Like I said, it's a tool that can help, but I usually don't need a chart to tell me if a player is playing well or poorly. When I see Luke Schenn sluggishly skate to a corner dump, blindly throw it up the wall, get hemmed in his own zone for 40 seconds on a constant basis, I don't think a chart will tell me anything I don't know.
- jmatchett383

Well the chart in this case imo is not to tell you he is bad but to tell you how bad. Like is he just bad compared to avg NHL play or is he shouldn't be on an NHL roster bad.

It's just evidence that further builds your case to come to the most accurate evaluation as possible.

Trade back Daley too.
- RafiDRW

x4

x4
- Feds91Stammer

Do we make a good trade partner for Pittsburgh? I open this up for everyone, as well.

Maybe a couple fresh starts for some players on each team

JJ been that horrid?
- RafiDRW

Understatement. I was just hoping he would be at least average here with protected minutes. He's not even that. Still can't comprehend why JR would bid against himself and give him that deal.

Hopefully he will be playing Seattle in a couple of years.

Understatement. I was just hoping he would be at least average here with protected minutes. He's not even that. Still can't comprehend why JR would bid against himself and give him that deal.

Hopefully he will be playing Seattle in a couple of years.
- acdc1206

JJ for Daley and DeKeyser. Make it happen.

Well the chart in this case imo is not to tell you he is bad but to tell you how bad. Like is he just bad compared to avg NHL play or is he shouldn't be on an NHL roster bad.

It's just evidence that further builds your case to come to the most accurate evaluation as possible.
- Feds91Stammer

Honestly, to be truthful, I just don't care enough to distinguish between the bottom 10% and bottom 2% of NHL players. I watch enough, and have watched enough, to be able to tell if a player's bad. The difference between being regular very bad or extra very bad doesn't matter to me.

The best use of analytics that I have is when it applies to players that I haven't seen much, as I have nothing else to go on.

Like I said, it's a tool that can help, but I usually don't need a chart to tell me if a player is playing well or poorly. When I see Luke Schenn sluggishly skate to a corner dump, blindly throw it up the wall, get hemmed in his own zone for 40 seconds on a constant basis, I don't think a chart will tell me anything I don't know.
- jmatchett383

Right. And I get that. And the casual fan does need these charts. But for those who actually want to learn more about the intricacies of the game, I think they are very helpful. While you may feel you don’t need them or you (or others don’t value them), they can be very valuable. They can confirm or deny eye test bias.

For example, I thought Guentzel had a hand full of opportunities last night and Gibson robbed him a bunch... but when I looked into it, Guentzel only had 2 shots. They were both good chances but I could have sworn he had more chances.

Honestly, to be truthful, I just don't care enough to distinguish between the bottom 10% and bottom 2% of NHL players. I watch enough, and have watched enough, to be able to tell if a player's bad. The difference between being regular very bad or extra very bad doesn't matter to me.

The best use of analytics that I have is when it applies to players that I haven't seen much, as I have nothing else to go on.
- jmatchett383

Whoops. Tried to hit the quotes and accidentally hit the flag on this.

But yes to the bolded. That is the best use of analytics I think across the board. Although I still do like to use it to check on players I have watched on a regular basis. I like to see if the numbers align with what I’m seeing. I think it helps “train the eye” so to say.

Right. And I get that. And the casual fan does need these charts. But for those who actually want to learn more about the intricacies of the game, I think they are very helpful. While you may feel you don’t need them or you (or others don’t value them), they can be very valuable. They can confirm or deny eye test bias.

For example, I thought Guentzel had a hand full of opportunities last night and Gibson robbed him a bunch... but when I looked into it, Guentzel only had 2 shots. They were both good chances but I could have sworn he had more chances.
- j.boyd919

Right. But just because he only had 2 shots (I assume we're talking SOG) doesn't mean that he wasn't pushing the offense, it just means that he wasn't able to turn them into shots. If you can carry the puck through the NZ and back in defenders, but you (or the person you pass to) are having trouble getting shots through, it still means you're pressuring the other team.

Again, I'm not discounting stats. But I just don't think they are more or less valuable than actually watching the game, because they generally correlate with each other. The difference is that one is abstract ("he played really well") and the other is calculated ("he was a +7 HDCF%").

Right. But just because he only had 2 shots (I assume we're talking SOG) doesn't mean that he wasn't pushing the offense, it just means that he wasn't able to turn them into shots. If you can carry the puck through the NZ and back in defenders, but you (or the person you pass to) are having trouble getting shots through, it still means you're pressuring the other team.

Again, I'm not discounting stats. But I just don't think they are more or less valuable than actually watching the game, because they generally correlate with each other. The difference is that one is abstract ("he played really well") and the other is calculated ("he was a +7 HDCF%").
- jmatchett383

That’s where zone entries/zone defense, royal road passes, primary assists, etc. come into play. But yes they all do correlate with each other. I would never argue otherwise.

That’s where zone entries/zone defense, royal road passes, primary assists, etc. come into play. But yes they all do correlate with each other. I would never argue otherwise.
- j.boyd919

What in the world is a royal road pass?

What in the world is a royal road pass?
- RafiDRW

That's when the prince's entourage violently beats the peasants out of the way as they carry his palanquin down the road.

That's when the prince's entourage violently beats the peasants out of the way as they carry his palanquin down the road.
- jmatchett383

I thought it was when you’re allowed to cheat on your spouse as long as you’re in a car on the way to Buckingham Palace?

What in the world is a royal road pass?
- RafiDRW

https://www.omha.net/news...ice-you-ve-never-heard-of

^^check it.

That's when the prince's entourage violently beats the peasants out of the way as they carry his palanquin down the road.
- jmatchett383

I don’t think I want to know the real answer after this beauty.

https://www.omha.net/news_article/show/486107-the-most-important-line-on-the-ice-you-ve-never-heard-of

^^check it.
- j.boyd919

Wow. Thanks Feds/me!

I liked when Malkin was obviously clipped with the high stick last night and the pittsburgh broadcast didnt mute the players...one of the ducks "let's see the blood...let's see the blood...oh that's right there is none".

It was funny because I enjoy some good trash talk...and also because it was so obvious he was hit in the face because his face was all red and swollen.

trade freeze is tomorrow.

only question is whether Brassard for Jeff Carter happens tomorrow or after the holidays.

trade freeze is tomorrow.

only question is whether Brassard for Jeff Carter happens tomorrow or after the holidays.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Huh?

Huh?
- Rinosaur

Haha just being sarcastic because Brassard being traded feels inevitable... but GMJR is the kind of guy to make a move right at the trade freeze date.... and I can see how Brassard for Carter makes sense...

Haha just being sarcastic because Brassard being traded feels inevitable... but GMJR is the kind of guy to make a move right at the trade freeze date.... and I can see how Brassard for Carter makes sense...
- YouMeAndDupuis9

No thank you. I like Carter and think he’d be good here, his term is way too much.

Right. And I get that. And the casual fan does need these charts. But for those who actually want to learn more about the intricacies of the game, I think they are very helpful. While you may feel you don’t need them or you (or others don’t value them), they can be very valuable. They can confirm or deny eye test bias.

For example, I thought Guentzel had a hand full of opportunities last night and Gibson robbed him a bunch... but when I looked into it, Guentzel only had 2 shots. They were both good chances but I could have sworn he had more chances.
- j.boyd919

I actually think advanced stats do more harm than good to learn about the intracacies of the game, because it is impossible to tally them...like 87's edgework to hold the puck, or the way 08 rips shots throw defenders feet, the millisec. he moves right and the goalie starts to open up. but they are definitely best used to confirm or deny bias, which is why they are so problematic because they are created from biases, and all of them are individuallized to one small static aspect of a fluid game.

I actually think advanced stats do more harm than good to learn about the intracacies of the game, because it is impossible to tally them...like 87's edgework to hold the puck, or the way 08 rips shots throw defenders feet, the millisec. he moves right and the goalie starts to open up. but they are definitely best used to confirm or deny bias, which is why they are so problematic because they are created from biases, and all of them are individuallized to one small static aspect of a fluid game.
- joecool2931

Except they are not.

They track offensive zone time w/puck: P Kane, Barzal, and McDavid are usually the top 3.

Ovi usually leads the league in iCF and shots so there's that too.

I actually think advanced stats do more harm than good to learn about the intracacies of the game, because it is impossible to tally them...like 87's edgework to hold the puck, or the way 08 rips shots throw defenders feet, the millisec. he moves right and the goalie starts to open up. but they are definitely best used to confirm or deny bias, which is why they are so problematic because they are created from biases, and all of them are individuallized to one small static aspect of a fluid game.
- joecool2931

I honestly don’t even understand this comment. What are you trying to say? That people who study statistics are unable to comprehend individual players traits? Because if that’s what you’re saying, then you couldn’t be more wrong.

No thank you. I like Carter and think he’d be good here, his term is way too much.
- Rinosaur

Term isn't great but that's why we could get him for Brassard. I guess its a matter of whether you think he's rapidly declining or is playing on a crap team like Pearson was.