs some changes, but we should be careful to not undervalue players are far better than what some give credit for and are very difficult to replace.
- Rinosaur

I would have agreed with that last year but at no point during the season did this look like a team. I think Geno and Phil were a big part of that, and that's why I'm on board with trading them both.

I'd rather bring in some new blood and give it a shot than keep the status quo, sleepwalk through the season and end up with the same result.

Mr Wilson, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.

I award you no points......and may God have mercy on your soul.

I would have agreed with that last year but at no point during the season did this look like a team. I think Geno and Phil were a big part of that, and that's why I'm on board with trading them both.

I'd rather bring in some new blood and give it a shot than keep the status quo, sleepwalk through the season and end up with the same result.
- MacPatty

There is literally no trade involving Geno that keeps this team as competitive as they are now.

Mr Wilson, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.

I award you no points......and may God have mercy on your soul.
- LeafsPain54

How did the sarcasm fly over everyone’s head on this blog? I don’t think there’s ever been a more obvious joke.

How did the sarcasm fly over everyone’s head on this blog? I don’t think there’s ever been a more obvious joke.
- Victoro311

When I first read it I sped through not seeing the 420 thing, but new it wasn’t real when I saw Risto. RW poops on him as much as he does JJ.

There is literally no trade involving Geno that keeps this team as competitive as they are now.
- Rinosaur

Unless it's a stupid trade (i.e. McDavid for Malkin), I agree.

Unless it's a stupid trade (i.e. McDavid for Malkin), I agree.
- jmatchett383

Pretty much. The only way trading Geno makes any sense is if they went into a rebuild and even then you’re still not guaranteed to get a proper return.

When I first read it I sped through not seeing the 420 thing, but new it wasn’t real when I saw Risto. RW poops on him as much as he does JJ.
- Rinosaur

He also says pretty much every offseason that trading the core is dumb. This blog is basically the complete opposite of what he’s been saying for years and an obvious pot shot at the trade Malkin/Letang crowd

He also says pretty much every offseason that trading the core is dumb. This blog is basically the complete opposite of what he’s been saying for years and an obvious pot shot at the trade Malkin/Letang crowd
- Victoro311

Yeah, I definitely jumped the gun when I first read it, but how some didn’t figure it out is beside me.

I will say this: With the exception of Sidney Crosby and Alex Ovechkin, no one is the league presently should be considered truly "untouchable." Those 2 literally are untouchable because they truly icons of their time and team's, along with Mario Lemieux in Pittsburgh. Even Connor McDavid, for the right price, could be replaced on the ice in Edmonton with a return benefitting the Oilers and they'd be stupid not to do it (and Chiarelli is out). But these two players are more than their on-ice production.

Now, having said that, it doesn't mean that Pittsburgh should be actively shopping Malkin, Letang, or Kessel (especially the former 2), because it is highly unlikely that a deal would come along that will be to the benefit of the Penguins in the next 2-3 years, the generally accepted end of the Crosby-era window. However, if a team comes and blows you away with a deal (i.e. a younger #1 dman and a 1st for Letang) that can make the team better/not worse in the present and better for the future, then it should be considered. That is a very unlikely case.

Also, Penguins fans have to realize their good fortune. You were able to get two top-5 players for their entire primes as well as an elite (in his prime) defenseman. With them, you went to 4 Stanley Cup Finals in an 11-year window and won 3 of them. That's not normal. That's not how the NHL works. That is beyond fortunate. My point is that you've been beyond fortunate in having these 3 core players deliver you that success, and I feel that you owe it to them to allow them to remain as lifelong Penguins if they choose to do so. Yes, there will be diminishing returns, but I know that I'd gladly trade those diminishing returns for the results of the past 15 years as a Flyers' fan.

since letang has a modified NTC, would he be more interested in Montreal?

since letang has a modified NTC, would he be more interested in Montreal?
- i'mjustafan

Who’s replacing Letang?