Except that in a sports organization you want to be fostering a winning attitude...tanking does not do this...hence why no organization truly embraces tanking...every team is trying to win
- ToewsdNKanefusd

Hard salary cap has made that approach largely obsolete, so to be a “winning organization” teams and fans have to accept peaks and valleys.

I'm just going to look at this from a logic stand point, leave out personal feelings, biases, and ntc's. How many good years does Toews have left? I'll be nice, 4. I know he's declining and I could be off. Keith, 2 maybe. Also on the decline. He's our best because we have no other defender to match him. Matthews, he falls under the helluva lotta good years left because he's young.
- I Am The Breadman

I will respectfully disagree here. I believe Keith has several good years left. IF, he plays in the right system and is not expected to carry the load. With a team like Toronto, it would be an igniter for him since he would be playing Stanley Cup hockey for years to come.......... on the other hand....... Toews ??? I don't agree here either.... unless he shows immediately that he's motivated to compete. IMO, he's not and has accomplished everything he needs to. Now it's about taking care of his family, remember ?

I will respectfully disagree here. I believe Keith has several good years left. IF, he plays in the right system and is not expected to carry the load. With a team like Toronto, it would be an igniter for him since he would be playing Stanley Cup hockey for years to come.......... on the other hand....... Toews ??? I don't agree here either.... unless he shows immediately that he's motivated to compete. IMO, he's not and has accomplished everything he needs to. Now it's about taking care of his family, remember ?
- Hawkytalk

You have some grey area if's, but that is fine. I left those out for an objectified and unbiased analysis, but I respect where you are coming from.

I have no clue on what you mean "Taking care of the family."

What are the Hawks going to do with the extra cap space?
- TJYTJY

Save it for the possibility of Panarin.......... it's time to give Kane his linemate back if they expect him to produce at a high rate for the next several years.

This team will have trouble scoring goals this year, AND... keeping the puck out of the net as well. Both mean a troubled year and if the organization wants more than 7000 fans at the UC next year, they will have to find a way to get Panarin ( or somebody of that ilk) back here. There a many ways to get this done as has been documented on this site repeatedly. It's up to Management to figure it out, not just Stan Bowman.

Hard salary cap has made that approach largely obsolete, so to be a “winning organization” teams and fans have to accept peaks and valleys.
- Return of the Roar

It is one thing to accept the peaks and valleys, and totally another thing to actually tank. Teams do not purposely tank, no matter what you may think.

I will respectfully disagree here. I believe Keith has several good years left. IF, he plays in the right system and is not expected to carry the load. With a team like Toronto, it would be an igniter for him since he would be playing Stanley Cup hockey for years to come.......... on the other hand....... Toews ??? I don't agree here either.... unless he shows immediately that he's motivated to compete. IMO, he's not and has accomplished everything he needs to. Now it's about taking care of his family, remember ?
- Hawkytalk

I think people are reading way too much into Toews comment regarding taking care of his family. As someone else stated, I'm sure he is somewhat handcuffed in his responses due to the NHLPA's agenda.

Save it for the possibility of Panarin.......... it's time to give Kane his linemate back if they expect him to produce at a high rate for the next several years.

This team will have trouble scoring goals this year, AND... keeping the puck out of the net as well. Both mean a troubled year and if the organization wants more than 7000 fans at the UC next year, they will have to find a way to get Panarin ( or somebody of that ilk) back here. There a many ways to get this done as has been documented on this site repeatedly. It's up to Management to figure it out, not just Stan Bowman.
- Hawkytalk

But I don't want to.

Save it for the possibility of Panarin.......... it's time to give Kane his linemate back if they expect him to produce at a high rate for the next several years.

This team will have trouble scoring goals this year, AND... keeping the puck out of the net as well. Both mean a troubled year and if the organization wants more than 7000 fans at the UC next year, they will have to find a way to get Panarin ( or somebody of that ilk) back here. There a many ways to get this done as has been documented on this site repeatedly. It's up to Management to figure it out, not just Stan Bowman.
- Hawkytalk

If Panarin takes a team friendly deal, I am all for it. If he really wants to be here, he will do that for the team.
A TSN article a couple of days ago, gave me a lot more respect for McDavid. Apparently there was more money agreed to on the table for him but he did not feel comfortable taking it. He sent his agent back to give some money back to the team. The article also states that no team yet with a double digited player salary has won the cup in this salary cap era. Players who bleed their teams for every dollar they can get are more concerned about themselves than they are for their team.

If Panarin takes a team friendly deal, I am all for it. If he really wants to be here, he will do that for the team.
A TSN article a couple of days ago, gave me a lot more respect for McDavid. Apparently there was more money agreed to on the table for him but he did not feel comfortable taking it. He sent his agent back to give some money back to the team. The article also states that no team yet with a double digited player salary has won the cup in this salary cap era. Players who bleed their teams for every dollar they can get are more concerned about themselves than they are for their team.
- 67hawks

12.5 mil is far from a vulgar uncomfortable amount of money? McDavid is better than me in that field. It would have been nice if he told his agent, "Let me talk to the gm and management, it would send a nice message if I declined their offer and agreed on a new and lower amount in person."

I thought Kane and Toews won the 15 cup with their 10.5 mil contracts?

If Panarin takes a team friendly deal, I am all for it. If he really wants to be here, he will do that for the team.
A TSN article a couple of days ago, gave me a lot more respect for McDavid. Apparently there was more money agreed to on the table for him but he did not feel comfortable taking it. He sent his agent back to give some money back to the team. The article also states that no team yet with a double digited player salary has won the cup in this salary cap era. Players who bleed their teams for every dollar they can get are more concerned about themselves than they are for their team.
- 67hawks

Agreed.....(9M would be a team friendly deal, IF, he has a similar type season to last year.... meaning top scorer on CBJ.)

If you truly believe they are done, then just do what every other bandwagon jumping person in Chicago does - move on.

Your negative comments are tired and old.

We all get it - everything in your world is gloom and doom - no one here cares to hear about it.
- dahawks8819

Lol man you’re thin skinned.

I’ve told you before I’m not a bandwagoner, and my thoughts on the team only reflect their quality. When they were great I was all in on going hard for the Cup, now that I recognize it’s time to rebuild my thoughts have changed and all of a sudden posters like yourself get all pissy and butthurt. Smh

This Hawk team is not going to make a run.

1. They are NOT largely comprised of cup winning players. They are largely comprised of middling bottom six players and unknown quantities in rookies which are at least two years out from showing signs of NHL value.

2. Except for Kane, the small group of remaining cup players are no longer elite level talent.

3. This combination deters good free agent talent from considering coming here.

4. The recent draft may have some gems in the rough, but honestly....no diamonds.

5. Every team in their division got better - again - and the talent gap is widening.

#embracethetank
- Return of the Roar

We hear point #5 every single off-season lately. Apparently every year, every other team in our division gets better.

If Panarin takes a team friendly deal, I am all for it. If he really wants to be here, he will do that for the team.
A TSN article a couple of days ago, gave me a lot more respect for McDavid. Apparently there was more money agreed to on the table for him but he did not feel comfortable taking it. He sent his agent back to give some money back to the team. The article also states that no team yet with a double digited player salary has won the cup in this salary cap era. Players who bleed their teams for every dollar they can get are more concerned about themselves than they are for their team.
- 67hawks

What would be an acceptable number? I think a team friendly deal would be $8 million and I don't think he'll take that. If Panarin did take that Stan would still have to do some juggling to keep Schmaltz and DeBrincat.

Given the Hawks situation I won't see them making any big trades or UFA signings in the next 2-3 seasons. They'll let the likes of Schmaltz, DeBrincat, Sikura, Jokiharju and Boqvist (among others) develop into the next group to be at the forefront of the team.

The Hawks are more than one player away from being top contenders again. There's not point in losing solid young players for an older player that likely won't significantly change the outcome for the team. Those players would include Duchene, Stone, Panarin, Skinner, Eberle just to name a few.

It might be the more painful route in the short term, but I say let's see what the young kids can do.

Lol man you’re thin skinned.

I’ve told you before I’m not a bandwagoner, and my thoughts on the team only reflect their quality. When they were great I was all in on going hard for the Cup, now that I recognize it’s time to rebuild my thoughts have changed and all of a sudden posters like yourself get all pissy and butthurt. Smh
- SimpleJack

You just defined bandwagon, with the team for the highs and success, away from the team on lows and failure/rebuild.

It is one thing to accept the peaks and valleys, and totally another thing to actually tank. Teams do not purposely tank, no matter what you may think.
- ToewsdNKanefusd

You must not watch the NBA lol

If Panarin takes a team friendly deal, I am all for it. If he really wants to be here, he will do that for the team.
A TSN article a couple of days ago, gave me a lot more respect for McDavid. Apparently there was more money agreed to on the table for him but he did not feel comfortable taking it. He sent his agent back to give some money back to the team. The article also states that no team yet with a double digited player salary has won the cup in this salary cap era. Players who bleed their teams for every dollar they can get are more concerned about themselves than they are for their team.
- 67hawks

He gave back, what, $500K a year? Not a huge amount and actually in line with what we are told Kane and Toews did. Yet, they are beat up mercilessly for being greedy bastards who don't care about the team.

Hard salary cap has made that approach largely obsolete, so to be a “winning organization” teams and fans have to accept peaks and valleys.
- Return of the Roar

Peaks and valley are one thing, but tanking is diving down to the bottom of the valley hoping you gain enough speed to come up the other side. It might work and it might not. There are a lot of good teams right now that didn't explicitly tank and meh ones who have and didn't come out better for it.

You just defined bandwagon, with the team for the highs and success, away from the team on lows and failure/rebuild.
- I Am The Breadman

Where in my post did I say “with the team” or “away from the team”??

You changed my statement.

Wanting the team you root for to rebuild doesn’t make you a bandwagon fan....

When they were great I was all in on going hard for the Cup, now that I recognize it’s time to rebuild my thoughts have changed.

Sounds and reads like with and away.

He gave back, what, $500K a year? Not a huge amount and actually in line with what we are told Kane and Toews did. Yet, they are beat up mercilessly for being greedy bastards who don't care about the team.
- pdx2ord

McDavid was also in a position where he could have driven a hard bargain to 15M and could have come close to getting that if that was his initial intention.
Neither Toews nor Kane should be in the same ballpark in salary as him.

What would be an acceptable number? I think a team friendly deal would be $8 million and I don't think he'll take that. If Panarin did take that Stan would still have to do some juggling to keep Schmaltz and DeBrincat.

Given the Hawks situation I won't see them making any big trades or UFA signings in the next 2-3 seasons. They'll let the likes of Schmaltz, DeBrincat, Sikura, Jokiharju and Boqvist (among others) develop into the next group to be at the forefront of the team.

The Hawks are more than one player away from being top contenders again. There's not point in losing solid young players for an older player that likely won't significantly change the outcome for the team. Those players would include Duchene, Stone, Panarin, Skinner, Eberle just to name a few.

It might be the more painful route in the short term, but I say let's see what the young kids can do.
- DarthKane

You make a valid argument. Stan has some decisions to make in the next couple of weeks. The
Defence will be solidified with that young group we have, but as far as the forwards who truly will be legitimate top 6 , I don't see that and to go forward with 5 guys on this team who eat up all most 60 percent of the salary cap all over the age of 30 and to not lose out on their value i.e trading 1 or 2 of them for picks, prospects and cap relief or the other option would be trade for panarin, Duchene or Stone and give up a pick and prospect for a guarantee of a young proven top 6 who can produce immediately would not be hurting the future but putting this team closer to competing again maybe not this year but next year or the year after were looking at 3 to 4 of those young defenseman on this team .

Right now I have no high hopes for these young forwards really fitting into a top 6 role . And drafting doesn't guarantee a stud player and drafting someone would be years out before they see the NHL,

Powers posted the roster tonight and the top two lines are going to play. A bunch of guys that didn't play in Columbus fill out the forward ranks. Boqvist and Beaudin are playing but not Keith or Seabrook. Forsberg and Lankinen in goal.

If Panarin takes a team friendly deal, I am all for it. If he really wants to be here, he will do that for the team.
A TSN article a couple of days ago, gave me a lot more respect for McDavid. Apparently there was more money agreed to on the table for him but he did not feel comfortable taking it. He sent his agent back to give some money back to the team. The article also states that no team yet with a double digited player salary has won the cup in this salary cap era. Players who bleed their teams for every dollar they can get are more concerned about themselves than they are for their team.
- 67hawks

McDavid still has the highest cap % at signing in history.

The not about double digit salary not having won the cup in the salary cup era is a stupid point btw. There was only one team with those players and it's only been been a few seasons in a 13 year span. That's pretty much statistically irrelevant - a one in 30/31 chance of winning in a less than 3rd of the years available? Come on. If it was like 7-8 teams had such players and the sample size for years they existed was longer and there still wasn't a winner, sure, okay. But the point is like when kids says "you're my favorite dad" when they only have the one dad. It's factually true but the sample size is so small it doesn't carry any weight of impact / importance. It's a throwaway statement.

You just defined bandwagon, with the team for the highs and success, away from the team on lows and failure/rebuild.
- I Am The Breadman

Define with and away.

I wont spend money to see a non-competitive product, but I will still follow and have interest in a team during rebuild times.

Frankly, taking that approach as a fan creates an incentive for the ownership to put a quality product out there.

But why would anyone, especially at these ticket prices, spend money to watch this team?

What would be an acceptable number? I think a team friendly deal would be $8 million and I don't think he'll take that. If Panarin did take that Stan would still have to do some juggling to keep Schmaltz and DeBrincat.

Given the Hawks situation I won't see them making any big trades or UFA signings in the next 2-3 seasons. They'll let the likes of Schmaltz, DeBrincat, Sikura, Jokiharju and Boqvist (among others) develop into the next group to be at the forefront of the team.

The Hawks are more than one player away from being top contenders again. There's not point in losing solid young players for an older player that likely won't significantly change the outcome for the team. Those players would include Duchene, Stone, Panarin, Skinner, Eberle just to name a few.

It might be the more painful route in the short term, but I say let's see what the young kids can do.
- DarthKane

I'm in this camp of not pursuing Panarin or someone similar in order to develop and rebuild around home grown talent.