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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Hlinka Gretzky Cup Update, Lou Nolan, Alumni
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jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 10 @ 12:45 PM ET
Look we can argue about this all day and we have multiple times and probably noone is going to convince the other person. I think it is in the flyers best interest to trade Wayne, but this is complicated by the fact that we are hopefully going to be in the thick of a playoff race and could use him. Obviously losing him for nothing would be bad, and if simmer is willing to take a shorter term for slightly more AAV, I would be okay with it. But I think the flyers probably should have traded him this off-season, but they didn't so they will probably stick with him toll at least the end of the season barring catastrophe
- bulet13


I'm not saying that the Flyers shouldn't trade Wayne Simmonds under any circumstances. I am saying that, if his production turns around, and if he and the Flyers can reach an agreement that works for both sides, I think they should keep him. But if he wants a long-term, high-dollar deal, then the Flyers should explore trading him.

I know everyone thinks that losing a player via UFA is worthy of castrating the GM, but at the same time, trading Wayne Simmonds, even in a down year, is likely making your team worse in the short-term. If your players are fighting hard and the team is improving, you owe it to those players to give them the best chance to win, which in all likelihood means keeping Wayne Simmonds.
bulet13
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Faceoffs, Plus/Minus, and PIMs...the Holy Trinity, TX
Joined: 03.10.2013

Aug 10 @ 12:49 PM ET
I'm not saying that the Flyers shouldn't trade Wayne Simmonds under any circumstances. I am saying that, if his production turns around, and if he and the Flyers can reach an agreement that works for both sides, I think they should keep him. But if he wants a long-term, high-dollar deal, then the Flyers should explore trading him.

I know everyone thinks that losing a player via UFA is worthy of castrating the GM, but at the same time, trading Wayne Simmonds, even in a down year, is likely making your team worse in the short-term. If your players are fighting hard and the team is improving, you owe it to those players to give them the best chance to win, which in all likelihood means keeping Wayne Simmonds.

- jmatchett383


I don't disagree with anything you said. I think we were arguing around each other lol
TheGreat28
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Chadds Ford, PA
Joined: 06.20.2010

Aug 10 @ 12:54 PM ET
With my name barely legible
- bmeltzer


And Big Al's photo
TheGreat28
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Chadds Ford, PA
Joined: 06.20.2010

Aug 10 @ 12:56 PM ET
Really? LOL Simmonds ranked in the top 40 in the NHL among RW's for EV point production.
- MJL


Top 40? Shouldn't a $7 mil a year player rank a little higher than top 40?
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 10 @ 12:57 PM ET
Top 40? Shouldn't a $7 mil a year player rank a little higher than top 40?
- TheGreat28


Yes. Good thing that Simmonds wasn't making $7M.
cousjoe
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: North Wales, PA
Joined: 10.07.2015

Aug 10 @ 12:59 PM ET
I believe Lou Nolan should have his name in the rafters. This City has been blessed with the greatest in house/broadcasters. From Gene Hart, Harry Kalas, Richie Ashburne, Merrel Reese ect. If you have not read Lou's book "If These Walls Could Talk" please do so as a Flyers fan. Great book.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 10 @ 1:00 PM ET
After last night, I think we should all agree that the Eagles need to blow it all up and start over.
TheGreat28
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Chadds Ford, PA
Joined: 06.20.2010

Aug 10 @ 1:04 PM ET
Yes. Good thing that Simmonds wasn't making $7M.
- jmatchett383


No, but he will be making something much closer to that in his next contract. As much as we all love Simmonds, the cold realities of this business are that the Flyers need to pay him for projected future production, not reward him for past production.

Personally, I would lean towards trading him, assuming an offer comparable to Schenn's came along, because:

1) I feel like he'll have a rebound year but slowly decline over next 3-5
2) we have multiple young prospects that he'll be blocking in next 2-3 years
3) he still has value and some GM of a team that is a legit contender will bite
4) we are not yet a legit contender and need to be thinking 2-3 years out
5) Cap space is still critical
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Aug 10 @ 1:09 PM ET
Someone posted an article on like page 1 that has his per60 stats
- bulet13


I asked you about the differences in his ice time.
MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Aug 10 @ 1:11 PM ET
I'm not saying that the Flyers shouldn't trade Wayne Simmonds under any circumstances. I am saying that, if his production turns around, and if he and the Flyers can reach an agreement that works for both sides, I think they should keep him. But if he wants a long-term, high-dollar deal, then the Flyers should explore trading him.

I know everyone thinks that losing a player via UFA is worthy of castrating the GM, but at the same time, trading Wayne Simmonds, even in a down year, is likely making your team worse in the short-term. If your players are fighting hard and the team is improving, you owe it to those players to give them the best chance to win, which in all likelihood means keeping Wayne Simmonds.

- jmatchett383


And technically you are getting that 7 million (if the projections are correct) in cap space to use somewhere else IF he does leave in UFA.

I know that isn't ideal, but in a cap world it is at least different than it used to be.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Aug 10 @ 1:12 PM ET
Top 40? Shouldn't a $7 mil a year player rank a little higher than top 40?
- TheGreat28


He's not a 7M a year player.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Aug 10 @ 1:14 PM ET
No, but he will be making something much closer to that in his next contract. As much as we all love Simmonds, the cold realities of this business are that the Flyers need to pay him for projected future production, not reward him for past production.

Personally, I would lean towards trading him, assuming an offer comparable to Schenn's came along, because:

1) I feel like he'll have a rebound year but slowly decline over next 3-5
2) we have multiple young prospects that he'll be blocking in next 2-3 years
3) he still has value and some GM of a team that is a legit contender will bite
4) we are not yet a legit contender and need to be thinking 2-3 years out
5) Cap space is still critical

- TheGreat28


See, I don't object to any of these reasons for exploring a trade. Just don't give me this nonsense that he's not a good 5 on 5 player or he scores most of his points on the PP that is spewed.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 10 @ 1:26 PM ET
Again, the term makes no sense.
- jmatchett383

It doesn't?
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 10 @ 1:33 PM ET
I posed this question on twitter and will do so here as well, first and second picks aside and not including Myers, which prospect are you most intrigued over?
- nastyflyergirl

in terms of upside - Vorobyev and Hogberg
in terms of skill and fun - Vorobyev, Lycksell and Kalynuk a bit too
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 10 @ 1:41 PM ET
It doesn't?
- YuenglingJagr


No, because (to me) the term "Replacement level player" means that he can (and should) be replaced with anybody.

Also, the term only takes scoring (granted, the most important stat) into account. I know buzz words like "leadership" and "heart" are laughed at on here, but in terms of a guy like Simmonds, they have to be factored into the equation.
bulet13
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Faceoffs, Plus/Minus, and PIMs...the Holy Trinity, TX
Joined: 03.10.2013

Aug 10 @ 1:52 PM ET
I love LaGuardia! My flights here NEVER get delayed!
bulet13
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Faceoffs, Plus/Minus, and PIMs...the Holy Trinity, TX
Joined: 03.10.2013

Aug 10 @ 1:56 PM ET
See, I don't object to any of these reasons for exploring a trade. Just don't give me this nonsense that he's not a good 5 on 5 player or he scores most of his points on the PP that is spewed.
- MJL


It's not nonesense lol. He's in the bottom quartile for wingers for ES points/60. That's not difficult to understand. There are many reasons to defend Simmer, but his even strength play OVER THE LAST 2 YEARS has not been good. Now, the same was said of G and he had a tremendous bounce back year, and I'm not saying that can't happen for Simmer. But the honest truth is he was not an efficient five on five player the past two years. And with that I am done with this.
Pixote Andolini
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: South Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 07.23.2007

Aug 10 @ 1:56 PM ET
No, because (to me) the term "Replacement level player" means that he can (and should) be replaced with anybody.

Also, the term only takes scoring (granted, the most important stat) into account. I know buzz words like "leadership" and "heart" are laughed at on here, but in terms of a guy like Simmonds, they have to be factored into the equation.

- jmatchett383

Thank you.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 10 @ 2:08 PM ET
Look that's the language fancy stats guys use. What I actually mean is in ES points/60 he ranked in the bottom quartile for wingers in the NHL, both in 16/17 and last year
- bulet13

IMO what doesn't get talked about enough in regards to whether or not he is a good ES player is his defense. He has always struggled to keep pucks out of the zone and out of the net. He does not excel at breakouts or moving the puck into the offensive zone. He has been scored on at ES more than he has scored at ES.

Since 2011 (when Simmonds got here)
He ranks 47th out of 52 forwards to play for the Flyers in goal differential. Left that there just for sticker shock, but if you say a minimum of 1500 minutes that leaves 16 guys. Simmonds is 12th at -16. For reference VDV is -28, Giroux is +46 and Schenn is -6. Simmonds is -20 at ES since Hakstol started coaching.

He is a great player and better person, but he has his limitations.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 10 @ 2:15 PM ET
No, because (to me) the term "Replacement level player" means that he can (and should) be replaced with anybody.

Also, the term only takes scoring (granted, the most important stat) into account. I know buzz words like "leadership" and "heart" are laughed at on here, but in terms of a guy like Simmonds, they have to be factored into the equation.

- jmatchett383

Teams need a guy like that to get them over the hump and raise the cup, as we saw with Justin Williams and the Capitals.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 10 @ 2:20 PM ET
Teams need a guy like that to get them over the hump and raise the cup, as we saw with Justin Williams and the Capitals.
- YuenglingJagr


Thanks for replying to my point.
bulet13
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Faceoffs, Plus/Minus, and PIMs...the Holy Trinity, TX
Joined: 03.10.2013

Aug 10 @ 2:21 PM ET
Teams need a guy like that to get them over the hump and raise the cup, as we saw with Justin Williams and the Capitals.
- YuenglingJagr


lol
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 10 @ 2:25 PM ET
lol
- bulet13


Yep. Something did/didn't happen once, and therefore, it never happens and is useless to ever attempt.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Aug 10 @ 2:25 PM ET
It's not nonesense lol. He's in the bottom quartile for wingers for ES points/60. That's not difficult to understand. There are many reasons to defend Simmer, but his even strength play OVER THE LAST 2 YEARS has not been good. Now, the same was said of G and he had a tremendous bounce back year, and I'm not saying that can't happen for Simmer. But the honest truth is he was not an efficient five on five player the past two years. And with that I am done with this.
- bulet13



It is nonsense on a level. Points per 60 is a flawed stat in the first place. The issue is that many think these stats are player stats when they're not. Simmonds produced more points at 5 on 5 in 16/17 than Claude Giroux did. The entire team struggled to score at 5 on 5 in 16/17. You're looking at these stats in a vacuum. Remember your comment about seeing the entire picture? You're not! Play Wayne Simmonds with a playmaker that he can find chemistry with such as a LH shot center and watch how he performs at 5 on 5. Improve the defense and the overall play of the team and watch how Simmonds 5 on 5 play improves. How can that be so when these great overall individual stats are just that? They're not, they're team stats. That simple.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Aug 10 @ 2:28 PM ET
IMO what doesn't get talked about enough in regards to whether or not he is a good ES player is his defense. He has always struggled to keep pucks out of the zone and out of the net. He does not excel at breakouts or moving the puck into the offensive zone. He has been scored on at ES more than he has scored at ES.

Since 2011 (when Simmonds got here)
He ranks 47th out of 52 forwards to play for the Flyers in goal differential. Left that there just for sticker shock, but if you say a minimum of 1500 minutes that leaves 16 guys. Simmonds is 12th at -16. For reference VDV is -28, Giroux is +46 and Schenn is -6. Simmonds is -20 at ES since Hakstol started coaching.

He is a great player and better person, but he has his limitations.

- YuenglingJagr



I agree, Simmonds does have some limitations. Improve the team around him and see what happens.

Show the big picture and see what the actual difference is. Who has Simmonds predominantly played with at 5 on 5 during that period?
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