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Forums :: Blog World :: Todd Cordell: Big-game hunting
Author Message
Todd Cordell
Location: Barrie, ON
Joined: 02.10.2014

Feb 15 @ 11:53 AM ET
Todd Cordell: Big-game hunting
dal_johnson
Calgary Flames
Joined: 03.09.2006

Feb 15 @ 12:04 PM ET
To Ottawa:
2019 First
Oliver Kylington
Michael Frolik
One of Austin Czarkik or Andrew Mangiapane

To Calgary:
Mark Stone

The First and Kylington are obvious.
Frolik because I don't know where he slots in if Stone is here. He is still a good player, and Ottawa still does need to make a cap floor. Also Calgary will need cap room this off season.
Czarnik or Mangiapane to give more to Ottawa.

All three players they are getting will be roster players that can impact now for Ottawa.

And to be honest if it is needed as a "convincer" for them to take Frolik, or to simply make sure that Winnipeg, Nashville, San Jose or Vegas doesn't get Stone I would put in both Czarnik and Mangiapane.

Really they could recall Dube to replace those two on the 4th line. Even Alan Quine in 9 games has as many goals as Mangiapane and Czarnik conbined. Or Lonberg may give some toughness needed in the playoffs.

Then pursue a bottom pairing vetran defenceman to add some playoff experience to the D-Core. I keep thinking Kronwall out of Detroit but not sure how that works with the cap. Or Adam McQuaid from the Rangers would be easier on the cap and has been through a lot of wars when he was with the Bruins.

And as much as everybody says goalie, goalie, goalie. I really don't see anybody better out there at a cost that won't cripple them for trying to prepare in any other area.

Don't do Panarin, there is at least a chance that Stone would resign. Panarin will never resign in Calgary.
Kevin R
Calgary Flames
Location: E5 = It aint gonna happen.
Joined: 02.10.2010

Feb 15 @ 12:24 PM ET
To Ottawa:
2019 First
Oliver Kylington
Michael Frolik
One of Austin Czarkik or Andrew Mangiapane

To Calgary:
Mark Stone

The First and Kylington are obvious.
Frolik because I don't know where he slots in if Stone is here. He is still a good player, and Ottawa still does need to make a cap floor. Also Calgary will need cap room this off season.
Czarnik or Mangiapane to give more to Ottawa.

All three players they are getting will be roster players that can impact now for Ottawa.

And to be honest if it is needed as a "convincer" for them to take Frolik, or to simply make sure that Winnipeg, Nashville, San Jose or Vegas doesn't get Stone I would put in both Czarnik and Mangiapane.

Really they could recall Dube to replace those two on the 4th line. Even Alan Quine in 9 games has as many goals as Mangiapane and Czarnik conbined. Or Lonberg may give some toughness needed in the playoffs.

Then pursue a bottom pairing vetran defenceman to add some playoff experience to the D-Core. I keep thinking Kronwall out of Detroit but not sure how that works with the cap.

And as much as everybody says goalie, goalie, goalie. I really don't see anybody better out there at a cost that won't cripple them for trying to prepare in any other area.

Don't do Panarin, there is at least a chance that Stone would resign. Panarin will never resign in Calgary.

- dal_johnson

Sorry Dal! I just cant get behind giving up this kind of package for a player we wont be able to fit if want to resign Tkachuk Riitch & Bennett. For a month & a half rental & one & hopefully more playoff rounds, it would be insane to give up this package on a rental. Dont know why the panic to go this all in when our main core players are signed for at least 3 more years going forward & are all very young in their low to mid twenties. If we are going to rent a top 6-9 forward, give up a 2020 2nd & prospect for Zuccarello. I personally dont think this team is a proven built for playoffs team yet.
Lets add a reasonable cost rental, see how these playoffs go & how this team performs & continue the building this summer.
tomburton99
New York Rangers
Location: NYR distrust, NJ
Joined: 07.13.2009

Feb 15 @ 12:32 PM ET
Todd Cordell: Big-game hunting
- ToddCordellCGY

If you miss out on Stone, you know you want Kevin Hayes. You know you do.
dal_johnson
Calgary Flames
Joined: 03.09.2006

Feb 15 @ 12:44 PM ET
Sorry Dal! I just cant get behind giving up this kind of package for a player we wont be able to fit if want to resign Tkachuk Riitch & Bennett. For a month & a half rental & one & hopefully more playoff rounds, it would be insane to give up this package on a rental. Dont know why the panic to go this all in when our main core players are signed for at least 3 more years going forward & are all very young in their low to mid twenties. If we are going to rent a top 6-9 forward, give up a 2020 2nd & prospect for Zuccarello. I personally dont think this team is a proven built for playoffs team yet.
Lets add a reasonable cost rental, see how these playoffs go & how this team performs & continue the building this summer.

- Kevin R


I completely get what you are saying. But I hate the idea of being currently the second best team in the league and not going after it on the hopes that they will get back to that level in the next couple years. If there were in a low playoff seed then I would agree. But there is not guarantees that they will be back at this level over the next few years.

And I believe that they can re-sign all those players and still have a shot at keeping Stone. The talk is that the Cap will be at around 83 million next year.

Smith's 4.25 million comes off the books, replace him with Gilles as a back up at 0.75 million.

And I say with Valimaki and Andersson developing as they have that they should trade Brodie at the draft to recoup the 1st round pick. That frees up another 4.65 million. And may be able to get into the mid first round with Brodie to get a high quality prospect. (Colorado and Buffalo both currently have a second 1st round pick in the mid range of the first round and Brodie would be very likely top pairing for them).

Sign Rittich at 4 mil, Bennett at 3 mil, Hathaway for under 1 mil. That leaves 16 million that can go between Tkachuk and Mark Stone. Remember Mark Stones current contract at 7.35 mil was a 1 year deal to get him to UFA status. On a longer deal he may take equal or less, and there is the "gets to play with his brother" factor in there too. Also the being on a team that will contend for years, not a contract to get to a point when he could get the hell out of the dumpster fire that Ottawa was last off season.

Then talk to me about the Window over the few years with that group.
Flames in 6 04
Calgary Flames
Location: Calgary, AB
Joined: 10.15.2007

Feb 15 @ 12:58 PM ET
To Ottawa:
2019 First
Oliver Kylington
Michael Frolik
One of Austin Czarkik or Andrew Mangiapane

To Calgary:
Mark Stone

The First and Kylington are obvious.
Frolik because I don't know where he slots in if Stone is here. He is still a good player, and Ottawa still does need to make a cap floor. Also Calgary will need cap room this off season.
Czarnik or Mangiapane to give more to Ottawa.

All three players they are getting will be roster players that can impact now for Ottawa.

And to be honest if it is needed as a "convincer" for them to take Frolik, or to simply make sure that Winnipeg, Nashville, San Jose or Vegas doesn't get Stone I would put in both Czarnik and Mangiapane.

Really they could recall Dube to replace those two on the 4th line. Even Alan Quine in 9 games has as many goals as Mangiapane and Czarnik conbined. Or Lonberg may give some toughness needed in the playoffs.

Then pursue a bottom pairing vetran defenceman to add some playoff experience to the D-Core. I keep thinking Kronwall out of Detroit but not sure how that works with the cap. Or Adam McQuaid from the Rangers would be easier on the cap and has been through a lot of wars when he was with the Bruins.

And as much as everybody says goalie, goalie, goalie. I really don't see anybody better out there at a cost that won't cripple them for trying to prepare in any other area.

Don't do Panarin, there is at least a chance that Stone would resign. Panarin will never resign in Calgary.

- dal_johnson


Kylington is the piece that I can't get behind. I think that we would regret moving him for a rental. The nucleus of this team is just coming into their window of opportunity, I'm not willing to risk that much this year.
Hunkulese
Calgary Flames
Location: QC
Joined: 09.30.2006

Feb 15 @ 1:11 PM ET
Smith's 4.25 million comes off the books, replace him with Gilles as a back up at 0.75 million.

- dal_johnson


Which Gilles are you talking about? Surely you're not talking about Jon Gilles unless you think being the worst goalie in the AHL earns you a promotion to the NHL.

Stone's also looking for at least 9 million a year.
LittleBroDougie
Calgary Flames
Joined: 03.03.2017

Feb 15 @ 1:48 PM ET
Think we could swindle a 2020 1st instead? I'd rather have a pick in the top 60 for the first time in 2 years.

Plus it's gotta be Kylington as the odd man out. Vali has more upside and Ras is becoming more and more instrumental to the 3rd pair.
TandA4Flames
Calgary Flames
Joined: 05.10.2010

Feb 15 @ 1:48 PM ET
I see everyones points here. I agree with dal that the flames are playing a great year and u can’t squander those opportunities because you never know when you can repeat this kind of year.
I don’t want to move Kylington or Vali either but reality is we won’t be able to protect all those dmen at the expansion . So moving kyl to an eastern ten now for a huge piece makes some sens. I think we could resign Stone but it is still a question. That’s why I’ve been saying going after guys with term. Like Toffoli or Coyle who both have 1 year remaining that ensures 2 cup runs with them with likely a lower acquisition cost. But getting Stone would be awesome. If somehow that 1st could be conditional. If he resigns the 1st if not 2 2nds in 2020-21.
TandA4Flames
Calgary Flames
Joined: 05.10.2010

Feb 15 @ 1:49 PM ET
Which Gilles are you talking about? Surely you're not talking about Jon Gilles unless you think being the worst goalie in the AHL earns you a promotion to the NHL.

Stone's also looking for at least 9 million a year.

- Hunkulese

And I agree that J gillies is not ready for an NHL role
tincup
Calgary Flames
Location: AB
Joined: 07.21.2006

Feb 15 @ 1:57 PM ET
I see everyones points here. I agree with dal that the flames are playing a great year and u can’t squander those opportunities because you never know when you can repeat this kind of year.
I don’t want to move Kylington or Vali either but reality is we won’t be able to protect all those dmen at the expansion . So moving kyl to an eastern ten now for a huge piece makes some sens. I think we could resign Stone but it is still a question. That’s why I’ve been saying going after guys with term. Like Toffoli or Coyle who both have 1 year remaining that ensures 2 cup runs with them with likely a lower acquisition cost. But getting Stone would be awesome. If somehow that 1st could be conditional. If he resigns the 1st if not 2 2nds in 2020-21.

- TandA4Flames


In the expansion draft, they have to protect Gio, then can protect 2 others. So even if they move Kylington, they'll still lose one of Ramus, Vali, or Hanifan. I think the price of a 1st plus one of our young D is too high. I probably think this because I think our biggest weakness is in goal not our top 6.
Octavarium
New York Islanders
Joined: 01.03.2007

Feb 15 @ 2:30 PM ET
I still think you guys need Craig Anderson. What if you added some salary dump to compensate for his extra year of salary.
Also, I'm pretty sure Dorion would take an 2020 or even 2021 first as part of your package for Stone (unprotected). He seems to be gearing up for that draft and not this one, which has essentially been gift wrapped for Colorado.
DEDDIE
Calgary Flames
Location: Calgary
Joined: 01.08.2019

Feb 15 @ 2:48 PM ET
Reality is:

We will likely be losing one of Gio, Hanifan, Rasmus or Kylington to Seattle in next years expansion draft for nothing as we can only protect 3. Valimaki and Dube are exempt from the expansion draft as their entry level deals run through 20/21.

At minimum Stone will cost a first and Kylington.

Frolik's value in trade is a 3rd round pick maybe a late 2nd but unlikely a 2nd.

Czarnik and Mangiapane have very little trade value to the Flames or Ottawa.


K-man25
Calgary Flames
Location: K Town
Joined: 09.02.2014

Feb 15 @ 3:15 PM ET
Which Gilles are you talking about? Surely you're not talking about Jon Gilles unless you think being the worst goalie in the AHL earns you a promotion to the NHL.

Stone's also looking for at least 9 million a year.

- Hunkulese

9 mil is crazy $ for Stone, I'm sure Tre will do his homework before blowing his load on a rental.
K-man25
Calgary Flames
Location: K Town
Joined: 09.02.2014

Feb 15 @ 3:17 PM ET
I completely get what you are saying. But I hate the idea of being currently the second best team in the league and not going after it on the hopes that they will get back to that level in the next couple years. If there were in a low playoff seed then I would agree. But there is not guarantees that they will be back at this level over the next few years.

And I believe that they can re-sign all those players and still have a shot at keeping Stone. The talk is that the Cap will be at around 83 million next year.

Smith's 4.25 million comes off the books, replace him with Gilles as a back up at 0.75 million.

And I say with Valimaki and Andersson developing as they have that they should trade Brodie at the draft to recoup the 1st round pick. That frees up another 4.65 million. And may be able to get into the mid first round with Brodie to get a high quality prospect. (Colorado and Buffalo both currently have a second 1st round pick in the mid range of the first round and Brodie would be very likely top pairing for them).

Sign Rittich at 4 mil, Bennett at 3 mil, Hathaway for under 1 mil. That leaves 16 million that can go between Tkachuk and Mark Stone. Remember Mark Stones current contract at 7.35 mil was a 1 year deal to get him to UFA status. On a longer deal he may take equal or less, and there is the "gets to play with his brother" factor in there too. Also the being on a team that will contend for years, not a contract to get to a point when he could get the hell out of the dumpster fire that Ottawa was last off season.

Then talk to me about the Window over the few years with that group.

- dal_johnson

Dal you forgot Frolik 4+ mil
Hunkulese
Calgary Flames
Location: QC
Joined: 09.30.2006

Feb 15 @ 3:26 PM ET
9 mil is crazy $ for Stone, I'm sure Tre will do his homework before blowing his load on a rental.
- K-man25


Last year, people much smarter than me predicted he would get 8.5X8, and he's taken his game up another level this year. All NHL contracts are crazy $, but Stone is definitely worth 9 million with the market the way it is.
dal_johnson
Calgary Flames
Joined: 03.09.2006

Feb 15 @ 3:51 PM ET
Dal you forgot Frolik 4+ mil
- K-man25


I was considering him already gone in the trade to get Stone in the first place.
FlamesFan1230
Calgary Flames
Joined: 02.27.2006

Feb 15 @ 4:04 PM ET
Tkachuck and Stone have 57 points a piece, say if we get Stone is it even possible to get them both under $10M. I actually agree with Hunkulese for once that these contracts are getting ridiculous. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
DuranDuran
Calgary Flames
Location: Quito
Joined: 09.29.2015

Feb 15 @ 4:26 PM ET
Tkachuck and Stone have 57 points a piece, say if we get Stone is it even possible to get them both under $10M. I actually agree with Hunkulese for once that these contracts are getting ridiculous. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
- FlamesFan1230


I agree, but you never know. I remember when we signed Stone's brother part of the reason they wanted to come to the areas was they had family and friends here.

I cannot believe we would give up a first and a really good Dman with upside for a 1 year rental.

I remember seeing an interview with Tre and he talked about his years with the Coyotes and how they always had to try and be smart with managing cash.

If he can manage money he can manage cash. Gotta believe that a guy like Manta, Coyle, or Toffoli are also on the radar. Might not cost near as much as Stone and could all bring some scoring to the 2nd line.

Lazar just recalled.
jessehub
Calgary Flames
Location: BC
Joined: 06.25.2010

Feb 15 @ 5:11 PM ET
Finally Lazar recalled. Kid earned another look. Neal out for a denture install?
Kevin R
Calgary Flames
Location: E5 = It aint gonna happen.
Joined: 02.10.2010

Feb 15 @ 5:58 PM ET
In the expansion draft, they have to protect Gio, then can protect 2 others. So even if they move Kylington, they'll still lose one of Ramus, Vali, or Hanifan. I think the price of a 1st plus one of our young D is too high. I probably think this because I think our biggest weakness is in goal not our top 6.
- tincup

The last expansion draft we really didnt have much to lose nor protect. We were hoping they take Brouwer but took Engellend who was going to go over anyway.
This expansion draft coming, me thinks Treliving is going to have to make an extortion deal with Seattle to take a designated player. I guess you cross that bridge at that time. We absolutely do not or should not trade away valuable assets for short term rentals because we dont think we can keep them anyway.
K-man25
Calgary Flames
Location: K Town
Joined: 09.02.2014

Feb 15 @ 6:28 PM ET
Finally Lazar recalled. Kid earned another look. Neal out for a denture install?
- jessehub

Season saved! Whew!
jessehub
Calgary Flames
Location: BC
Joined: 06.25.2010

Feb 15 @ 8:10 PM ET
Season saved! Whew!
- K-man25


Was it ever lost? We’re 1st in the west...but ok
Hunkulese
Calgary Flames
Location: QC
Joined: 09.30.2006

Feb 15 @ 11:10 PM ET
Yep, Oilers are done.

Trade the next 10 firsts and Neal for McDavid?
K-man25
Calgary Flames
Location: K Town
Joined: 09.02.2014

Feb 16 @ 1:14 AM ET
Was it ever lost? We’re 1st in the west...but ok
- jessehub

Just Fukien with ya. I'm excited to see if he can contribute. He'll take Mangiapanis spot once Beal returns.
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