How many players fit that role of providing sandpaper in the top 6 when we won the last 2 cups?

I was trying to find out the lineups they started with for the cup finals.
- Hawks_For_Life

Well we know 4 of the 6 in both 2013 and 2015 were Toews, Kane, Hossa and Saad. Handzus was the 2C in 2013 and Brad Richard in 2015. The 6th guy was a combination of Sharp, Bickel and Vermette and out of that bunch only Bickel had "sandpaper" and even he wouldn't be considered a real sandpaper guy.

FORWARDS
Saad - Toews - Debrincat - Toews has 20 to help in corners, 12 as sniper
Schmaltz - Anisimov - Kane - Best pair for 88 to take advantage of his skills
Kunitz - Kahun - Sikura - Kunitz can help mentor 2 skilled kids
Hayden - Kruger - Kamph - 2 centers that can win draws and grit with 40

Extras: Martinsen and Johnson - Toughness that can skate.

DEFENSE - Let the kids play if they prove ready after 9 games.
Keith - Jokijarju - The 19 year old will learn from Duncs and only get better
Gus - Seabrook - Decent chemistry in the past.
Rutta - Boquist - The 18 year old will only get better.

7th "D" - Manning - 6/7 should be his role.

GOALIES - Until Crawford returns then Forsberg goes to Rockford.
Ward - Hurry up Crow!!
Forsberg - Hurry up Crow!!

This team can't afford to not have Crawford for the first month.

I agree 100%! And to top it off Kane goes out and loses weight. The Hawks don't need anymore skill and speed, they need redass. Skill for show, redass for dough.
- paulr

Look who's back from hibernation?!

I think Ward will play better than most people think. The problem with Forsberg is that he fails at exactly the wrong moment time after time. By the time the first 20 games goes by 19 should be making folks feel better about him. Hard to believe there was any gm rated lower than ours.

This team can't afford to not have Crawford for the first month.
- ObeseOprah

At least they open against the Senators?

Well we know 4 of the 6 in both 2013 and 2015 were Toews, Kane, Hossa and Saad. Handzus was the 2C in 2013 and Brad Richard in 2015. The 6th guy was a combination of Sharp, Bickel and Vermette and out of that bunch only Bickel had "sandpaper" and even he wouldn't be considered a real sandpaper guy.
- EbonyRaptor

Toews 6'2" 205lbs
Hossa 6'1 210lbs
Saad 6'1 205lbs
Sharp 6'1 200lbs
Handzus 6'5" 215lbs
Bryan Bickell 6'4" 225lbs
Vermette 6'1" 200lbs


Sikura 5'11 158lbs
Debrincat 5'7" 165lb
Schmaltz 6' 175lb
Kahun 5'11 175lbs

Ah! the first purge after winning the cup. Those were great times watching and discussing the legendary Ben Smith.
- Beaver-Warrior

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDQVd2sgYSQ

Toews 6'2" 205lbs
Hossa 6'1 210lbs
Saad 6'1 205lbs
Sharp 6'1 200lbs
Handzus 6'5" 215lbs
Bryan Bickell 6'4" 225lbs
Vermette 6'1" 200lbs


Sikura 5'11 158lbs
Debrincat 5'7" 165lb
Schmaltz 6' 175lb
Kahun 5'11 175lbs
- EnzoD

Size and sandpaper are 2 different things. Antoine Roussel is sandpaper. Not sure I want him in my top 6.

Hossa was the strongest on the list, but no one ever challenged him.

Toews 6'2" 205lbs
Hossa 6'1 210lbs
Saad 6'1 205lbs
Sharp 6'1 200lbs
Handzus 6'5" 215lbs
Bryan Bickell 6'4" 225lbs
Vermette 6'1" 200lbs


Sikura 5'11 158lbs
Debrincat 5'7" 165lb
Schmaltz 6' 175lb
Kahun 5'11 175lbs
- EnzoD

Trending!!!

I agree 100%! And to top it off Kane goes out and loses weight. The Hawks don't need anymore skill and speed, they need redass. Skill for show, redass for dough.
- paulr

This whole concept of the Hawks needing more "redass" is just pure rhetoric and BS.

Field the best 18 skaters and 2 goalies that you have period. Figure out who the players that give you the best chance to win are and go with it. If you are resigned to the fact that maybe your team is just not good enough at this point to compete at the highest level, let the young players who you hope will be contributors in the future play and learn (ala, Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, etc. in the lean years leading up to the "dynasty").

This "we need some redass" narrative is just getting old at this point. Give me the skilled player with the ability to pot 10-15 goals over the banger who maybe gets you 5 in his best year.

Well we know 4 of the 6 in both 2013 and 2015 were Toews, Kane, Hossa and Saad. Handzus was the 2C in 2013 and Brad Richard in 2015. The 6th guy was a combination of Sharp, Bickel and Vermette and out of that bunch only Bickel had "sandpaper" and even he wouldn't be considered a real sandpaper guy.
- EbonyRaptor

Vermette was never top 6 on the Hawks - he was 9th in TOI at 5v5 but dead last overall during the playoffs. He did not play with top 6 forwards, either, unless you count Sharp (who was up there in TOI). Q didn't much care for Vermette, let's be honest - didn't even play him on the PK.

Versteeg was across from Kane to start the playoffs but didn't play the full set nor get a huge amount of TOI.

TOI 2013: Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Saad, Saad, Handzus.
TOI 2015: Kane, Toews, Saad, Hossa, Richards, Sharp.

Bickell slots up top 6 if you look at even strength time only. Shaw sometimes slotted up but not enough to break top 6 TOI - he was 7/8th the cup runs.

Toews 6'2" 205lbs
Hossa 6'1 210lbs
Saad 6'1 205lbs
Sharp 6'1 200lbs
Handzus 6'5" 215lbs
Bryan Bickell 6'4" 225lbs
Vermette 6'1" 200lbs


Sikura 5'11 158lbs
Debrincat 5'7" 165lb
Schmaltz 6' 175lb
Kahun 5'11 175lbs
- EnzoD

Sikura was 174 his last year at school - there's no way he lost that much weight.

Edit: If you're going by the NHL.com numbers, those were his draft numbers and they don't always update until a player is officially on a roster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDQVd2sgYSQ



- mrpaulish

One of my favorite playoff goals. I always liked Smith, formed a good pk tandem with Kruger. I never wanted to see him leave, especially to the sharks.

One of my favorite playoff goals. I always liked Smith, formed a good pk tandem with Kruger. I never wanted to see him leave, especially to the sharks.
- I Am The Breadman

Agreed. I hope that he is not experiencing any ill effects from all of his concussions.

Crawdaddy not ready for season per Q

https://www.thescore.com/...e-ready-for-season-opener

This whole concept of the Hawks needing more "redass" is just pure rhetoric and BS.

Field the best 18 skaters and 2 goalies that you have period. Figure out who the players that give you the best chance to win are and go with it. If you are resigned to the fact that maybe your team is just not good enough at this point to compete at the highest level, let the young players who you hope will be contributors in the future play and learn (ala, Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, etc. in the lean years leading up to the "dynasty").

This "we need some redass" narrative is just getting old at this point. Give me the skilled player with the ability to pot 10-15 goals over the banger who maybe gets you 5 in his best year.
- TheTrob

Agreed on all statements!! Yes, I would like to see us be more physical, but the way the Hawks built their teams in this era was based on finesse and puck possession. We have had a handful of players play a physical game on each Cup team, but that did not deter the Hawks from moving away from what they were, a loaded skilled team that had terrific puck possession numbers.

Agreed on all statements!! Yes, I would like to see us be more physical, but the way the Hawks built their teams in this era was based on finesse and puck possession. We have had a handful of players play a physical game on each Cup team, but that did not deter the Hawks from moving away from what they were, a loaded skilled team that had terrific puck possession numbers.
- ChicagoHope

That also fits with Q's mentality: doesn't care about hit totals because if you're hitting people, then you don't have the puck. I'd much rather the Hawks be a top puck possessing team so if they can regain that mojo, then they'd be in a good position to compete.

Saad played well in Columbus. I did not hear anything about why he was moved to the third line. My best guess is Coach Q was just mixing guys around to have a look. I don't think he was put there for performance reasons. I like having him on the third line if they can put the right mix of players there. Having 3 scoring lines is harder to match up against.
- Hawks_For_Life

That's what I prefer and hope for, too. The days of 2 scoring lines, a checking 3rd line, and a no-skill but physical 4th line are in the past. Roll 4 lines that can skate, play solid defense, and transition well with 3 of them able to contribute offensively. The 4th line needs to be solid in the D zone, win draws, agitate, and score timely goals.

That's what I prefer and hope for, too. The days of 2 scoring lines, a checking 3rd line, and a no-skill but physical 4th line are in the past. Roll 4 lines that can skate, play solid defense, and transition well with 3 of them able to contribute offensively. The 4th line needs to be solid in the D zone, win draws, agitate, and score timely goals.
- AEL_Fox

A huge part of puck possession is having the strength to fend off defenders along the boards and below the goal line in the O-zone. Hossa, Toews, Saad, and Sharp, Bickell, Vermette, Handzus, Frolik, Bolland, Ladd, Bfyuglien are not "goons" or guys who throw their body a ton, but they were both skilled AND strong on the puck. Sikura, Cat, Schmaltz, and Kahun have skill, but do not have the strength necessary to have the dominant o-zone cycle game that made the Hawks so good.

Hawks need more guys with the skill and size combo. This isn't the Euro league ice surface or playing style..which Stan Bowman seems to forget.

Crawdaddy not ready for season per Q

https://www.thescore.com/...e-ready-for-season-opener
- mrpaulish

This is newsworthy?

That also fits with Q's mentality: doesn't care about hit totals because if you're hitting people, then you don't have the puck. I'd much rather the Hawks be a top puck possessing team so if they can regain that mojo, then they'd be in a good position to compete.
- AEL_Fox

You are right. Hit totals really mean nothing really. What we want to see is that the Hawks are winning puck battles and gaining possession of 50-50 pucks. Doesn't matter how they win the puck, as long as they manage to get it and hold onto it. Some of that comes from the willingness to engage and pay the price at times. They will need some players willing to take the hits and push back in the lineup.

I think Ward will play better than most people think. The problem with Forsberg is that he fails at exactly the wrong moment time after time. By the time the first 20 games goes by 19 should be making folks feel better about him. Hard to believe there was any gm rated lower than ours.
- Savoy

How about the genius in Lake Forest, Ryan Pace?!

Yeah, he isn't really a perimeter player in my books either. While he isn't big, he did battle, I think he was also a threat to score from anywhere, which is why he was the team goal scoring leader.

For reference this is where he took shots from last year, which was basically all over the ice. 5v5.



Schmaltz


Saad


Kane


Toews

- breadbag

I get it its the Rorschach test
I see a scorpion, Mickey Mouse, Owl, the big dipper, and a Question mark

This whole concept of the Hawks needing more "redass" is just pure rhetoric and BS.

Field the best 18 skaters and 2 goalies that you have period. Figure out who the players that give you the best chance to win are and go with it. If you are resigned to the fact that maybe your team is just not good enough at this point to compete at the highest level, let the young players who you hope will be contributors in the future play and learn (ala, Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, etc. in the lean years leading up to the "dynasty").

This "we need some redass" narrative is just getting old at this point. Give me the skilled player with the ability to pot 10-15 goals over the banger who maybe gets you 5 in his best year.
- TheTrob

Try reading Paul's post with your red font filter glasses on.