But do the Pens want to move JO? We don't know. Last we knew they feel he has a pretty high ceiling.
- Rinosaur

You can't trade the next Chara away.

I don't know a single person who thinks they are the be-all and end-all.
- j.boyd919

I can think of two on this site.

Yes, but those changes JR made over the last season and change has hindered what Sully had as our identity for the cup runs. Youth and speed... we've gotten older and replaced players with slower versions. JR has not given Sully the tools to work with for how he succeeded in the prior years in my opinion.
- Guile

Yea, GMJR hasn't even come close do doing a single thing right in the last year and a half. That fist Sully year, I don't really think GMJR had much to do with the injection of Youth, I think it was mostly injuries and Sully trusting them. He did help with the speed a bit ( hagelin and Daley). But I think most of the success of this team in recent years was due to Sully his trust in the youth. (frank) that 15-16 team was good.

I can think of two on this site.
- jmatchett383

Tanner and RW?

You can't trade the next Chara away.
- Feds91Stammer

You're right. JR will regret that. Thwarted again.

I wouldn't refer to an opponent that has more Ws and pts than your team as lowly simply because they're a bottom feeder in a particular stat. Prime example of statistical vs. practical reality. After yesterday, Ducks are currently 2nd in Pac, 3pts behind Wpg, Cgy, and Nsh. As a team, they've been more productive throughout the season than the Pens. Makes you wonder, why/ how a terrible team like ANA is able to convert pts while, a team like Pens (who are much better) bleed points.

i.e. that is beyond saying Gibson for the Hart

I can think of two on this site.
- jmatchett383

Both of those two watch the games as well.

I still believe that the biggest problem is how GMJR constructed the defense and that replacing Brass or any other forward isn’t going to help the problem.
- j.boyd919

Would also add the fact that top 6 is aging (and probably slowing a bit). At the same time, we haven't seen an influx of youth, speed, energy, etc.. The trend in the league has been younger and faster. I think the style of game the Pens played and the pace they once pushed is no longer that much of an advantage. Many teams have followed suit and skate/ play fast(er).

Part of me believes the Pens are trying to pace themselves. They've been there/ done that, and understand its a marathon and not a sprint. Hang in there , get healthy, and peak at the right time.

Does anyone stick out to you?
- Thorny87

Honestly I’m not sure. Just looking at the TSN trade bait list...

https://www.tsn.ca/tsn-ho...-trade-bait-list-1.203546

Parayko, Muzzin, Faulk, Pesce, Martinez are names on that list. I think Muzzin is the only LD out of the 5.

I’d have to dive a little deeper when I get home tonight to see who I’d think would a good fit.

Would also add the fact that top 6 is aging (and probably slowing a bit). At the same time, we haven't seen an influx of youth, speed, energy, etc.. The trend in the league has been younger and faster. I think the style of game the Pens played and the pace they once pushed is no longer that much of an advantage. Many teams have followed suit and skate/ play fast(er).

Part of me believes the Pens are trying to pace themselves. They've been there/ done that, and understand its a marathon and not a sprint. Hang in there , get healthy, and peak at the right time.
- HiSticking

Well the Pens don’t play that style anymore and haven’t since 15-16. That is the problem.

Both of those two watch the games as well.
- j.boyd919

They do watch the games. And then use only "fancy stats" to evaluate the game/players. You think that people who have been watching hockey all of their lives can actually evaluate a player or a team based on what they see?

I wasn't including RW in this, FWIW.

They do watch the games. And then use only "fancy stats" to evaluate the game/players.

I wasn't including RW in this, FWIW.
- jmatchett383

Who are your 2?

Who are your 2?
- Feds91Stammer

Tanner and Feanor

Edit: Feanor will sometimes reference things that he observes, but mostly drops in to show a chart or comparison to prove someone wrong.

Tanner and Feanor
- jmatchett383

who?

Tanner and Feanor

Edit: Feanor will sometimes reference things that he observes, but mostly drops in to show a chart or comparison to prove someone wrong.
- jmatchett383

Who’s Feanor?

who?
- Feds91Stammer

Dude on the Flyers board.

They do watch the games. And then use only "fancy stats" to evaluate the game/players. You think that people who have been watching hockey all of their lives can actually evaluate a player or a team based on what they see?

I wasn't including RW in this, FWIW.
- jmatchett383

I think that they can evaluate hockey successfully, but I think they are also limiting their evaluations if they choose to ignore statistics (which I don’t believe any do). I think it’s safe to say that at the very least 80-90% of scouts/GMs/coaches use some form of statistics when evaluating players.

Dude on the Flyers board.
- jmatchett383

Oooh is he their writer or just a poster?

Edit: obviously not their writer. That’s Metzer lol whoops.

I think that they can evaluate hockey successfully, but I think they are also limiting their evaluations if they choose to ignore statistics (which I don’t believe any do). I think it’s safe to say that at the very least 80-90% of scouts/GMs/coaches use some form of statistics when evaluating players.
- j.boyd919

I think they (analytics) are a tool that have value, but to me, they're usually seem to be a reflection of what I know by watching the game. It's impossible to watch every player every game, so analytics can help evaluate a player, but they only tell a portion of the story.

Oooh is he their writer or just a poster?
- j.boyd919

Just a poster.

Ek's blog reads a lot like 'please stop bullying me and telling me i'm wrong with all of my fake rumors. the internet is scary.' to me

I think they (analytics) are a tool that have value, but to me, they're usually seem to be a reflection of what I know by watching the game. It's impossible to watch every player every game, so analytics can help evaluate a player, but they only tell a portion of the story.
- jmatchett383

Also, one of the biggest things that us fans don’t have at our disposal is whatever in house analytics that are being cooked up. I read an article on the athletic last year about Torts and his take on analytics and how he and his video guys do it.

While we have website they scrape NHL game logs for data to use very elementary definitions of scoring chances and high danger chances (but it is the best we as fans have access to), these teams have multiple video guys with team definitions of high danger chances and how players get assigned them.

But even so, a lot of the statistics we do have (for the most part, in my opinion) do back up opinions/thoughts/reports on players. I know everyone says “oh a chart won’t tell you how bad a player is, blah blah” but I do think that when you look at as much data as you can on top of watching players play, the chart really does tell a lot of the picture.

Ek's blog reads a lot like 'please stop bullying me and telling me i'm wrong with all of my fake rumors. the internet is scary.' to me
- Guile

Also, one of the biggest things that us fans don’t have at our disposal is whatever in house analytics that are being cooked up. I read an article on the athletic last year about Torts and his take on analytics and how he and his video guys do it.

While we have website they scrape NHL game logs for data to use very elementary definitions of scoring chances and high danger chances (but it is the best we as fans have access to), these teams have multiple video guys with team definitions of high danger chances and how players get assigned them.

But even so, a lot of the statistics we do have (for the most part, in my opinion) do back up opinions/thoughts/reports on players. I know everyone says “oh a chart won’t tell you how bad a player is, blah blah” but I do think that when you look at as much data as you can on top of watching players play, the chart really does tell a lot of the picture.
- j.boyd919

Like I said, it's a tool that can help, but I usually don't need a chart to tell me if a player is playing well or poorly. When I see Luke Schenn sluggishly skate to a corner dump, blindly throw it up the wall, get hemmed in his own zone for 40 seconds on a constant basis, I don't think a chart will tell me anything I don't know.

x2
- Feds91Stammer

Trade back Daley too.