If history is our guide, only half of those guys will play significant time in the NHL, and maybe 1, or 2 if you're really lucky, will be impactful career NHLers.

Here are the Blackhawks D men drafts in 02 & 03

2002
Babchuk R1
Keith R2
Wisniewski R5
Kantee R6

2003
Seabrook R1
Barinka R2
Kukkonen R5
Byfuglien R8
Grenzy R9

So 1 HOFer, 2 outstanding All-Star level players and 1 just below All-Star. And 5 guys you never heard of, including on from R1. And these are unusually good drafts.
- scottak

That's life nothing is guaranteed, however Keith and Seabrook are way past their prime, both combine for 12 million and neither are making your team any better now or in the future nor will get you another cup or help you make this team into a contender again. It's 5 and 6 more years that we can't have any free money to resign or bring in players , 2 spots are then committed not allowing this team to bring up the youth and their comes a point where neither can keep up with these kids .


However if a team wants to win this year and is looking for a proven
Defenseman who can help them make a run and win then you probably can move them .

A couple of things:

1) The 'hawks are playing like its shinny out there. No one seems to know where anyone is going to be. Hopefully that will improve with time and knowledge of the system.

2) In re: free agents. Don't forget, there's an opt out to the CBA next September and I think one or both sides are going to use it. Doesn't make a ton of sense to sign big money free agents when you don't know what's on the other side of negotiations. The Blackhawks already got burned once (perhaps twice if you include Keith) and I can't imagine they want to again.

Good article today by Jeff Osborn over at The Rink. Covers the realities/constraints of the current roster and moving forward. Spoiler alert: things will get worse before they get better and there’s no easy fix.

https://www.the-rink.com/...mp-affect-the-blackhawks/

A couple of things:

1) The 'hawks are playing like its shinny out there. No one seems to know where anyone is going to be. Hopefully that will improve with time and knowledge of the system.

2) In re: free agents. Don't forget, there's an opt out to the CBA next September and I think one or both sides are going to use it. Doesn't make a ton of sense to sign big money free agents when you don't know what's on the other side of negotiations. The Blackhawks already got burned once (perhaps twice if you include Keith) and I can't imagine they want to again.
- CanOCorn

Thanks for the update on the CBA . We can only hope that Seabrook and Keith's money are off the books sooner.

So you would rather grab Skinner who is one year younger with documented concussion problems over another goal scorer who has shown he has chemistry with your best asset. The Mark Stone love affair confuses me. He is a big fish in a small pond, we dont need Saad 2.0.

Fatty, you bring up a great point with the failure to develop the mid tier defense. I have never been a Bowman fan, but when you start to look at our system and the players in their given roles, it is clear Bowman isnt in the same league as a Dale Tallon. Outside of Hossa, Tallon drafted that core and did a great job doing so. I understand the hawks sucked so a lot of those picks were higher, but the Versteeg's and Brouwer's, etc. we dont see those in his draft history.
- nickmo2699

Yes. Skinner is a pure goal scorer with a lot of speed and willbe cheaper.

Between Toews, AA, Seabrook, Crow and now Boqvist they have a lot of guys with brain probs. One more not a big deal.

Mark Stone is a big guy who can move and finish. Can get that first line back to that heavy style they played when Hossa was on the team.

They need another guy for the top line not another guy to ride with Kane.

Not just develop D but acquire through free agency or trades. Runblad and Gus are about the same terrible player. Forsling. He is pretty bad in his own end, isnt a great skater and his vision is pretty meh. Not a shutdown guy but not gonna rack up 50 points so wtf . Oduya the second time woof. And really he's been the only one they were able to make work.

I think they have actually drafted pretty well. A lot of guys they traded away for whatever dumb reason but TT, Danault, Shaw, Schmaltz, Dcat, Saad, Kruger, have turned into solid depth players and in some cases top six guys. I like the Strome pick up a lot but hes got 1 or 2 years before he starts filling out but obviously thinks the game well (which Schmaltz did not do) and has high end skill.

Their pro scouting though. Woof.

Have to admit lot of entertainment value this year and Im hoping for some more trades and other crazy stuff to keep drama high.

If history is our guide, only half of those guys will play significant time in the NHL, and maybe 1, or 2 if you're really lucky, will be impactful career NHLers.

Here are the Blackhawks D men drafts in 02 & 03

2002
Babchuk R1
Keith R2
Wisniewski R5
Kantee R6

2003
Seabrook R1
Barinka R2
Kukkonen R5
Byfuglien R8
Grenzy R9

So 1 HOFer, 2 outstanding All-Star level players and 1 just below All-Star. And 5 guys you never heard of, including on from R1. And these are unusually good drafts.
- scottak

Grenzy in round 9 was an absolute steal!

The plummet from the Hawks' "Golden Age" is tough to watch but it's not unexpected. A team of young guns with outstanding complimentary players glued together by the two way veteran Marian Hossa and other veterans. Right from the first cup the Hawks' started getting weaker, first the top end depth had to be moved, then some of the secondary veterans. When Hossa finally left the glue that held it all together was gone leaving a team with almost no depth,no cap room and five core players all on the downsides of their careers.

The only way to have avoided this freefall was to have started moving core players after the 2015 cup win. I know this for certain because hindsight makes me smarter than Bowman, or Q or McD or Rocky. But without hindsight how many here who are moaning about what the Hawks are today, would have been able to handle the Hawks trading Seabrook for some young prospects or draft picks? What if the rumour of the Sabres and the Hawks having a deal in place if the Sabres had won the lottery pick in McDavid's draft year, for A 26 year old patrick Kane were true? What if Toews were moved as a 26 or 27 year old for an up and coming Mark Scheifele? What if Keith was traded for some young guy? How about Crow? Posters on this site would have been jumping off buildings!

The Glory days are over, the Hawks are unlikely to get better until they get worse. Now we see what the Hawks organization is made of. Big decisions need to be made to rebuild the team. Unlike many fans who were whining and female doging about the Hawks when they were winning, I enjoyed the ride. Maybe that's why I'm not as angry and bitter as many of the fans who didn't enjoy the Blackhawk's Golden Age as much as I did.
- paulr

All good stuff Paul - as long as you dont live in a "what have you done for me lately world."

Hawk fans were treated to 3 Cups, with a little luck it could have been 4. Now they dont need to tank because this team is truly one of the 3 worst teams in the NHL. They are horrible to watch and are lifeless. Reconstruction time is on the immediate horizon, better times down the road.

Left to watch this year is what excellent team will win the Cup - Toronto, Winnipeg, Nashville, Tampa, Colorado? Or maybe none of them and if not their fans will go into a deeper depression than Hawk fans are in now.

That podcast did humanize Stan a bit for me. I felt bad when they said 'we're selling the poop out of FIRE STAN shirts over here' and Stan was just silent for a few seconds.

That said, we need someone who can evaluate personnel better. The league has gotten faster and meanwhile we've traded for or signed guys like Murphy, Anisimov, Kunitz, Manning, Martinsen, etc.

Horribly unfair comparison time: What's one thing you notice about this team clip here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeCRr-m5Z4Y

Urgency, speed, tenacity, relentless pursuit and near-flawless decision making. Even the slow guys are moving like it's... well... game 7.
They won more puck battles, they flew through the zones, there was no second guessing of what to do with the puck, it was just done instantly without thought.

This 2018-19 team shows none of that. Everything is second guessed. The urgency is gone. Drop passes, area passes, and plenty of lost puck battles.

What set the Cup teams apart? Talent, effort, structure.
Hawks are missing all of that right now. You can't replace Sharp with Kahun, or Hjalmarsson with Gustafsson, or Oduya with Murphy, etc.

This team doesn't need one or two pieces. They need 6 or 7 pieces to return to contention. You need a lineup so talented that every single line change makes the opposing coach mutter 'fuuuuuuuuuu*k' under his breath.

A couple of things:

1) The 'hawks are playing like its shinny out there. No one seems to know where anyone is going to be. Hopefully that will improve with time and knowledge of the system.

2) In re: free agents. Don't forget, there's an opt out to the CBA next September and I think one or both sides are going to use it. Doesn't make a ton of sense to sign big money free agents when you don't know what's on the other side of negotiations. The Blackhawks already got burned once (perhaps twice if you include Keith) and I can't imagine they want to again.
- CanOCorn

Good point about the timing of the next CBA. As a fan, and as means to offer teams more flexibility under the cap, I’d be intrested to see the NHL implement a garunteed vs non-garunteed salary structure for player contracts similar to that in the NFL. It would probably cost a season due to impasse/lockout - but since the Hawks are going to be bad for a while - I’m Ok with that.

A couple of things:

1) The 'hawks are playing like its shinny out there. No one seems to know where anyone is going to be. Hopefully that will improve with time and knowledge of the system.

2) In re: free agents. Don't forget, there's an opt out to the CBA next September and I think one or both sides are going to use it. Doesn't make a ton of sense to sign big money free agents when you don't know what's on the other side of negotiations. The Blackhawks already got burned once (perhaps twice if you include Keith) and I can't imagine they want to again.
- CanOCorn

I’m not sure the owners would opt out - they aren’t going to do any better than the 50/50 HRR split - I don’t know what other issues they may have. Don’t forget - they offerred to let the league participate in the last Olympics if the players agreed to not opt out of the CBA early.

The players have a big issue - the escrow - which may be the opt out issue. Also they may want to get a bigger share of HRR, referencing the $1.15B the league got for expansion - which they don’t share in.

All just speculation on my part.

That podcast did humanize Stan a bit for me. I felt bad when they said 'we're selling the poop out of FIRE STAN shirts over here' and Stan was just silent for a few seconds.

That said, we need someone who can evaluate personnel better. The league has gotten faster and meanwhile we've traded for or signed guys like Murphy, Anisimov, Kunitz, Manning, Martinsen, etc.

Horribly unfair comparison time: What's one thing you notice about this team clip here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeCRr-m5Z4Y

Urgency, speed, tenacity, relentless pursuit and near-flawless decision making. Even the slow guys are moving like it's... well... game 7.
They won more puck battles, they flew through the zones, there was no second guessing of what to do with the puck, it was just done instantly without thought.

This 2018-19 team shows none of that. Everything is second guessed. The urgency is gone. Drop passes, area passes, and plenty of lost puck battles.

What set the Cup teams apart? Talent, effort, structure.
Hawks are missing all of that right now. You can't replace Sharp with Kahun, or Hjalmarsson with Gustafsson, or Oduya with Murphy, etc.

This team doesn't need one or two pieces. They need 6 or 7 pieces to return to contention. You need a lineup so talented that every single line change makes the opposing coach mutter 'fuuuuuuuuuu*k' under his breath.
- ObeseOprah

That's what happens when you have 4 HOFers, in their prime, plus lots of other talented players up and down the line up.

People typically keep an eye on their favorite team growing up when they eventually do grow up and move on. Anyone here think Kane isn't a little homesick right about now? A proactive move when they realize they are falling off a cliff (no matter what they say) would be to get a bundle for Kane sending him to Buffalo and I think he would have waived to go. But it has to be done when Buffalo has a high draft pick. It's too late now. And if you think Kane is going to waive to go to any other bottom team with a high pick at this point I would have to disagree. The hawks management seems reactive, not proactive. That's probably because they didn't build it in the first place.
- 6628

Watching the Leafs / Sabres game last night I thought how much Kane could contribute to the Sabres offence. They are a very nice developing team.

And I believe the Sabres own St. Louis #1 pick from the Ryan O'Reilly trade.

All good stuff Paul - as long as you dont live in a "what have you done for me lately world."

Hawk fans were treated to 3 Cups, with a little luck it could have been 4. Now they dont need to tank because this team is truly one of the 3 worst teams in the NHL. They are horrible to watch and are lifeless. Reconstruction time is on the immediate horizon, better times down the road.

Left to watch this year is what excellent team will win the Cup - Toronto, Winnipeg, Nashville, Tampa, Colorado? Or maybe none of them and if not their fans will go into a deeper depression than Hawk fans are in now.
- RickJ

Been a fan since 1964 and very satisfied with this run. I do not expect anymore Cups with this group but my loyalty has not faded -all I ask for is smart asset management during this rebuild but I am not very confident in Bowman as the guy to do that.
Younger fans wanting more should have been around during the 1964 - 1971 era. Now that was disappointing and depressing. That club should have had a couple of Cups but bad luck and the Esposito deal killed those dreams.

Watching the Leafs / Sabres game last night I thought how much Kane could contribute to the Sabres offence. They are a very nice developing team.

And I believe the Sabres own St. Louis #1 pick from the Ryan O'Reilly trade.
- RickJ

That pick would be nice but it is top 10 protected.

Suffering from a major short-term pleasure vs long term gain dilemma here.

My mind knows that it’s best for the team to tank for the rebuild but of course my heart wants them to make the playoffs. At this point, probably the worst case scenario is the Hawks just miss the playoffs and get the 15th pick overall.

Are there any last year’s Ian Cole-type defensemen out there that are on the bubble on deep teams that could give the Hawks D immediate help even if just an improvement over Manning, Rutta, Gus, etc.?

On a related note, my boss just asked me if I’m going to watch the Anaheim game tonight even if the Hawks are so terrible and the game is so late. I answered of course lol.

Justin everything that comes out if bowman and Mcego mouths is calculated and don't believe anything they. Bowman overall body of work is not very good he took a dynasty team and slowly ruined it by bad trades bad contracts bad developing and bad drafting. Has done good yes but bad out weighs the good by a large margin. So the hawks sit as one of worse teams in the league poor roster construction paying pass performance and not be proactive but he remains to be puzzled at times when to make a trade. For example bowman shoulda waited until the nylander saga was over then tell 30 teams schmaltz is available give your best deal, no one week before the nylander was going to be resolved he trades schmaltz for 2 under achieveing players and top of that traded for forwards instead of defense. So what i am getting at Justin in your opinion if this season continues way it is now and the hawks are clearly not making the playoffs say by the end of this month does bowman get fired at the beginning of the new year? Promote macvier as interim gm and then assets after the season is done to fire Mcego? If bowman and Mcego are here next year then they will lose their fan base completely and it will be more of the same IMO.

Does anyone else find it just a bit odd that Coach Q seemingly hasn't been seen or heard from since his departure?? At least I haven't seen any interviews on TV, read any on the net or in any papers. I would have thought someone in sports media would have wanted to talk to him to get his take on things. Have I just missed such an interview?? Thanks.

That's life nothing is guaranteed, however Keith and Seabrook are way past their prime, both combine for 12 million and neither are making your team any better now or in the future nor will get you another cup or help you make this team into a contender again. It's 5 and 6 more years that we can't have any free money to resign or bring in players , 2 spots are then committed not allowing this team to bring up the youth and their comes a point where neither can keep up with these kids .


However if a team wants to win this year and is looking for a proven
Defenseman who can help them make a run and win then you probably can move them .
- Taylorst1

You can't say "neither are making your team any better now or in the future nor will get you another cup", and follow that up with "however if a team wants to win this year and is looking for a proven Defenseman who can help make a run".

I get your frustration (you are not alone), but either they are still good and are worth something, or they are not. Are you proposing that they trade them simply for picks? I guess I would be on board with that as long as you get solid value for them. Don't dump them just to dump them, you just get the same garbage we've seen for the last two years. I'm just not sure what your expectation is.

Been a fan since 1964 and very satisfied with this run. I do not expect anymore Cups with this group but my loyalty has not faded -all I ask for is smart asset management during this rebuild but I am not very confident in Bowman as the guy to do that.
Younger fans wanting more should have been around during the 1964 - 1971 era. Now that was disappointing and depressing. That club should have had a couple of Cups but bad luck and the Esposito deal killed those dreams.
- 67hawks

Asset management is something Bowman & Co. can be criticized heavily for retrospectively. The Ladd trade I hated as well as the Timonen deal. In general their drafts havent been very good.

But most importantly the Hawks have done what Bill Torrey criticized himself fpr at the end of the great Islanders run - holding on to too many players out of extreme loyalty.

The plummet from the Hawks' "Golden Age" is tough to watch but it's not unexpected. A team of young guns with outstanding complimentary players glued together by the two way veteran Marian Hossa and other veterans. Right from the first cup the Hawks' started getting weaker, first the top end depth had to be moved, then some of the secondary veterans. When Hossa finally left the glue that held it all together was gone leaving a team with almost no depth,no cap room and five core players all on the downsides of their careers.

The only way to have avoided this freefall was to have started moving core players after the 2015 cup win. I know this for certain because hindsight makes me smarter than Bowman, or Q or McD or Rocky. But without hindsight how many here who are moaning about what the Hawks are today, would have been able to handle the Hawks trading Seabrook for some young prospects or draft picks? What if the rumour of the Sabres and the Hawks having a deal in place if the Sabres had won the lottery pick in McDavid's draft year, for A 26 year old patrick Kane were true? What if Toews were moved as a 26 or 27 year old for an up and coming Mark Scheifele? What if Keith was traded for some young guy? How about Crow? Posters on this site would have been jumping off buildings!

The Glory days are over, the Hawks are unlikely to get better until they get worse. Now we see what the Hawks organization is made of. Big decisions need to be made to rebuild the team. Unlike many fans who were whining and female doging about the Hawks when they were winning, I enjoyed the ride. Maybe that's why I'm not as angry and bitter as many of the fans who didn't enjoy the Blackhawk's Golden Age as much as I did.
- paulr

Well said. Agree 100%.

You can't say "neither are making your team any better now or in the future nor will get you another cup", and follow that up with "however if a team wants to win this year and is looking for a proven Defenseman who can help make a run".

I get your frustration (you are not alone), but either they are still good and are worth something, or they are not. Are you proposing that they trade them simply for picks? I guess I would be on board with that as long as you get solid value for them. Don't dump them just to dump them, you just get the same garbage we've seen for the last two years. I'm just not sure what your expectation is.
- Chunk

I'd do a package deal maybe picks , but edmonton their has been some rumors, maybe you move Seabrook or Keith, toews Crawford, anisomov for drasaiti,nurse, and Talbot and a couple of young prospects .

Toews has lost his confidence and he made some progress in the off season butmi still believe hossa made toews a better player.

Some guys have a "killer instinct" which is what it takes to win and go the extra .01% past the stats/averages/predictions. To consistently win Championships, not presidents trophies, you need a guy like Kane, Keith (in his prime), arguably Toews 2010-2013 too.
You need guys that don't stop even after they've become the best.
Buff showed up out of shape to training camp.
Ladd has regressed into a lump of a cap hit.
If anyone disagrees, you're welcome to click the link below and hop on the band wagon.

https://tinyurl.com/ya7x6d8f

(Note: link isn't technically spam...)
- Slofire94

LOL on the link thanks but a definite


As for Buff that was years later in the Peg
and Ladd was good for years after, there also
might''ve been one or two more pieces kept
or even gotten for the value from trading Kane
but I do appreciate your thought on this
and as to the fact we can't go back and change
history we'll just never know, we can only
speculate, dream.

Asset management is something Bowman & Co. can be criticized heavily for retrospectively. The Ladd trade I hated as well as the Timonen deal. In general their drafts havent been very good.

But most importantly the Hawks have done what Bill Torrey criticized himself fpr at the end of the great Islanders run - holding on to too many players out of extreme loyalty.
- RickJ

The Hawks picks that they've traded away have turned into some decent players:
-Jack Roslovic looks promising in WPG
-Traded for Rundblad, that second rounder became Christian Dvorak
-Trading a second for Timonen, Hextall then used this pick to trade up and get Travis Konecny
-Trading the 1st rounder in 2015 for Vermette, which they used on Nick Merkley. This one won us a cup, can't complain.

There's a few that I'm missing but the lack of 1st rounders and even 2nd rounders has killed them. The D pipeline is good but the forward pipeline is still completely devoid of top talent.

Asset management is something Bowman & Co. can be criticized heavily for retrospectively. The Ladd trade I hated as well as the Timonen deal. In general their drafts havent been very good.

But most importantly the Hawks have done what Bill Torrey criticized himself fpr at the end of the great Islanders run - holding on to too many players out of extreme loyalty.
- RickJ

Well said. Thats what some people are not realizing. In order to improve this team has to part ways with 3 of the remaining core players while their value is high.


This team isn't a playoff team it's God awful to watch this clown show, might as well shed thenremaing value and money and a few years from now be competitive and inspiring again.

That podcast did humanize Stan a bit for me. I felt bad when they said 'we're selling the poop out of FIRE STAN shirts over here' and Stan was just silent for a few seconds.

That said, we need someone who can evaluate personnel better. The league has gotten faster and meanwhile we've traded for or signed guys like Murphy, Anisimov, Kunitz, Manning, Martinsen, etc.

Horribly unfair comparison time: What's one thing you notice about this team clip here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeCRr-m5Z4Y

Urgency, speed, tenacity, relentless pursuit and near-flawless decision making. Even the slow guys are moving like it's... well... game 7.
They won more puck battles, they flew through the zones, there was no second guessing of what to do with the puck, it was just done instantly without thought.

This 2018-19 team shows none of that. Everything is second guessed. The urgency is gone. Drop passes, area passes, and plenty of lost puck battles.

What set the Cup teams apart? Talent, effort, structure.
Hawks are missing all of that right now. You can't replace Sharp with Kahun, or Hjalmarsson with Gustafsson, or Oduya with Murphy, etc.

This team doesn't need one or two pieces. They need 6 or 7 pieces to return to contention. You need a lineup so talented that every single line change makes the opposing coach mutter 'fuuuuuuuuuu*k' under his breath.
- ObeseOprah

Wow, what an incredible level of play, I have forgotten what it was like to watch a game like that as I really only watch the hawks who have been throwing stinkers for the last few years.

Obviously it is game 7 of the WCF so it is going to be high level, but the thing that sticks out is how every inch of ice is contested. Advancing the pucks in these games required extremely fast decision making from the players because as soon as you touch it you are being attacked by an opposing player. It is a thing of beauty.

Also holy crap I forgot about the Sharp-Handzus-Hossa-Sharp play on goal 1, what a brilliant play it almost brings tears to my eyes.

Speed is very important in the game of hockey, but I think the rhetoric today is misinterpreting what it means to be a fast hockey team. Yes, it is nice to be able to skate fast, but what I believe is truly important is being able to play fast. To make quick decisions as to where the puck should be moved, and make quick decisions as to where your body should be moved on the ice to support the puck, attack the puck, and shut down options for the puck carrier. So yes the Blackhawks need talent, but talent is truly hard to define in this game and it can mean a number of things. I think they need to continue to look for players that can make smart decisions with the puck quickly and consistently.

The other thing that I feel when watching this is sadness that Q was let go. The rhetoric around here had been so negative around Q that I myself started to believe he wasn't a great coach, or that the coach in hockey doesn't mean all that much. But any coach that gets his team to play at such a high level is undeniably great. I think for whatever reason Q had lost some magic and it is probably okay that the hawks moved on, but anyone who can watch these games and see the level at which this team was playing cannot deny Q's greatness. This wasn't just a team of high level players, it was a team of high level players that functioned as a well oiled machine manned by Q the operator, and it is a wonderful thing to look back on.