Intent to injure doesn't have to be a rational thought. He swung his stick at a guys face. That is intent to injure.
- Feds91Stammer

He wasnt looking. I dont think he intentionally tried to swing it there.

So Copter should get 1 game too?
- Feds91Stammer

No. In 2009, SCF Game 2, Malkin was given an instigator for starting a fight with Zetterberg with 19 seconds left to go. Per the rulebook, instigating a fight with under 5 minutes to go carries an automatic 1 game suspension. This is what happened when Adams got the instigator with Hartnell in Game 3, 2012. But when it happened to Malkin in the SCF, the NHL decided, "Nah, we'll just waive that in this case." Malkin went on to have 3 primary assists in the following game.

So, yeah, an automatic suspension doesn't mean jack.

He wasnt looking. I dont think he intentionally tried to swing it there.
- MattStrat

So because he carelessly swings his stick at head level without checking to see if anybody is nearby, all is well? I thought that the player is responsible for his stick at all times.

So because he carelessly swings his stick at head level without checking to see if anybody is nearby, all is well?
- jmatchett383

No man. Ive said repeatedly he should never swing his stick like that haha.

Not necessarily man. I dont how many times Ive been playing hockey and frustrated who Im playing against and they have slashed me or swung a stick at me in frustration. A lot of times these are good buddies of mine. They dont want me injured and it was never the intent. Just like Geno, it was a split second response in frustration. He wasn't looking at the guy either.

I agree he should never ever swing a stick like that but to think or automatically assume he had intent to injure in a fraction of a second, I dont know.
- MattStrat

There’s a difference between premeditated and intent to injure. I believe You can have intent to injure in split second responses and that be different than a premeditated predatory hit. The fact that he wasn’t even looking at the guy shows that he didn’t give a poop what happened and just swung his stick violently. If he had hit him trying to swing for the puck, I’d say no intent but he swung his stick to specifically hit him in the face. If you don’t believe that’s intent, you’re in bananalands.

Geno to Yohe (Athletic)

“I’m not trying to hit his face… I know it's dirty, but I missed, my stick (did) not touch his helmet or shoulder” Malkin said. "He just like dived and the referee give me five minutes. Nothing like dangerous, (he's) not bleeding, nothing. I know I gave them a five-minute power play, but it's my fault for sure. Play smart next time.”

“I didn’t hit him in the face,” Malkin said. “If I had touched him in the face, for sure, I would get suspended. It’s a high stick, but it’s not like I broke his face. I think I won’t get suspended.”

I dont think he tried to hit him there. I think he was trying to wack at his body or should area. Again, it shouldnt happen, but it was a split second response out of frustration of being cross checked in the back then punched in the back of the head by same guy.
- MattStrat

So either way he tried to hit him with his stick aka intent to injure.

No man. Ive said repeatedly he should never swing his stick like that haha.
- MattStrat

Then let me ask this: why did he wildly swing his stick? If you swing your stick like that, no matters where it hits, you are intending to inure a player. You could 2-hand a guy in the knees and injure him just as much as you could the head.

No. In 2009, SCF Game 2, Malkin was given an instigator for starting a fight with Zetterberg with 19 seconds left to go. Per the rulebook, instigating a fight with under 5 minutes to go carries an automatic 1 game suspension. This is what happened when Adams got the instigator with Hartnell in Game 3, 2012. But when it happened to Malkin in the SCF, the NHL decided, "Nah, we'll just waive that in this case." Malkin went on to have 3 primary assists in the following game.

So, yeah, an automatic suspension doesn't mean jack.
- jmatchett383

Why did you have to remind me of this? I was planning on having a good day.

He wasnt looking. I dont think he intentionally tried to swing it there.
- MattStrat

Did he intentionally swing his stick at Raffl?

Did he intentionally swing his stick at Raffl?
- Feds91Stammer

yes. prob didn't mean to hit him in the head per se. but hit him nonetheless. the consequence shouldn't be based off the injury or raffl's reaction. 1 game suspension likely

Geno to Yohe (Athletic)
- DeflatedPucks

Wow...I would have thought Malkin would say, "Yeah, I wanted hit him in the face with my stick because I was mad, so I should be suspended."

Because that's what players usually say in cases like this.

So, let me ask this:

Let's say Malkin doesn't get suspended because he didn't hit Raffl (at least not hard, if at all).

What kind of message does that send? "Hey, you can wildly flail your stick around all you want, unless you hit someone." I'd rather the message be, "Wildly flailing your stick around like that is never ever tolerated." That way, you don't have to wait for a player to have his face bashed in with a stick before action is taken.

That goes for every player on every team.

Wow...I would have thought Malkin would say, "Yeah, I wanted hit him in the face with my stick because I was mad, so I should be suspended."

Because that's what players usually say in cases like this.
- jmatchett383

"I wanted Bjugstad and Pearson to hold him down across the stanchion, then the rest of the bench would prostate in prayer for raffl's soul, and i would deliver the final blow"

Why did you have to remind me of this? I was planning on having a good day.
- Feds91Stammer

Just saying, the league has the power to waive "automatic" suspensions if they want to.

Then let me ask this: why did he wildly swing his stick? If you swing your stick like that, no matters where it hits, you are intending to inure a player. You could 2-hand a guy in the knees and injure him just as much as you could the head.
- jmatchett383

Exactly.

There’s a difference between premeditated and intent to injure. I believe You can have intent to injure in split second responses and that be different than a premeditated predatory hit. The fact that he wasn’t even looking at the guy shows that he didn’t give a poop what happened and just swung his stick violently. If he had hit him trying to swing for the puck, I’d say no intent but he swung his stick to specifically hit him in the face. If you don’t believe that’s intent, you’re in bananalands.
- j.boyd919

How do you know that for sure?

Ive been in many instances like this myself with a frustrated retaliatory stick coming back at me. I actually have a scar on my chin, 4 stitches from this kinda thing. He apologized over and over, he meant to hit my shoulder. Whats your basis for KNOWING for sure that Malkin wanted to hit him in the face and injure him when he wasnt even looking?

Also worth mentioning is he didnt hit him in the face or injure him.

No. In 2009, SCF Game 2, Malkin was given an instigator for starting a fight with Zetterberg with 19 seconds left to go. Per the rulebook, instigating a fight with under 5 minutes to go carries an automatic 1 game suspension. This is what happened when Adams got the instigator with Hartnell in Game 3, 2012. But when it happened to Malkin in the SCF, the NHL decided, "Nah, we'll just waive that in this case." Malkin went on to have 3 primary assists in the following game.

So, yeah, an automatic suspension doesn't mean jack.
- jmatchett383

Playoffs. NHL has admitted that a game suspension in the postseason equals 5 regular season games.

1 != 5

How do you know that for sure?

Ive been in many instances like this myself with a frustrated retaliatory stick coming back at me. I actually have a scar on my chin, 4 stitches from this kinda thing. He apologized over and over, he meant to hit my shoulder. Whats your basis for KNOWING for sure that Malkin wanted to hit him in the face and injure him when he wasnt even looking?

Also worth mentioning is he didnt hit him in the face or injure him.
- MattStrat

Are you really that naive? He swung his stick at his face. Are you saying Malkin as poor stick control or hand-eye coordination?

So, let me ask this:

Let's say Malkin doesn't get suspended because he didn't hit Raffl (at least not hard, if at all).

What kind of message does that send? "Hey, you can wildly flail your stick around all you want, unless you hit someone." I'd rather the message be, "Wildly flailing your stick around like that is never ever tolerated." That way, you don't have to wait for a player to have his face bashed in with a stick before action is taken.

That goes for every player on every team.
- jmatchett383

It sends ANOTHER message of the player safety department being a joke. Which should no longer surprise anyone or even hold any weight to sway how players act.

Then let me ask this: why did he wildly swing his stick? If you swing your stick like that, no matters where it hits, you are intending to inure a player. You could 2-hand a guy in the knees and injure him just as much as you could the head.
- jmatchett383

Very hard to injure anyone with a one handed swing like that when they're in full gear. The exposed areas of face and neck are the best chance of injury at all.

How do you know that for sure?

Ive been in many instances like this myself with a frustrated retaliatory stick coming back at me. I actually have a scar on my chin, 4 stitches from this kinda thing. He apologized over and over, he meant to hit my shoulder. Whats your basis for KNOWING for sure that Malkin wanted to hit him in the face and injure him when he wasnt even looking?

Also worth mentioning is he didnt hit him in the face or injure him.
- MattStrat

The guy who apologized: why do you think he hit you in the face with his stick? I'm not saying it was premeditated or that he didn't feel bad later. He got probably got pissed, lost his cool, and wanted to get even/exact revenge at that moment. That would classify as intent to injure.

Are you really that naive? He swung his stick at his face. Are you saying Malkin as poor stick control or hand-eye coordination?
- Feds91Stammer

In that instance frustrated towards the end of the a shift and gassed while not looking, yeah a bit uncoordinated with those factors.

Very hard to injure anyone with a one handed swing like that when they're in full gear. The exposed areas of face and neck are the best chance of injury at all.
- MattStrat

Then again, why did he swing his stick about like that? He probably INTENDED to hit Raffl.

It sends ANOTHER message of the player safety department being a joke. Which should no longer surprise anyone or even hold any weight to sway how players act.
- Guile

Well, yes, that's true.