Who is better defensively? Who is more responsible in their assignments? What has Hayden shown thus far that puts him head and shoulders above either of them? Because he is younger?

You don't think Q is going to do everything he possibly can to win with what he is given? I'm not saying Hayden is bad. I'm not even saying that he isn't better in the attributes I listed above. I'm saying I wouldn't get too caught up in which bottom six guy suits up on a given night.
- Chunk

Exactly. Also John Hayden is no great saviour, he's hardly and NHL player as is. There is hardly any difference between Hayden and Martinsen except age

Many of these prospects are too far away to even have them on the NHL radar. See: McNeill, Beach, and the litany of highly touted prospects across the league that never make it for what ever reason.

There was enough in the early game of those prospects that eventually went bust to be excited about until they began the journey up the totem pole.

I just think a guy who is off to play with the London Knights this year has some pole yet to climb, but yes, there are some things about his game today to be optimistic about.

McDavid, Matthews...those are transformational talents. But so was Lidstrom drafted 53rd overall.

I'm not seeing anyone yet in the org that is of that caliber.
- Return of the Roar

Two different arguments. Yes Matthews and McDavid were projected to be franchise players or franchise face changing players when they were picked in the draft...just like an Ovi, Sid, etc.

Lidstrom wasn't necessarily projected to be that which is why he was picked where he was, it's what he became. So it goes back to my original comment...who the hell knows?

Exactly. Also John Hayden is no great saviour, he's hardly and NHL player as is. There is hardly any difference between Hayden and Martinsen except age
- GPHawksfan

Hayden may be no savior but Martinsen at this point pretty much is what he is. Wouldn't you rather give Hayden a shot and see if his game can grow?

Many of these prospects are too far away to even have them on the NHL radar. See: McNeill, Beach, and the litany of highly touted prospects across the league that never make it for what ever reason.

There was enough in the early game of those prospects that eventually went bust to be excited about until they began the journey up the totem pole.

I just think a guy who is off to play with the London Knights this year has some pole yet to climb, but yes, there are some things about his game today to be optimistic about.

McDavid, Matthews...those are transformational talents. But so was Lidstrom drafted 53rd overall.

I'm not seeing anyone yet in the org that is of that caliber.
- Return of the Roar

Did you know Keith was gonna be a franchise dman when he was picked in the 2nd round? Or after the 2 years he played in the AHL? My guess is that you didn't. I doubt the scouts knew either. So who's to say none of these latest prospects won't become very good players?

Hayden may be no savior but Martinsen at this point pretty much is what he is. Wouldn't you rather give Hayden a shot and see if his game can grow?
- HawkintheD

John Hayden is who he is likely at this point too. Same with Connor Murphy, neither are very good impact players that will become markedly better.

Did you know Keith was gonna be a franchise dman when he was picked in the 2nd round? Or after the 2 years he played in the AHL? My guess is that you didn't. I doubt the scouts knew either. So who's to say none of these latest prospects won't become very good players?
- GPHawksfan

No and no, and you are right.

What I am getting at is that if they stink up the joint this season they have a shot at a player far more likely to be transformational and NHL ready next summer than anyone in the pipeline now, and that is what they need - someone quick to the team that can make an impact while on an ELC.

No and no, and you are right.

What I am getting at is that if they stink up the joint this season they have a shot at a player far more likely to be transformational and NHL ready next summer than anyone in the pipeline now, and that is what they need - someone quick to the team that can make an impact while on an ELC.
- Return of the Roar

I agree with you there, this likely isn't gonna be an overnight turn around for this team. The higher they pick should increase their chances though.

Do yourself a favor and watch a few games isolating your attention only on what Toews is doing in the O zone. Yes - eye test. Not even close to the player he was three seasons ago.

Schmaltz and ADB get many of their close proximity shots as a result of rushes after entry.

Kahun is in the top six more because he may be the best of who is left rather than if he really belongs there. More to come on him I suppose, but I'm not expecting Rick Nash in his prime type presence for sure. Sadly, that is what that line needs.

Saad - dude has a lot to prove this year. All the tools, but its in the results.
- Return of the Roar

Hmm neither Debrincat nor Schmaltz had high totals of their high danger shots on goal coming after rushes - Debrincat was under 30% and Schmaltz was under 40% (I can get exact numbers if needed). I remember Schmaltz's % is on par with many good players, including Kane, Laine, Crosby, McDavid isn't much higher (though both Crosby and McDavid shoot more in general and from in-close than both Schmaltz and Kane, Laine actually shoots generally farther out at like 28-30 ft). High offensive players who transition well just tend to have about these numbers.

Plus high danger shots are great but they're not actually where most goals are scored - that would be the mid-zone, the 10-15 ft out area just inside the dots. Debrincat tends to shoot more from everywhere on the ice with some concentration in the slot/scoring chance areas and Schmaltz tends to shoot in closer but shoot much less (looking for the best shot, prone to passing, hesitation, etc).

Did you know Keith was gonna be a franchise dman when he was picked in the 2nd round? Or after the 2 years he played in the AHL? My guess is that you didn't. I doubt the scouts knew either. So who's to say none of these latest prospects won't become very good players?
- GPHawksfan

Shaw also comes to mind especially as a late rounder.

Sikura, too. When the Hawks drafted him, I honestly didn't think he'd be an impact prospect let alone dominant in the NCAA. I know he got cut from camp last week but he's now the top prospect closest to the NHL (Jokiharju is already there and Boqvist got sent to juniors).

No and no, and you are right.

What I am getting at is that if they stink up the joint this season they have a shot at a player far more likely to be transformational and NHL ready next summer than anyone in the pipeline now, and that is what they need - someone quick to the team that can make an impact while on an ELC.
- Return of the Roar

Another thing to add to this is the team is kind of on the same trajectory as they were before they got really high picks. They drafted Keith and Seabrook a few years before they totally bottomed out and then got Toews and Kane. Now the got Jokiharu and Boqvist already and maybe this year or next might bottom out and get a top 3 pick or two. But at least this time they had some cups to show for it.

This was always going to happen and to those that thought this team should have won 7 or 8 cups (like I've seen posted on here before) that just was never going to happen.

Just another perspective on Martinsen. It's been talked about on these boards before that Q may favor him because he's an older player with experience who knows his role and limits and won't pout if he's press boxed for large stints.

Not saying Hayden will pout if he is a healthy scratch but there's still some he can learn perched above the ice with say Don Granato next to him. Who knows, Hayden could soon be the regular and Martinsen is the healthy scratch.

Also, contrast Martinsen and this supposed selfless approach to being a 12th/13th forward with Hartman who allegedly ran his mouth about playing time and where he and other teammates (Hinostroza?) were slotted.

Just another perspective on Martinsen. It's been talked about on these boards before that Q may favor him because he's an older player with experience who knows his role and limits and won't pout if he's press boxed for large stints.

Not saying Hayden will pout if he is a healthy scratch but there's still some he can learn perched above the ice with say Don Granato next to him. Who knows, Hayden could soon be the regular and Martinsen is the healthy scratch.

Also, contrast Martinsen and this supposed selfless approach to being a 12th/13th forward with Hartman who allegedly ran his mouth about playing time and where he and other teammates (Hinostroza?) were slotted.
- AEL_Fox

Who said Hartman ran his mouth about playing time?

Who said Hartman ran his mouth about playing time?
- L_B_R

"Sources"

The third line of Kampf~Anisimov~Kunitz ABSOLUTELY MUST DUMP and FORECHECK !! That is their strength .... if they try carrying it in, neutral zone turn overs to follow shortly. But this is ok ... not all lines should play the same, if they don't have the skill to do that. Forecheck -- cycle the puck --- back to the point and crash the net and good things will happen. Maybe the Hawks need a "change of pace" line

Who said Hartman ran his mouth about playing time?
- L_B_R

Read it somewhere as an alleged rumor right before and after he was traded. Can't remember the source. Could be untrue but I distinctly remember reading about it.

Shaw also comes to mind especially as a late rounder.

Sikura, too. When the Hawks drafted him, I honestly didn't think he'd be an impact prospect let alone dominant in the NCAA. I know he got cut from camp last week but he's now the top prospect closest to the NHL (Jokiharju is already there and Boqvist got sent to juniors).
- AEL_Fox

Dustin Byflugien was an 8th round pick. 245th overall. A good late round add.

Read it somewhere as an alleged rumor right before and after he was traded. Can't remember the source. Could be untrue but I distinctly remember reading about it.
- AEL_Fox

I definitely think there was something there and thought I'd read something as well. The one thing I can recall, was the whole Ryan Hartman liked the tweet that Richard Panik should be off the team. Gotta wonder if there was some locker room friction. I don't know about you, but I've never accidentally liked a tweet before.

Boqvist is probably going to be a player
- fattybeef

Agreed.... in Rockford.

Agreed.... in Rockford.
- DarthKane

*Sweden’s B league*

I definitely think there was something there and thought I'd read something as well. The one thing I can recall, was the whole Ryan Hartman liked the tweet that Richard Panik should be off the team. Gotta wonder if there was some locker room friction. I don't know about you, but I've never accidentally liked a tweet before.
- breadbag

I remember that tweet incident, too. I'll take Hartman on his word that he accidentally liked the tweet but it was still odd. Even if there was nothing to it, the optics of it all weren't good. Water under the bridge now since both players are no longer Hawks.

John Hayden is who he is likely at this point too. Same with Connor Murphy, neither are very good impact players that will become markedly better.
- GPHawksfan

After playing only 59 NHL games it might be a tad early to say Hayden has peaked. I haven't been the biggest Hayden fan, I thought it would have started the season in Rockford, but I believe he can show more than he has so far.

Is there a difference today between Hayden and Martinsen? Yes, maybe not much but there is. But the big difference is the future state of both guys. Hayden has more potential so it benefits the organization to give him a shot to show what he can do.

*Sweden’s B league*


- EnzoD

Yes.... after he fails in Rockford, which he will. I was just thinking one step at a time.

I definitely think there was something there and thought I'd read something as well. The one thing I can recall, was the whole Ryan Hartman liked the tweet that Richard Panik should be off the team. Gotta wonder if there was some locker room friction. I don't know about you, but I've never accidentally liked a tweet before.
- breadbag

I have lol. It's ridiculously common and esp easy to do on mobile because there is no confirmation on the action like there is for retweeting. Data shows that "reverse likes" on twitter and instagram (un-liking something within a 10 second span of liking it) are one of the highest interactions on both networks and twitter has noted that their biggest compliant in-terms of UX are unknown liked appearing in feeds (likely accidental likes).

Read it somewhere as an alleged rumor right before and after he was traded. Can't remember the source. Could be untrue but I distinctly remember reading about it.
- AEL_Fox

Idk about you guys, but I tend to not repeat rumors from random sources later. Even adding allegedly doesn't qualify it enough - that could have come from the sister of the mailman who delivers to cousin of an accountant who does taxes of one of the UC cleaning guys for all you know.

I have lol. It's ridiculously common and esp easy to do on mobile because there is no confirmation on the action like there is for retweeting. Data shows that "reverse likes" on twitter and instagram (un-liking something within a 10 second span of liking it) are one of the highest interactions on both networks and twitter has noted that their biggest compliant in-terms of UX are unknown liked appearing in feeds (likely accidental likes).
- L_B_R

I remember reading that Stamkos liked a tweet that claimed he was signing with Toronto a few summers ago....