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Forums :: Blog World :: Todd Cordell: Red Wings 4, Devils 3: Five observations from another disappointing effort
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MartysBetter88
New Jersey Devils
Location: 94Nevermore, NJ
Joined: 07.01.2010

Nov 3 @ 9:36 AM ET
Yeah, you can really tell by how he plays that he needs mental help. Because that isn't (frank)ing stupid at all.
- Pomegrant



it's not, since your brain and mentality literally defines how you do everything in life, including playing hockey. sports psychologists exist for a reason. How does a 6th overall pick consistently play so flat and without life? he literally looks "depressed" in terms of his energy and drive. Not saying he's clinically depressed... just plays really flat. I can't imagine him playing like this in juniors and a team goes, "THAT is what we need!". Something has to be off about him. "Adjusting to the NHL game" doesn't make you a flat, lack of hustle player for 4 straight seasons.
redmonsters
New Jersey Devils
Location: NY
Joined: 06.23.2015

Nov 3 @ 10:07 AM ET
Hey Todd,
Do you have any updates about Devils prospects. I've been hearing Ty Smith has been tearing it up in the W.

- devsnation_12

Ty Smith leads the WHL for Dmen in point, and has played fewer games the the next 9 behind him. He has the folowing line GP 13 G2 A19 Pts21 +7. Those stats also outpace leading Dmen in the OHL as well. So, umm pretty good pick.
Pomegrant
New Jersey Devils
Location: NJ
Joined: 01.18.2010

Nov 3 @ 11:57 AM ET
it's not, since your brain and mentality literally defines how you do everything in life, including playing hockey. sports psychologists exist for a reason. How does a 6th overall pick consistently play so flat and without life? he literally looks "depressed" in terms of his energy and drive. Not saying he's clinically depressed... just plays really flat. I can't imagine him playing like this in juniors and a team goes, "THAT is what we need!". Something has to be off about him. "Adjusting to the NHL game" doesn't make you a flat, lack of hustle player for 4 straight seasons.
- MartysBetter88

It's bullpoop that if you don't do well at your job it's indicative of psychological problems. Get your head out of your ass. You can't tell that poop from sitting at home watching on your TV. You don't know him at all and you never will. The quality of hockey player he is is not a reflection of his character, it's a reflection of how good of a hockey player he is.
MartysBetter88
New Jersey Devils
Location: 94Nevermore, NJ
Joined: 07.01.2010

Nov 3 @ 1:59 PM ET
It's bullpoop that if you don't do well at your job it's indicative of psychological problems. Get your head out of your ass. You can't tell that poop from sitting at home watching on your TV. You don't know him at all and you never will. The quality of hockey player he is is not a reflection of his character, it's a reflection of how good of a hockey player he is.
- Pomegrant


Wow. I'm not questioning his character, almighty Pomegrant. I'm not claiming to know him. I did say maybe I'm over-analyzing. I'm not assuming or asserting anything, just questioning what we've seen for years now.

I just question if you're scouted as being one of the most talented forwards in a draft, yet continue to under-perform due to specifically lacking assertiveness and energy, maybe there's a reason behind that. People don't typically under-perform at their jobs when they're feeling great and confident. They likely wouldn't have gotten their high-level jobs in the first place if they had a history of being a lazy worker. I'm not sure 4 years is too long or short of a time to say a person is still adjusting to the NHL. Maybe his way of adjusting is playing apathetic hockey. That to me isn't the same as not being a good hockey player. He was drafted high because he was supposedly a great hockey player at his level. And even if he wasn't, he still plays weak and flat more often than not. Idk how a player without drive, assertiveness, production, can be chosen 6th overall. I'd also question if his lack of success doesn't have an impact on his psyche.. I'd imagine it would for anyone.

Talking with a sports psychologist has helped many players in the past, and I'm sure there are PLENTY that have gone that we don't hear about because of HIPAA and confidentiality and all that.

Which leads me to what should be a beyond obvious truth..

Seeing a sports psychologist is in NO WAY the same as diagnosing anyone with anything, and shouldn't be looked at with negativity. what a stigma that is. We could all benefit from some therapy, unless you're basically not human.
smellmyfinger
New Jersey Devils
Location: NJ
Joined: 07.28.2011

Nov 3 @ 2:31 PM ET
Its not about winning it, its about standing up for your boys, which no one else did. he got a thumbs up and respect from me.

Also, that was game 10, one more than Ty was allowed. Given all that happened, should he have been given the 9 game try out ?

- Leniwm1



This is true, and as long as fighting keeps decreasing in the NHL we will probably see more non-fighters try to throw a few on rare occasions. I'll say this, I didn't have much hope for Mueller at the time of the trade, but for a 23 year old who still hasn't hit 100 games, he's looking OK.

Smith is tearing it up, exactly what you want to see out of a top prospect in his +1 year. 21 points in 13 games playing on the top pair and top PP unit. He can still play on the NHL team once his WHL season ends.

I don't think many of us knew much about Xavier Bernard headed into last years draft, but they may have found a hidden gem there in the 4th round last year as well. He's putting together a pretty solid season so far.
Queenie_5_hole
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 05.01.2015

Nov 3 @ 2:38 PM ET
This is true, and as long as fighting keeps decreasing in the NHL we will probably see more non-fighters try to throw a few on rare occasions. I'll say this, I didn't have much hope for Mueller at the time of the trade, but for a 23 year old who still hasn't hit 100 games, he's looking OK.

Smith is tearing it up, exactly what you want to see out of a top prospect in his +1 year. 21 points in 13 games playing on the top pair and top PP unit. He can still play on the NHL team once his WHL season ends.

- smellmyfinger


Mueller has been a great surprise so far. I mean ideally we wouldn’t be putting him on the top pair but he seems to be handling it decently.

Glad to see him ‘fight’ a little too. He’s been a bit soft for such a big kid so nice to see him stand up and be assertive.
Pomegrant
New Jersey Devils
Location: NJ
Joined: 01.18.2010

Nov 3 @ 2:39 PM ET
dumb poop
- MartysBetter88

It's amazing that you still don't understand what being a prospect is and that it isn't given that you'll be a good player.

And you're the one who said that he looks "depressed". So maybe you shouldn't diagnose people you haven't interacted with and only watch them on TV.

All in all it's the same intangibles bullpoop that doesn't matter. "he looks like he isn't trying", "he doesn't look like a winner". Same old garbage.
MartysBetter88
New Jersey Devils
Location: 94Nevermore, NJ
Joined: 07.01.2010

Nov 3 @ 3:30 PM ET
It's amazing that you still don't understand what being a prospect is and that it isn't given that you'll be a good player.

And you're the one who said that he looks "depressed". So maybe you shouldn't diagnose people you haven't interacted with and only watch them on TV.

All in all it's the same intangibles bullpoop that doesn't matter. "he looks like he isn't trying", "he doesn't look like a winner". Same old garbage.

- Pomegrant


Lackluster mediocre-energy players don't get picked 6th overall. He apppears to be playing lackluster and with mediocre energy. He's played like that for the majority of the past 3+ years. Maybe our scouts just mis-read him.

Look, I get where you're coming from, but saying someone plays hockey as if they were depressed "in terms of energy and drive" is incredibly different than asserting someone IS in fact depressed. There is a difference. You talk as if you're smart, so you should be aware there is a difference. He looks like he isn't trying is different from me diagnosing him with depression. I'm not diagnosing anyone with anything. A sports psychologist never hurt anyone, far as I know. You can dismount from your soapbox now.
Pomegrant
New Jersey Devils
Location: NJ
Joined: 01.18.2010

Nov 3 @ 3:46 PM ET
Lackluster mediocre-energy players don't get picked 6th overall. He apppears to be playing lackluster and with mediocre energy. He's played like that for the majority of the past 3+ years. Maybe our scouts just mis-read him.

Look, I get where you're coming from, but saying someone plays hockey as if they were depressed "in terms of energy and drive" is incredibly different than asserting someone IS in fact depressed. There is a difference. You talk as if you're smart, so you should be aware there is a difference. He looks like he isn't trying is different from me diagnosing him with depression. I'm not diagnosing anyone with anything. A sports psychologist never hurt anyone, far as I know. You can dismount from your soapbox now.

- MartysBetter88

Our scouts obviously sucked seeing the immense amount of talent drafted after him. Him being drafted too highly isn't his fault. I'm not sure what is difficult to understand about this.

And yeah saying somebody looks depressed but not saying you think they are depressed makes a lot of sense. It's not even a soapbox, it's calling you out for saying moronic bullpoop. I'm not saying that anybody shouldn't go to a therapist or a psychologist and I'm also not the one calling people "depressed" because I watch them on TV. Get a grip.
MartysBetter88
New Jersey Devils
Location: 94Nevermore, NJ
Joined: 07.01.2010

Nov 3 @ 4:01 PM ET
Our scouts obviously sucked seeing the immense amount of talent drafted after him. Him being drafted too highly isn't his fault. I'm not sure what is difficult to understand about this.

And yeah saying somebody looks depressed but not saying you think they are depressed makes a lot of sense. It's not even a soapbox, it's calling you out for saying moronic bullpoop. I'm not saying that anybody shouldn't go to a therapist or a psychologist and I'm also not the one calling people "depressed" because I watch them on TV. Get a grip.

- Pomegrant


I'm aware him being drafted too highly isn't his fault. But there is a difference between 6th and 86th overall.. and he looks like an 86th overall. Maybe he's not playing as good as he showed in juniors? Maybe he's off his game and can't find it. Maybe he needs a sports psychologist. maybe he just needs the A. "MAYBE" isn't the same as "this 100% is a non-arguable proven fact".

You're making the connection that this is the same as me diagnosing the guy as being clinically depressed, which would be impossible for me to clinically do anyway. That's not what I did. I'm saying what he looks like on the ice.. which is a guy consistently playing flat, not finishing checks, not playing hard, not skating hard, not shooting, being so so passive. In terms of sports play.. it's playing *with the appearance of* depression *on the ice*, which is different from diagnosing him as depressed as a person. You don't get picked 6th, 36th, 46th etc by playing passive while not contributing. He's off his game, and sparingly presented as an NHL forward in over 3 full seasons of NHL action (even if he is young) which is why he was sent to the A, finally. I'm not banging the judge's hammer on saying the dude is depressed. I think you took what I said a bit different than I intended to communicate. So my bad for that.
Queenie_5_hole
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 05.01.2015

Nov 3 @ 4:34 PM ET
I'm aware him being drafted too highly isn't his fault. But there is a difference between 6th and 86th overall.. and he looks like an 86th overall. Maybe he's not playing as good as he showed in juniors? Maybe he's off his game and can't find it. Maybe he needs a sports psychologist. maybe he just needs the A. "MAYBE" isn't the same as "this 100% is a non-arguable proven fact".


You're making the connection that this is the same as me diagnosing the guy as being clinically depressed, which would be impossible for me to clinically do anyway. That's not what I did. I'm saying what he looks like on the ice.. which is a guy consistently playing flat, not finishing checks, not playing hard, not skating hard, not shooting, being so so passive. In terms of sports play.. it's playing *with the appearance of* depression *on the ice*, which is different from diagnosing him as depressed as a person. You don't get picked 6th, 36th, 46th etc by playing passive while not contributing. He's off his game, and sparingly presented as an NHL forward in over 3 full seasons of NHL action (even if he is young) which is why he was sent to the A, finally. I'm not banging the judge's hammer on saying the dude is depressed. I think you took what I said a bit different than I intended to communicate. So my bad for that.

- MartysBetter88


I’m not getting involved in this poopstorm of an argument, but maybe it would help to get Elias involved with Zacha’s development. I think Zacha has skills but hasn’t transitioned to the nhl game well.
MartysBetter88
New Jersey Devils
Location: 94Nevermore, NJ
Joined: 07.01.2010

Nov 3 @ 4:44 PM ET
I’m not getting involved in this poopstorm of an argument, but maybe it would help to get Elias involved with Zacha’s development. I think Zacha has skills but hasn’t transitioned to the nhl game well.
- Queenie_5_hole

I'm all for it, and yea, that's what I'm assuming.
Queenie_5_hole
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 05.01.2015

Nov 3 @ 5:59 PM ET
I'm all for it, and yea, that's what I'm assuming.
- MartysBetter88


Just spitballing ideas. But if they can get Clowe involved they can get Elias involved; assuming he’s interested. Elias seems like a guy who could be a good coach and mentor.

dmarsden2988
New Jersey Devils
Location: stafford is about equal to rya, NJ
Joined: 03.07.2011

Nov 3 @ 8:17 PM ET
How many breakaways this year for hall so far and no goals?
devilspep
Joined: 07.12.2009

Nov 3 @ 8:39 PM ET
How many breakaways this year for hall so far and no goals?
- dmarsden2988

devilspep
Joined: 07.12.2009

Nov 3 @ 8:39 PM ET
[quote=devilspep]

Too many
Pomegrant
New Jersey Devils
Location: NJ
Joined: 01.18.2010

Nov 3 @ 9:12 PM ET
Islanders are not a good team and we're making them look like world beaters. Too many flat games in a row.
dmarsden2988
New Jersey Devils
Location: stafford is about equal to rya, NJ
Joined: 03.07.2011

Nov 3 @ 9:33 PM ET
No good away games and outscored in the 3rd again
MartysBetter88
New Jersey Devils
Location: 94Nevermore, NJ
Joined: 07.01.2010

Nov 3 @ 9:34 PM ET
man oh man.. oh man.
devilspep
Joined: 07.12.2009

Nov 3 @ 9:36 PM ET
It's probably time to panic. Greiss stole this game but no excuse to lose back to back against teams not expected to make the playoffs.

Probably not a coincidence they got shut out with Stafford and Gryba taking up lineup spots.
TRDevil
New Jersey Devils
Location: Toms River, NJ
Joined: 04.04.2014

Nov 3 @ 9:39 PM ET
What a frustersting game to watch. So many chances.
dmarsden2988
New Jersey Devils
Location: stafford is about equal to rya, NJ
Joined: 03.07.2011

Nov 3 @ 10:28 PM ET
So devils didn't score but zacha had an assist for Binghamton
Shampoo
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 06.20.2018

Nov 4 @ 9:05 AM ET
We seem to be going through a bunch of different call ups with no success. At what point does Ray pull the trigger on a trade? I dont want a panic move, but something to wake the room up might be nice. I am thinking they are probably waiting to see what kind of boost Bratt brings to the team when he finally plays and im sure Ray will let Cory try and carry the ball a little before he really looks to start moving pieces or panicking.
FAZOOL
New Jersey Devils
Location: Exit 80, NJ
Joined: 04.30.2012

Nov 4 @ 9:37 AM ET
Islanders are not a good team
- Pomegrant

Neither are we at the moment.
bikeguy99
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 09.05.2017

Nov 4 @ 12:24 PM ET
Mueller has been about the only pleasant surprise so far this season
- Senor_Elias


He certainly has been impressive thus far. Last year he looked like a total dud. He needs to take some of the TOI away from Greene, who has been struggling these past few games. We need to stop donating points and get back on the win train
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