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Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: Blackhawks Lose A Barn Burner
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Justin Lowe
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.31.2017

Sep 26 @ 10:27 AM ET
Justin Lowe: Blackhawks Lose A Barn Burner
The Hawks and Red Wings transformed to their 1980's selves as they accounted for 14 combined goals last night.

Chicago ended up on the losing end and there are a few areas that we will take a look at based on what the scoresheet says and what my eyes/brain were telling me as I watched this shootout.
breadbag
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 11.30.2015

Sep 26 @ 10:32 AM ET
Just gonna carry over the comment I made right before the new blog came up.

I've never been a big Ward fan.
Ward didn't have a good night.
He won't be an All-Star.
I think Forsberg might outplay him overall.

That said, it wasn't like the team helped him out much either and some credit goes to the quality of the shots.

Goal 1 was kind of a broken play where Seabrook/DeBrincat were there but failed to nail down the bouncing puck in front. It would have be great if Ward could have stopped it, but I wouldn't fault him on that one specifically.

Goal 2 didn't look good beating him on the glove, but it also went off Boqvist's stick on release and seems it changed direction. That one looked stoppable but more difficult that it probably looked in real time. Didn't help that the whole play was caused by a Saad turnover.

Goal 3 Kane/Boqvist combined to give the Wings a 3-1 rush. Ward made the initial stop, but this one wasn't on him at all.

Goal 4 was kind of bad coverage by AA line. Schmaltz went in support of Keith on the half boards and AA followed his man kind of deep which basically meant Kane was left trying to cover 2-3 guys up high. Ward should have probably had that one but similar to goal 2, there was Seabrook's stick in there right on the shot release. I'm not sure that Seabrook got much of it, but it seemed to waffle a bit on the way to the net. I still think Ward should have had this one.

Goal 5 was the one that was a rush to the net and batted out of the air by Witkowski. Boqvist couldn't really him slow down or tie him up in front and Kahun's man also drove the net. Kinda like the first one, not really Ward's fault. Would have been nice for him to grab that one, but it did deflect off two players before being batted out of the air and in.

Goal 6 was the pass Seabrook flubbed that hit the back of the net and caused the turnover and scramble in front. Davidson and AA got to the front, couldn't do much and everyone was fooled by Vanek's pass. This one was on Seabrook 110% and I don't think Ward had much chance.

It was a preseaon game and hopefully we get a better outing in the next one.
Justin Lowe
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.31.2017

Sep 26 @ 10:37 AM ET
Just gonna carry over the comment I made right before the new blog came up.

I've never been a big Ward fan.
Ward didn't have a good night.
He won't be an All-Star.
I think Forsberg might outplay him overall.

That said, it wasn't like the team helped him out much either and some credit goes to the quality of the shots.

Goal 1 was kind of a broken play where Seabrook/DeBrincat were there but failed to nail down the bouncing puck in front. It would have be great if Ward could have stopped it, but I wouldn't fault him on that one specifically.

Goal 2 didn't look good beating him on the glove, but it also went off Boqvist's stick on release and seems it changed direction. That one looked stoppable but more difficult that it probably looked in real time. Didn't help that the whole play was caused by a Saad turnover.

Goal 3 Kane/Boqvist combined to give the Wings a 3-1 rush. Ward made the initial stop, but this one wasn't on him at all.

Goal 4 was kind of bad coverage by AA line. Schmaltz went in support of Keith on the half boards and AA followed his man kind of deep which basically meant Kane was left trying to cover 2-3 guys up high. Ward should have probably had that one but similar to goal 2, there was Seabrook's stick in there right on the shot release. I'm not sure that Seabrook got much of it, but it seemed to waffle a bit on the way to the net. I still think Ward should have had this one.

Goal 5 was the one that was a rush to the net and batted out of the air by Witkowski. Boqvist couldn't really him slow down or tie him up in front and Kahun's man also drove the net. Kinda like the first one, not really Ward's fault. Would have been nice for him to grab that one, but it did deflect off two players before being batted out of the air and in.

Goal 6 was the pass Seabrook flubbed that hit the back of the net and caused the turnover and scramble in front. Davidson and AA got to the front, couldn't do much and everyone was fooled by Vanek's pass. This one was on Seabrook 110% and I don't think Ward had much chance.

It was a preseaon game and hopefully we get a better outing in the next one.

- breadbag



I've never minded Ward, but he was not good last night.

Forsberg has a chance at some redemption from last year if Ward falters out of the gate.

SoftServe
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Bensenville, IL
Joined: 01.19.2016

Sep 26 @ 10:41 AM ET
So Kahun and Kampf are locks imo. It comes down to Sikura, Hayden, Martinsen and L. Johnson now after the most recent set of forward cuts, correct?
breadbag
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 11.30.2015

Sep 26 @ 10:44 AM ET
I've never minded Ward, but he was not good last night.

Forsberg has a chance at some redemption from last year if Ward falters out of the gate.

- Justin Lowe


I think Ward wasn't good, but I could also see many of those goals going in against other better goalies as well.
Return of the Roar
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Solidly grounded in reality, IL
Joined: 07.27.2009

Sep 26 @ 10:51 AM ET
Same old same old.

Stick checking weak on the puck D guys actually become pinball bumpers for deflections, which are hard for anyone to stop.

Stick checking weak on the puck forwards who cannot hold possession in the O zone depending on pinches by D guys and going out of position, creating odd man breaks the other way.

This team does not have the pieces to play the scheme the coaches have committed to.

As for Ward, as another poster nicely evaluated, many of these were not on him. The speed of the game makes inadvertent deflections even more dangerous than they used to be. I would sure like to see more taking of the body than focusing on stick work.
Justin Lowe
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.31.2017

Sep 26 @ 10:53 AM ET
So Kahun and Kampf are locks imo. It comes down to Sikura, Hayden, Martinsen and L. Johnson now after the most recent set of forward cuts, correct?
- SoftServe


Correct. These last couple of games could determine where they net out.

I heard the Hawks really need to see more out of Sikura or he's heading to Rockford to "find his game".
Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

Sep 26 @ 11:00 AM ET
These stats are not secondary - they're underlying, typically task/result based. Was there a shot on goal (location, type, situation), was there a pass (where did it come from, where did it go), was there zone entry/exit (carry in, pass, dump), was their a puck battle (location, success, situation), when and where a player is deployed, etc etc. They're "advanced" in that they're more than just counting stats, that's all. I typically shy away from that term as well - just stats and micro (passing, transition, etc).

But either way, they're literally just putting numbers to the events that naturally happen in hockey. Coaches have been breakdown plays for decades, how is it weird someone would want to quantify that? Lots of people on this board do this naturally in a more descriptive, qualitative way. They can tell you some of the what and why, give you a look at what happened, if you put them altogether and in addition to watching the game. No one should base their entire analysis off them, which no one (myself include) claims, but ignoring them completely is silly since you're leaving out a big chuck of usable info. Analysis of the stats can differ the same way opinions of just watching can differ.

Also disagree with your conclusion on Keith (and McDavid) but that's a debate I don't care to get into. You're allowed your opinion and I'm allowed mine, after all, and I've written enough novels for a bit.
- L_B_R


Sure they are secondary stats. “Underlying” stats are by definition secondary stats. That is why they are “underlying.” The only reason anyone called them “advanced” was to give them credibility that they did not inherently deserve. It was self-serving - a name created by people benefitting. It is like “capology” that requires a “capologist.” The “cap” is less challenging than balancing a monthly house budget.

Also I never said to ignore these stats. I said they can SOMETIMES give additional information on a certain player but only when such analysis is tied to common-sense.

Regarding Keith and McDavid I am simply right. Keith babysitted for the first time and it ate him alive. Now as a by-product of that he had secondary stats unseen before. +/- itself is actually an interesting stat. A D-Man can actually play well and be dragged into a poor +/- by the poor play of his partner. In the same way a D-Man may have a great +/- due in large part to the exemplary play of his partner. Players have even lead the NHL in +/- while not being truly deserving. Regarding McDavid I don’t have to read into his stats at all. He scored the vast majority of his points in meaningless games. Whatever deficiencies or positives the Oilers had as a team existed throughout the season. The issue that changed was the meaningfulness of the games. The great McDavid may find his superman status questioned sooner than later as he was not impactful for Canada at the 2018 Worlds’ either. He was certainly not Canada’s best player.
SoftServe
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Bensenville, IL
Joined: 01.19.2016

Sep 26 @ 11:04 AM ET
Correct. These last couple of games could determine where they net out.

I heard the Hawks really need to see more out of Sikura or he's heading to Rockford to "find his game".

- Justin Lowe



They should slot him in opposite of Saad next game if they decide to keep Saad on the third line. Also, do you think Jokiharju and Boq get in a game together? Not the same line, but playing in the same game
Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

Sep 26 @ 11:07 AM ET
Justin Lowe: Blackhawks Lose A Barn Burner

The Hawks and Red Wings transformed to their 1980's selves as they accounted for 14 combined goals last night.

Chicago ended up on the losing end and there are a few areas that we will take a look at based on what the scoresheet says and what my eyes/brain were telling me as I watched this shootout.

- Justin Lowe

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Ward was awful followed by Forsberg who was awful. Having said this, that does not mean other players didn’t make mistakes - in fact there was some total gaffes. However, the huge takeaway from the game should be that be that the goaltending was awful again quite close to the season beginning. Ward himself found his performance “embarrassing.”
67hawks
Joined: 08.30.2012

Sep 26 @ 11:10 AM ET
Slide as many contracts as are possible until this mess is cleaned up. And that 6.25M wasted during free agency was entirely unnecessary. We have new found cap space, but if it is to be used this way no advantage has been created for the assets that were given away to build that space.
AEL_Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: CA
Joined: 06.18.2016

Sep 26 @ 11:14 AM ET
Same old same old.

Stick checking weak on the puck D guys actually become pinball bumpers for deflections, which are hard for anyone to stop.

Stick checking weak on the puck forwards who cannot hold possession in the O zone depending on pinches by D guys and going out of position, creating odd man breaks the other way.

This team does not have the pieces to play the scheme the coaches have committed to.

As for Ward, as another poster nicely evaluated, many of these were not on him. The speed of the game makes inadvertent deflections even more dangerous than they used to be. I would sure like to see more taking of the body than focusing on stick work.

- Return of the Roar

Agree with you to a good extent that the team needs to take the body more as a defensive move and not rely so heavily on stick checking. Stick checking has it's utility when used at appropriate times and in appropriate areas of the ice but it can do more harm than good if used exclusively and especially in danger zones near your goalie. Breadbag's analysis of all goals that got past Ward illustrate some good examples of stick checking backfiring against the Hawks.

Some goalies actually hate it when their defenders stick check in front of them because all they're doing is creating additional deflection opportunities for the other team.

Similarly, some goalies would rather their teammates not try to block shots unless they are as certain as possible that they'll be successful. Otherwise the teammate is creating a screen for the opponent to shield the goalie's sight lines.
kmw4631
Location: CHICAGO
Joined: 02.27.2015

Sep 26 @ 11:15 AM ET
maybe since I gave up hockey before people fought I just do not understand but if I was a opposing player I would be more tentative going up and down the ice knowing a fast skater is going to hit me legally then worried about some slow goon who might want to drop the gloves? It seems like it is from the stone ages. plus you can get a instigation penalty which would negate a earlier penalty if in fact the hawks drew one for a bad hit ETC. Let Hayden and Martinsen go up and down the ice and hit people!!! and put kunitz who is so slow on the D he has to take penalties. I'm all for players that go in the corners and go in front of the net and hit legally hit people. I do not like players whos only role is dropping the gloves. I do agree that if you are a elite team with with a 3rd line better then most 2nds then you can have a 4th goon line that plays 6 mins per night but the hawks are not that team anymore and need production out of all 4 lines (vegas). I think this is both Stans and Q last year. Stan signing Ward, Manning and Kunitz looks like a D-, and Q lines look like the same old Q who is smarter then anyone else and refuses to look at the play on the ice and have any vision about where a player is now and how (while there could be growing pains) better to put guys out with higher celings and have them do some good and bad with the hope they get better then put bad players on the ice since they make less mistakes but also cannot do anything positive either. IE he would rather put a Vet who is going to be a -1 every night and take a lot of penalties then a younger guy who might have a game of +2 one game and -2 the next. is there a stat anywhere that shows how many PP goals were given up after a player put the team on PK?
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Sep 26 @ 11:18 AM ET
Slide as many contracts as are possible until this mess is cleaned up. And that 6.25M wasted during free agency was entirely unnecessary. We have new found cap space, but if it is to be used this way no advantage has been created for the assets that were given away to build that space.
- 67hawks


Don't forget the long-term effects of the "new found cap space" - it doesn't all have to be used this season - some for AdB and Schmaltz, some for maybe better / more long term UFAs going forward - hopefully, there is a plan for the future that allows for spending as much as is needed to get this franchise back to the top.

As for the 6.25MM - who cares - doesn't effect what they can do going forward (only Manning's contract extends after this season) or what they want to do for this season. Question is only - can Ward, Manning, Kunitz be helpful this season or not - what they are being paid is irrelevant at this point.

I think we should stop worrying about caps and cap hits and Toews / Kane's 10.5MM and Seabrooks "bad" deal - again, question is, can they be contributors through the remainders of their contracts or not. The Hawks seem to be in at least a decent position with cap space for now and for the next couple of years.

Maybe....
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: I love sarcasm.
Joined: 02.23.2012

Sep 26 @ 11:26 AM ET


HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Sep 26 @ 11:27 AM ET
Too small! Trade him for a big bruiser. Why on earth did Blowman choose a small pip squeak yet again? Who needs skill? Who needs speed? This is a man's game, a defenceman should be a minimum of 6'2" 210 and ideally bigger. Show me one defenceman who didn't hit and fight who ever amounted to anything? The Hawks need players that can hit, they need players that can fight, they need redass!!
- paulr


DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: I love sarcasm.
Joined: 02.23.2012

Sep 26 @ 11:31 AM ET
So Kahun and Kampf are locks imo. It comes down to Sikura, Hayden, Martinsen and L. Johnson now after the most recent set of forward cuts, correct?
- SoftServe



Agreed. I think the Hawks have been pushing Hayden so he stays. Martisen should go to Rockford and that leaves Sikura vs. Johnson. Unless something drastically changes in the last couple games I think Sikura starts in Rockford, but I expect him to get an early call-up and stick with the team for good. Johnson will make the team (as predicted by me previously) and stick with the team in a bottom 6 capacity all season.

Kahun seems to be filling the top 6 void, at least for now.
GPHawksfan
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Grande Prairie, AB
Joined: 01.26.2018

Sep 26 @ 11:34 AM ET
Duncan Keith.
GPHawksfan
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Grande Prairie, AB
Joined: 01.26.2018

Sep 26 @ 11:34 AM ET

- HawkintheD

Duncan Keith.
I Am The Breadman
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Richton Park, IL
Joined: 09.16.2018

Sep 26 @ 11:35 AM ET
I did my assessment through and after, but great write-up, J-Lowe. It is great getting another set of eyes on what happened, good or bad.

Seeing the whole kid line go down at once sucks. 2 of those 3 were great last night. Ejdsell was not. Fortin got ripped off, he should have been given a penalty shot. Q designs his roster, it seems to me, like they are already set in stone. All kids go down, minus Johnson who earned it. I think Kahun earned his spot, but he got a big chance after chance after chance becayse he could be in Germany. I still say he earned it, but got better opportunities. Vets, they have their spots. Really, who is holding their breath with anticipation for Martinsen? Give me a break. The Q loyalty is in high effect.
wingz4life
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Canada Sucks, MI
Joined: 01.31.2006

Sep 26 @ 11:36 AM ET
Boqvist looked ok. Good play on preventing AA from getting a breakaway on the PK. But yes, he did get muscled out on plays a lot. Hes also only 18...

hard to stick check AA, you have to get physical with him or he will go right around and put up 4 pts like he did last night, very dynamic skater.
GPHawksfan
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Grande Prairie, AB
Joined: 01.26.2018

Sep 26 @ 11:41 AM ET
I did my assessment through and after, but great write-up, J-Lowe. It is great getting another set of eyes on what happened, good or bad.

Seeing the whole kid line go down at once sucks. 2 of those 3 were great last night. Ejdsell was not. Fortin got ripped off, he should have been given a penalty shot. Q designs his roster, it seems to me, like they are already set in stone. All kids go down, minus Johnson who earned it. I think Kahun earned his spot, but he got a big chance after chance after chance becayse he could be in Germany. I still say he earned it, but got better opportunities. Vets, they have their spots. Really, who is holding their breath with anticipation for Martinsen? Give me a break. The Q loyalty is in high effect.

- I Am The Breadman

So he sends All the kids down, and never gives them a chance, but keeps Johnson? Right.
paulr
Chicago Blackhawks
Location:
Joined: 06.26.2011

Sep 26 @ 11:41 AM ET
I did my assessment through and after, but great write-up, J-Lowe. It is great getting another set of eyes on what happened, good or bad.

Seeing the whole kid line go down at once sucks. 2 of those 3 were great last night. Ejdsell was not. Fortin got ripped off, he should have been given a penalty shot. Q designs his roster, it seems to me, like they are already set in stone. All kids go down, minus Johnson who earned it. I think Kahun earned his spot, but he got a big chance after chance after chance becayse he could be in Germany. I still say he earned it, but got better opportunities. Vets, they have their spots. Really, who is holding their breath with anticipation for Martinsen? Give me a break. The Q loyalty is in high effect.

- I Am The Breadman


Q hates kids!
kwolf68
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Mt. Lebanon, PA
Joined: 12.18.2010

Sep 26 @ 11:43 AM ET
Q was spotted wearing this shirt today

Beaver-Warrior
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: A new era of Blackhawks hockey
Joined: 07.28.2011

Sep 26 @ 11:46 AM ET
I'm not thrilled by AA centering 8 and 88. He seems to put a brake on their speed.
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