Zaitsev catches a lot of heat, but I trust him in Toronto's own end more than Gardiner. Guy spends like 90% of his life on the PK or defensive zone starts, and he's far more reliable defensively than almost anyone on the blueline not named rielly.

His game isn't flashy, but he fits a serious area of need in Toronto.
- joel878

Zaitsev is terrible compared to Gardiner...and I don’t even like Gardiner that much. I don’t think I’ve seen Z hit a pass since his 1st season.

A joke would be to give up their 2nd best D and a top line winger for Paryko. Id give up Nylander and something or Gards and something but not both.
- Garnie

Saying Gards is second best dman is not saying much when u have the worst dman in the league. He wouldn’t even be a top 4 dman on 95% of the teams in the nhl.

A joke would be to give up their 2nd best D and a top line winger for Paryko. Id give up Nylander and something or Gards and something but not both.
- Garnie

Also gard is ufa and value is significantly drops for that. Also u will be getting a top prospect who will be under rookie contract and can play in top six. He is on same level as Kapanen if given opportunity.

If I'm Dubas I dont trade Grundstrom. He brings something the Leafs currently don't have and are going to need. I would look at Bracco as an alternate option.

Saying Gards is second best dman is not saying much when u have the worst dman in the league. He wouldn’t even be a top 4 dman on 95% of the teams in the nhl.
- Bigdog1991

Ok, name me some teams that wouldn’t put Gardiner in at 4.

Also gard is ufa and value is significantly drops for that. Also u will be getting a top prospect who will be under rookie contract and can play in top six. He is on same level as Kapanen if given opportunity.
- Bigdog1991

True, more talking if he was signed.

IMO I’d rather keep Gards and Willie over Paryko if we’re trying to win now.

Ok, name me some teams that wouldn’t put Gardiner in at 4.
- Garnie

The problem with gard is he good offensive puck moving dman but liability in his own zone. He will be best used as 3rd pairing and power play qb. So anytime playing him in top four will struggle.

That being said in his own division sabres for sure. Dahlin is second pair LHD and he is not better then him now or in future.
Bruins have chara and Krug. Krug is similar. Tampa has Herman and Mcdonough. So that is a hard no. Panthers have handle and matheson. Matheson is good young dman with more points then hard on very bad team. Detroit has kronwall and choloswki when healthy kronwall is better and the other is young rookie already better in both ends. Ottawa and Montréal are just bad teams so I will give you them.

The problem with gard is he good offensive puck moving dman but liability in his own zone. He will be best used as 3rd pairing and power play qb. So anytime playing him in top four will struggle.

That being said in his own division sabres for sure. Dahlin is second pair LHD and he is not better then him now or in future.
Bruins have chara and Krug. Krug is similar. Tampa has Herman and Mcdonough. So that is a hard no. Panthers have handle and matheson. Matheson is good young dman with more points then hard on very bad team. Detroit has kronwall and choloswki when healthy kronwall is better and the other is young rookie already better in both ends. Ottawa and Montréal are just bad teams so I will give you them.
- Bigdog1991

Well looks like the bad team is just St-Louis right now

The problem with gard is he good offensive puck moving dman but liability in his own zone. He will be best used as 3rd pairing and power play qb. So anytime playing him in top four will struggle.

That being said in his own division sabres for sure. Dahlin is second pair LHD and he is not better then him now or in future.
Bruins have chara and Krug. Krug is similar. Tampa has Herman and Mcdonough. So that is a hard no. Panthers have handle and matheson. Matheson is good young dman with more points then hard on very bad team. Detroit has kronwall and choloswki when healthy kronwall is better and the other is young rookie already better in both ends. Ottawa and Montréal are just bad teams so I will give you them.
- Bigdog1991

edit: Buffalo - If Dahlen is #2 LHD...who's the #1? Just curious...

Very few teams would have him on the 3rd pairing....maybe Nashville? Most teams would slide him to the right side if needed...he carry's Zaitsev as a partner....I hated Gards for years but he's improved quite a bit over the last few years.

Nylander and a signed Gardiner would be way too much for Paryko IMO...i'd rather wait until the TDL and grab a UFA for cheaper like the Caps did with Shattenkirk.

edit: Buffalo - If Dahlen is #2 LHD...who's the #1? Just curious...

Very few teams would have him on the 3rd pairing....maybe Nashville? Most teams would slide him to the right side if needed...he carry's Zaitsev as a partner....I hated Gards for years but he's improved quite a bit over the last few years.

Nylander and a signed Gardiner would be way too much for Paryko IMO...i'd rather wait until the TDL and grab a UFA for cheaper like the Caps did with Shattenkirk.
- Garnie

How about this deal:
Sobotka & Bogosian for Kadri.

How about this deal:
Sobotka & Bogosian for Kadri.
- Tragically Buffalo

nah, pass thanks.

Both seem to spend more time in their own zone, plus having Matthews/Tavares/Kadri down the middle is a pretty good thing.

As I said I hope the Leafs wait and grab someone at the TDL without having to subtract too much or anything from the fowards.

Zaitsev is terrible compared to Gardiner...and I don’t even like Gardiner that much. I don’t think I’ve seen Z hit a pass since his 1st season.
- Garnie

Yeah, Gardiner is far better than Zaitsev. And Gardiner murders Zaitsec in advanced stats.

Zaitsev is terrible compared to Gardiner...and I don’t even like Gardiner that much. I don’t think I’ve seen Z hit a pass since his 1st season.
- Garnie

Yeah, Gardiner is far better than Zaitsev. And Gardiner murders Zaitsec in advanced stats.

Yeah, Gardiner is far better than Zaitsev. And Gardiner murders Zaitsec in advanced stats.
- RogerRoeper

Almost everyone murders Z in advanced stats.

He has looked a little better the last few game though....seems Hainsey is struggling a bit now too.

Look at your defense now. He will be easily the second best dman on team. And not even close and arguably better then Riley in certain situations. And most importantly he is RHD which is very hard to find. You guys should know. Stop over valuing your own players. And under valuing others. Gard is offensive dman who is not producing offense on one of the best offensive teams in league. How do u think he will do on average team? Same goes with paryko he was good as a rookie because he played on good team and his team now is terrible. On leafs he will be a stud.
- Bigdog1991

Not really.

You're the only overvaluing Parayko in my opinion.

Saying Gards is second best dman is not saying much when u have the worst dman in the league. He wouldn’t even be a top 4 dman on 95% of the teams in the nhl.
- Bigdog1991

You really are out to lunch. Not much more needs to be said.

Why would the Leafs trade Nylander and Gardiner for Parayko and Kyrou? Because they win that trade hands down and it’s not even close. The Blues would be idiots to make that trade.

Actually somewhere you’re wrong in every way. Kyro will be better than will, parayko will drastically improve the D and therefore improve the goalies numbers.

You sir are suffering from leafdelusion

Actually somewhere you’re wrong in every way. Kyro will be better than will, parayko will drastically improve the D and therefore improve the goalies numbers.

You sir are suffering from leafdelusion
- JiggsDinner

Will be doesn't help us now.

Paryko is better then Jake, but....we'd still be left with a hole on the D.

We need to add to Rielly Gardiner, not subtract 1 and add another. JMO

Will be doesn't help us now.

Paryko is better then Jake, but....we'd still be left with a hole on the D.

We need to add to Rielly Gardiner, not subtract 1 and add another. JMO
- Garnie

Tell me specifically what makes parayko better than Gardiner.

Parayko never really developed into what many hoped he would.

The Blues would never make this deal. They are not trading Thomas or Kyrou.

The suggested trade would be taking 2 steps back for the Blues.

It boils down to Nylander for Parayko AND Kyrou. The other pieces would be gone by May.

Nylander is off to a good start in his career but he's most certainly not worth a top pairing dman and our top forward prospect.

The list of sub 26 year old 30+ point scoring dmen in the NHL is very, very slim. Parayko is on that list.

The suggested trade would be taking 2 steps back for the Blues.

It boils down to Nylander for Parayko AND Kyrou. The other pieces would be gone by May.

Nylander is off to a good start in his career but he's most certainly not worth a top pairing dman and our top forward prospect.

The list of sub 26 year old 30+ point scoring dmen in the NHL is very, very slim. Parayko is on that list.
- Blueshockey47

Your top forward prospects performance is nowhere near nylanders at the same point in their career and he doesn't project to be remotely close to as good. He's not even close to worth nylander.

The suggested trade would be taking 2 steps back for the Blues.

It boils down to Nylander for Parayko AND Kyrou. The other pieces would be gone by May.

Nylander is off to a good start in his career but he's most certainly not worth a top pairing dman and our top forward prospect.

The list of sub 26 year old 30+ point scoring dmen in the NHL is very, very slim. Parayko is on that list.
- Blueshockey47

I think the Edmonton trade has made people think DMen of any kind are better than any top forward. I don't agree and don't think any other team/GM would have made that trade.

Your top forward prospects performance is nowhere near nylanders at the same point in their career and he doesn't project to be remotely close to as good. He's not even close to worth nylander.
- prock

We've let him develop by scoring 90+ points in the OHL twice and putting on weight as he was 160 pounds. Does he have the stats that Nylander has right now? No, but I'm sure if we stuck him with Matthews 18 minutes a game he would put up 60 points in this league.

There just aren't enough young, impact top line dmen in this league in comparison to young, impact forwards. Every year the NHL is flooded with new impact 19-20 year old forwards while the majority of drafted dmen take years to develop.