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Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: The Week That Shaped a Team
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I Am The Breadman
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Richton Park, IL
Joined: 09.16.2018

Sep 24 @ 4:07 PM ET
I get it its the Rorschach test
I see a scorpion, Mickey Mouse, Owl, the big dipper, and a Question mark

- riozzo


Results say you are clinically insane.
L_B_R
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.23.2014

Sep 24 @ 4:07 PM ET
A huge part of puck possession is having the strength to fend off defenders along the boards and below the goal line in the O-zone. Hossa, Toews, Saad, and Sharp, Bickell, Vermette, Handzus, Frolik, Bolland, Ladd, Bfyuglien are not "goons" or guys who throw their body a ton, but they were both skilled AND strong on the puck. Sikura, Cat, Schmaltz, and Kahun have skill, but do not have the strength necessary to have the dominant o-zone cycle game that made the Hawks so good.

Hawks need more guys with the skill and size combo. This isn't the Euro league ice surface or playing style..which Stan Bowman seems to forget.

- EnzoD

Tbf not all those guys were regularly top 6, which was primarily what the discussion was about, but we can open it to the whole team if need be.

I do have to ask: how do you know Kahun doesn't have the strength? That's not snarky btw, genuine question. He's been great on the cycle in the pre-games so far - I assumed that was why Q likes him a lot. He reminds me a but of Tyler Johnson, but faster and with better hands, maybe not as defensively capable but who knows. Debrincat too was quite strong for his size last season, willing to be in corners and maintained possession well through traffic. It helps that he's pretty slippery and can find space. Bolland and Kruger have been between 180-185 with the Hawks (Frolik was sub-190 with the Hawks as well), which is all of 5-10 pounds heavier than like Kahun, Johnson, and Sikura, but all those latter guys are quicker and some are more skilled. I wouldn't write off Kahun or Johnson due to their size when it comes to being able to cycle - that seems to be a big part of their styles.

They also have Anisimov, Toews, and Saad still in the top 6 with average to above average size and willing to put in the work in the dirty areas. Then there is Kampf, Hayden, Kunitz, Martinsen, and such to round out the team with some decent if not huge size.

Schmaltz and Sikura are definitely more like Kane players when it comes to plays downlow/along the boards. That's not a bad thing, it's just a different balance. Sikura did score most of his goals in college in close, so he's at least willing to go to the net, if that translates to the NHL.

Would I like a little more size / strength to go in the top 6? For sure, but we should probably let some of these guys play an actual game before we dismiss them simply because they're lighter.
I Am The Breadman
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Richton Park, IL
Joined: 09.16.2018

Sep 24 @ 4:11 PM ET
This is newsworthy?
- powerenforcer






Homer says, "tell me something I don't know."
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Sep 24 @ 4:15 PM ET
A huge part of puck possession is having the strength to fend off defenders along the boards and below the goal line in the O-zone. Hossa, Toews, Saad, and Sharp, Bickell, Vermette, Handzus, Frolik, Bolland, Ladd, Bfyuglien are not "goons" or guys who throw their body a ton, but they were both skilled AND strong on the puck. Sikura, Cat, Schmaltz, and Kahun have skill, but do not have the strength necessary to have the dominant o-zone cycle game that made the Hawks so good.

Hawks need more guys with the skill and size combo. This isn't the Euro league ice surface or playing style..which Stan Bowman seems to forget.

- EnzoD

I get what you're saying and agree with you to some extent. Breadbag's response to my post articulates it very well. I was going to say the same thing so I'll just let Breadbag's post stand for itself.

In a similar vein, yesterday's boards talked a lot about faceoffs and LBR shared advanced stats and comparisons that were helpful in putting in to perspective the notion that Anisimov and Schmaltz are "bad" at faceoffs when many elite centers aren't great at it either. If you lose a faceoff, what matters more is everyone (not just the center) getting it back and hold on to it.
EbonyRaptor
Joined: 03.28.2013

Sep 24 @ 4:16 PM ET
Toews 6'2" 205lbs
Hossa 6'1 210lbs
Saad 6'1 205lbs
Sharp 6'1 200lbs
Handzus 6'5" 215lbs
Bryan Bickell 6'4" 225lbs
Vermette 6'1" 200lbs


Sikura 5'11 158lbs
Debrincat 5'7" 165lb
Schmaltz 6' 175lb
Kahun 5'11 175lbs

- EnzoD


The topic was not enough sandpaper - not aggregate weight. Which of those 2013/2015 guys would qualify as sandpaper? I would say none.
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

Sep 24 @ 4:43 PM ET
Anything swirling around about potential trades? Or all quiet for now and waiting to see?
Tyler Cameron
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.31.2017

Sep 24 @ 4:50 PM ET
Anything swirling around about potential trades? Or all quiet for now and waiting to see?
- Scott1977


Wait and see is what I'm hearing.
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Sep 24 @ 4:51 PM ET
Anything swirling around about potential trades? Or all quiet for now and waiting to see?
- Scott1977

Although I personally don't think the Hawks need him, I have wondered if Faulk is staying in Carolina. The Canes defense is really strong top to bottom. Not sure if Faulk is the odd one out still after all those early summer rumors.
bhawks2241
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 09.17.2013

Sep 24 @ 5:01 PM ET
Saad played well in Columbus. I did not hear anything about why he was moved to the third line. My best guess is Coach Q was just mixing guys around to have a look. I don't think he was put there for performance reasons. I like having him on the third line if they can put the right mix of players there. Having 3 scoring lines is harder to match up against.
- Hawks_For_Life



He was demoted to the 4th line in Columbus for a while if I remember. He absolutely stunk last year. He was brought in here to play with Toews and help Toews raise his game.

He can't do that on the 3rd line. Bottom line is Saad played like a borderline 2/3rd line player last year and did nothing to elevate Toews game or compliment it. The Hawks don't have enough top 6 forwards as-is. The Hawks don't have the proven forward depth to construct 3 scoring lines and a checking line like the cup years.
I Am The Breadman
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Richton Park, IL
Joined: 09.16.2018

Sep 24 @ 5:03 PM ET
Wait and see is what I'm hearing.
- Justin Lowe


I really don't see them as done. I mean they aren't great in any one area, but I wonder where Bowman would even look and for who. His recent trading buddies haven't been great. Minus losing Hossa's contract.
L_B_R
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.23.2014

Sep 24 @ 5:11 PM ET
Although I personally don't think the Hawks need him, I have wondered if Faulk is staying in Carolina. The Canes defense is really strong top to bottom. Not sure if Faulk is the odd one out still after all those early summer rumors.
- AEL_Fox

There is no rush to move him since his deal still has two years on it.

They originally wanted to move him for either a young top 6 center or a bigger top 6 winger. They got additional wings in Svechnikov (draft), Ferland (trade), and Zykov (graduation), but their need of a center is still iffy. It really depends on how well Aho does there vs at wing like the last two seasons. Necas is penciled in for the top 9 helps, but Rask being out indefinitely due to a non-hockey injury does not.
L_B_R
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.23.2014

Sep 24 @ 5:20 PM ET
He was demoted to the 4th line in Columbus for a while if I remember. He absolutely stunk last year. He was brought in here to play with Toews and help Toews raise his game.

He can't do that on the 3rd line. Bottom line is Saad played like a borderline 2/3rd line player last year and did nothing to elevate Toews game or compliment it. The Hawks don't have enough top 6 forwards as-is. The Hawks don't have the proven forward depth to construct 3 scoring lines and a checking line like the cup years.

- bhawks2241

Saad had the 2nd and 3rd highest TOI at 5v5 in Columbus his two seasons, so if he was dropped to the 4th line, it was for so short a time it didn't impact his TOI at all. In fact, there are only two games in which Saad is under 14 minutes (12:59 2016-17, 13:49 2015-16) while in Columbus - most games he was between 16-19 minutes. The narrative he was dropped to the 4th line is weak.

Also, production being down =/= a player actually played poorly. Saad had some of the best individual metrics in the league last season but a career low sh%.

Saad was brought back because he's a strong defensive forward, something the Hawks were (and still maybe are) lacking, esp the top 9, and his contract had more term (and Panarin likely wasn't going to sign again in two seasons).
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Sep 24 @ 5:52 PM ET
Saad had the 2nd and 3rd highest TOI at 5v5 in Columbus his two seasons, so if he was dropped to the 4th line, it was for so short a time it didn't impact his TOI at all. In fact, there are only two games in which Saad is under 14 minutes (12:59 2016-17, 13:49 2015-16) while in Columbus - most games he was between 16-19 minutes. The narrative he was dropped to the 4th line is weak.

Also, production being down =/= a player actually played poorly. Saad had some of the best individual metrics in the league last season but a career low sh%.

Saad was brought back because he's a strong defensive forward, something the Hawks were (and still maybe are) lacking, esp the top 9, and his contract had more term (and Panarin likely wasn't going to sign again in two seasons).

- L_B_R

That's what I thought, too, that Saad's advanced metrics didn't paint a crappy year for him. He was still productive but just didn't have the gross stats to match. His below average shooting percentage was a major culprit last season for his huge dip in goal total, so a player his age should see a market correction (in the positive direction, of course).
Taylorst1
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 07.09.2018

Sep 24 @ 5:52 PM ET
So if the hawks don't feel confident in their top 6 players or guys whom might need more time in Rockford to develop, and Saad doesn't show a turn around. Would Chicago maybe put a package of saad, Anisomov , rutta or Gustafson and maybe edsel? For Duchene, Stone and ceci ?

Duchene can center Kane and schmaltz
While stone ,toews and debrincant would be affective
And ceci can eat up top 4 minutes on defense?





What's everyone's thoughts?
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Sep 24 @ 6:00 PM ET
Saad had the 2nd and 3rd highest TOI at 5v5 in Columbus his two seasons, so if he was dropped to the 4th line, it was for so short a time it didn't impact his TOI at all. In fact, there are only two games in which Saad is under 14 minutes (12:59 2016-17, 13:49 2015-16) while in Columbus - most games he was between 16-19 minutes. The narrative he was dropped to the 4th line is weak.

Also, production being down =/= a player actually played poorly. Saad had some of the best individual metrics in the league last season but a career low sh%.

Saad was brought back because he's a strong defensive forward, something the Hawks were (and still maybe are) lacking, esp the top 9, and his contract had more term (and Panarin likely wasn't going to sign again in two seasons).

- L_B_R


Also, 2241 mentions proven fwd depth. Panarin was an unknown when he came here and to many posters, Hossa appeared to be trending down and had a nice rebound season his final year.

I’d still like to see how things play out and would prefer Bowman holds onto his cards as opposed to plugging holes we can only assume need filled.
hereismike1
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 09.06.2018

Sep 24 @ 6:01 PM ET
So if the hawks don't feel confident in their top 6 players or guys whom might need more time in Rockford to develop, and Saad doesn't show a turn around. Would Chicago maybe put a package of saad, Anisomov , rutta or Gustafson and maybe edsel? For Duchene, Stone and ceci ?

Duchene can center Kane and schmaltz
While stone ,toews and debrincant would be affective
And ceci can eat up top 4 minutes on defense?





What's everyone's thoughts?

- Taylorst1


I think that the trade you are proposing is so one sided that it is completely unrealistic.

The Ottawa GM would be burned at the stake in the city square for making that deal.

Not to mention, adding Stone or Duchesne would add another large salary to our already impressive collection of large salaried players whom we cannot move. So at that point you would probably have to pick whom you were not going to keep between Dcat and Schmaltz to add one of those players.

I don't see it as likely because I don't think the hawks have the excess chips to make such a deal. Nor should they trade futures like first round picks. They could easily have a lottery pick until such time they develop an above average goaltender, if Crawford cannot go anymore.
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Sep 24 @ 6:05 PM ET
There is no rush to move him since his deal still has two years on it.

They originally wanted to move him for either a young top 6 center or a bigger top 6 winger. They got additional wings in Svechnikov (draft), Ferland (trade), and Zykov (graduation), but their need of a center is still iffy. It really depends on how well Aho does there vs at wing like the last two seasons. Necas is penciled in for the top 9 helps, but Rask being out indefinitely due to a non-hockey injury does not.

- L_B_R

Thanks for the insight. I'm sure it was just a placeholder but the Hockey News had the Canes top line as Ferland with Aho and Teravainen. In due time, I'd think Svechnikov, Zykov, or Necas will replace Ferland on the top line (not sure what forward positions each of them plays).

Or the Hockey News really shouldn't list Ferland as a 1st liner and just doesn't know what they're talking about some of the time.
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

Sep 24 @ 6:14 PM ET
So if the hawks don't feel confident in their top 6 players or guys whom might need more time in Rockford to develop, and Saad doesn't show a turn around. Would Chicago maybe put a package of saad, Anisomov , rutta or Gustafson and maybe edsel? For Duchene, Stone and ceci ?

Duchene can center Kane and schmaltz
While stone ,toews and debrincant would be affective
And ceci can eat up top 4 minutes on defense?





What's everyone's thoughts?

- Taylorst1

Pipedream
L_B_R
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.23.2014

Sep 24 @ 6:30 PM ET
Thanks for the insight. I'm sure it was just a placeholder but the Hockey News had the Canes top line as Ferland with Aho and Teravainen. In due time, I'd think Svechnikov, Zykov, or Necas will replace Ferland on the top line (not sure what forward positions each of them plays).

Or the Hockey News really shouldn't list Ferland as a 1st liner and just doesn't know what they're talking about some of the time.

- AEL_Fox

Hockey News is hit or miss when it comes to content, more miss than not imo. They definitely had more than a handful of top lines ~wrong.

A lot of Canes fans are still iffy on whether Aho will be played at center yet or that he'll do well there but it was his draft position and where he's played in the pre-season. He's their Schmaltz in some ways - similar size, year difference in age, debated on whether center or wing is ideal. He's been split up from Teravainen much of the pre-season.

Svechnikov and Zykov are wingers (right and left respectfully) - both have been played with Aho mostly. I think the Canes are hoping they'll build some Russian chemistry together.

Nečas is the guy they really want to develop into their 1/2C but he's only 19. They seem to be happy with him at 3C for the moment - he's been with Teravainen as his primary wing.

Ferland is injured so idk where they might slot him.
Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

Sep 24 @ 6:50 PM ET
Can’t see it being a message to Saad. He seemed to have worked very hard this off-season. Saad needs to be relied upon as a Beast who can drive a line. I’ve always said I have wanted Saad to play his off-wing Right Wing shooting Left. Easier to use his obvious strength to attack the net at an easier angle. Put him with Toews. Saad with Kane has the problem that Saad must play Left Wing shooting Left and cannot open up for one-timers which Kane loves - see Panarin. Schmaltz is a Left Wing who shoots Right so he can open up for one-timers. Takes more than that though as it is getting available for the one-timer that is the magic, what is most important.
bhawks2241
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 09.17.2013

Sep 24 @ 6:51 PM ET
Also, 2241 mentions proven fwd depth. Panarin was an unknown when he came here and to many posters, Hossa appeared to be trending down and had a nice rebound season his final year.

I’d still like to see how things play out and would prefer Bowman holds onto his cards as opposed to plugging holes we can only assume need filled.

- HawkintheD



Agreed. We may have some nice young pieces. I just don't see this team having the depth to spread out the wealth to 3 scoring lines. Kahun looks like he might be a good find.

If Saad may have had great advanced stats last year that is all fine and dandy but he did not look good last year at all. Bottom line is he needs to produce points. You don't produce points as a top 6 forward you don't win games. I didn't see Saad making impact plays night in night out last year.

Tyler Cameron
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.31.2017

Sep 24 @ 6:52 PM ET
I really don't see them as done. I mean they aren't great in any one area, but I wonder where Bowman would even look and for who. His recent trading buddies haven't been great. Minus losing Hossa's contract.
- I Am The Breadman


I've heard they want to see what they have in these younger players and see if they can spark this team (including the core). It sounds like they are banking on that Vegas mentality in the sense that mostly everyone is counting them out.

They have a winning pedigree in the Hawks' dressing room still... but do they have the skill? I will evaluate that on Wednesday.
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

Sep 24 @ 6:58 PM ET
I've heard they want to see what they have in these younger players and see if they can spark this team (including the core). It sounds like they are banking on that Vegas mentality in the sense that mostly everyone is counting them out.

They have a winning pedigree in the Hawks' dressing room still... but do they have the skill? I will evaluate that on Wednesday.

- Justin Lowe

IMO they another top 6 forward with size speed and physical or some combination like that. Also d is thin any chance hawks talk to anahiem about ritchie?
Hawks_For_Life
Joined: 02.09.2011

Sep 24 @ 7:02 PM ET
FORWARDS
Saad - Toews - Debrincat - Toews has 20 to help in corners, 12 as sniper
Schmaltz - Anisimov - Kane - Best pair for 88 to take advantage of his skills
Kunitz - Kahun - Sikura - Kunitz can help mentor 2 skilled kids
Hayden - Kruger - Kamph - 2 centers that can win draws and grit with 40

Extras: Martinsen and Johnson - Toughness that can skate.

DEFENSE - Let the kids play if they prove ready after 9 games.
Keith - Jokijarju - The 19 year old will learn from Duncs and only get better
Gus - Seabrook - Decent chemistry in the past.
Rutta - Boquist - The 18 year old will only get better.

7th "D" - Manning - 6/7 should be his role.

GOALIES - Until Crawford returns then Forsberg goes to Rockford.
Ward - Hurry up Crow!!
Forsberg - Hurry up Crow!!

- ChicagoHope


I like it.
bhawks2241
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 09.17.2013

Sep 24 @ 7:02 PM ET
Saad had the 2nd and 3rd highest TOI at 5v5 in Columbus his two seasons, so if he was dropped to the 4th line, it was for so short a time it didn't impact his TOI at all. In fact, there are only two games in which Saad is under 14 minutes (12:59 2016-17, 13:49 2015-16) while in Columbus - most games he was between 16-19 minutes. The narrative he was dropped to the 4th line is weak.

Also, production being down =/= a player actually played poorly. Saad had some of the best individual metrics in the league last season but a career low sh%.

Saad was brought back because he's a strong defensive forward, something the Hawks were (and still maybe are) lacking, esp the top 9, and his contract had more term (and Panarin likely wasn't going to sign again in two seasons).

- L_B_R


I wasn't creating a narrative. That is what was reported when he was on Columbus. If TOI stats say otherwise then he wasn't demoted much. You can have all the nice fancy stats you want but at the end of the day it is about production in the top 6.

Saad was brought back to play with Toews and help that line drive possession and produce. Saad also started 60% of his 5 on 5 shifts in the Ozone. That helps the fancy stats. If it was a player not named Saad or Toews half the board would crucify him. Saad had a horrible year period.

Anisimov had the same production as Saad last year. Played PK too if I recall and started 53% of his shifts in the Ozone. People want to run him out of town. As far as I am concerned he had a much more productive year then Saad all things considered.
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