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Forums :: Blog World :: Bob Duff: Mantha signs two-year deal
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Bob Duff
Location: Windsor, ON
Joined: 11.10.2014

Jul 11 @ 10:36 PM ET
Bob Duff: Mantha signs two-year deal The Detroit Red Wings locked up Anthony Mantha, their 2017-18 goal-scoring leader with 24, for the next two seasons.
YzermanTheMan
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Reveen is JB’s salad tosser
Joined: 08.21.2013

Jul 11 @ 10:53 PM ET
Please delete your account, Duff. Feds for blogger.
dcz28
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 08.20.2006

Jul 11 @ 11:22 PM ET
Holland names 5 or 6 young player saying they need to step up for the Wings to be decent but says nothing about the 10+ players that are over 30 years old...you know all those guys he overpaid.


I vote for Sven for blogger.
Glak18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Tater tots go with everything, PA
Joined: 06.26.2007

Jul 12 @ 6:46 AM ET
I looked over the Detroit forward prospects/young guns and they could have a nice top 9 in the future if they pan out decently. Now defense and goaltenders on the other hand...

I wonder if Larkin becomes an offer sheet candidate since Franzen can't be placed on LTIR until beginning of season. Larkin should easily command at least 5-6M per and would fit under the 10% overage cushion before the season, but Detroit needs to drop at least 4M+ soon.
datswho
Detroit Red Wings
Location: MI
Joined: 05.25.2013

Jul 12 @ 8:21 AM ET
Can’t see Larkin signing anywhere else. Home town kid and probable captain
MR.Hunter
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 06.22.2016

Jul 12 @ 8:50 AM ET
Larkin wouldn't sign anywhere else. . ..a couple of dmen and Detroit is looking good ..
Sven22
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Joined: 12.24.2007

Jul 12 @ 8:52 AM ET
I looked over the Detroit forward prospects/young guns and they could have a nice top 9 in the future if they pan out decently. Now defense and goaltenders on the other hand...

I wonder if Larkin becomes an offer sheet candidate since Franzen can't be placed on LTIR until beginning of season. Larkin should easily command at least 5-6M per and would fit under the 10% overage cushion before the season, but Detroit needs to drop at least 4M+ soon.

- Glak18


Assuming:

- Hronek, Zadina, and Rasmussen make roster
- Witkowski and Frk waived / sent to GR
- Larkin signs for $6 million AAV
- Franzen placed on opening-day LTIR

That would give Detroit a cap-compliant 22-man roster by just about the slimmest possible margin. It's so tight that just swapping Hronek for Sulak or Cholowski would put them over. (Alternatively, they could swap Jensen for Sulak, or Hronek/Jensen for Hickets/Cholowski, but the point is it's really really tight.)

Now, having said that, a lot can still happen before the first day of the season to dramatically shift the cap situation, so this analysis will probably be moot. Someone could be traded out (likely Nyquist or AA, but conceivably anyone), or another player could be injured and placed on LTIR (which would easily free up the room to, say, promote another defender AND keep Frk in Detroit so they have a full 23-man active roster).

But as long as Larkin signs for $6 million or less (not a guarantee, but not unreasonable) they probably don't have to move out contracts, strictly speaking.

Although it would still be to their clear advantage to do so, especially if they could squeak the total team cap charge just under $79.5 million even with Franzen included. Because of how LTIR works, that would then given them close to $4 million of flexibility to add salary via promotion / trade / waivers, rather than effectively $0.
DRW1991
Detroit Red Wings
Joined: 07.05.2016

Jul 12 @ 9:16 AM ET
Assuming:

- Hronek, Zadina, and Rasmussen make roster
- Witkowski and Frk waived / sent to GR
- Larkin signs for $6 million AAV
- Franzen placed on opening-day LTIR

That would give Detroit a cap-compliant 22-man roster by just about the slimmest possible margin. It's so tight that just swapping Hronek for Sulak or Cholowski would put them over. (Alternatively, they could swap Jensen for Sulak, or Hronek/Jensen for Hickets/Cholowski, but the point is it's really really tight.)

Now, having said that, a lot can still happen before the first day of the season to dramatically shift the cap situation, so this analysis will probably be moot. Someone could be traded out (likely Nyquist or AA, but conceivably anyone), or another player could be injured and placed on LTIR (which would easily free up the room to, say, promote another defender AND keep Frk in Detroit so they have a full 23-man active roster).

But as long as Larkin signs for $6 million or less (not a guarantee, but not unreasonable) they probably don't have to move out contracts, strictly speaking.

Although it would still be to their clear advantage to do so, especially if they could squeak the total team cap charge just under $79.5 million even with Franzen included. Because of how LTIR works, that would then given them close to $4 million of flexibility to add salary via promotion / trade / waivers, rather than effectively $0.

- Sven22

Very well put. I actually could see Larkin getting a 3 year deal in the $5-6 range. That would keep him an RFA at the end of the contract, which seems to be something Holland is a fan of doing. That gives more control over AA, Mantha, and Larkin.

That could also lead to a bigger payday for Larkin if he is on a line with a pure scorer like Zadina or Mantha, and he keeps improving.
Sven22
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Joined: 12.24.2007

Jul 12 @ 11:14 AM ET
I looked over the Detroit forward prospects/young guns and they could have a nice top 9 in the future if they pan out decently. Now defense and goaltenders on the other hand...

I wonder if Larkin becomes an offer sheet candidate since Franzen can't be placed on LTIR until beginning of season. Larkin should easily command at least 5-6M per and would fit under the 10% overage cushion before the season, but Detroit needs to drop at least 4M+ soon.

- Glak18


Just a quick clarifying addendum after re-reading your post:

While it's true that Franzen cannot be placed on LTIR until the first day of the season, it is not true that the Wings have to be under the nominal cap ($79.5 million) before that date. As long as the amount that they're over is within Franzen's $3.95 million cap hit, they can put him on LTIR on day 1 and count whatever amount that they're over as cap relief, without penalty.

However, because of the somewhat complicated way that LTIR relief is calculated, this approach has a big downside. Under normal circumstances, when you place a guy on LTIR you are allowed to "replace" him on the roster with another player making the same amount or less, even if that would otherwise put your team over the cap.

However, if you start out the season already over the cap and need "day one LTIR" just to get compliant, the league considers your injured player "already replaced" by the remaining players on the roster. So while you get relief for whatever amount you're already over, you are judged to have exactly $0 in cap space with no wiggle room to add any salary whatsoever above your current level. At that point even promoting and reassigning minor leaguers becomes impossible if the player(s) coming up make more than the player(s) going down.

Maybe you already know all this (EDIT - since you're a Flyers fan you are probably already very familiar with the process ...) but I thought it might be helpful for readers who might be interested.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Even Holland couldn't mess that up, FL
Joined: 02.01.2012

Jul 12 @ 4:41 PM ET
Assuming:

- Hronek, Zadina, and Rasmussen make roster
- Witkowski and Frk waived / sent to GR
- Larkin signs for $6 million AAV
- Franzen placed on opening-day LTIR

That would give Detroit a cap-compliant 22-man roster by just about the slimmest possible margin. It's so tight that just swapping Hronek for Sulak or Cholowski would put them over. (Alternatively, they could swap Jensen for Sulak, or Hronek/Jensen for Hickets/Cholowski, but the point is it's really really tight.)

Now, having said that, a lot can still happen before the first day of the season to dramatically shift the cap situation, so this analysis will probably be moot. Someone could be traded out (likely Nyquist or AA, but conceivably anyone), or another player could be injured and placed on LTIR (which would easily free up the room to, say, promote another defender AND keep Frk in Detroit so they have a full 23-man active roster).

But as long as Larkin signs for $6 million or less (not a guarantee, but not unreasonable) they probably don't have to move out contracts, strictly speaking.

Although it would still be to their clear advantage to do so, especially if they could squeak the total team cap charge just under $79.5 million even with Franzen included. Because of how LTIR works, that would then given them close to $4 million of flexibility to add salary via promotion / trade / waivers, rather than effectively $0.

- Sven22

Good blog Sven
agame99
Vegas Golden Knights
Joined: 06.29.2018

Jul 13 @ 1:07 PM ET
I looked over the Detroit forward prospects/young guns and they could have a nice top 9 in the future if they pan out decently. Now defense and goaltenders on the other hand...

I wonder if Larkin becomes an offer sheet candidate since Franzen can't be placed on LTIR until beginning of season. Larkin should easily command at least 5-6M per and would fit under the 10% overage cushion before the season, but Detroit needs to drop at least 4M+ soon.

- Glak18


Their would be more wiggle room if they didn’t sign Vanek, just saying. And please no one give me the veteran leadership excuse, they had plenty of that. Even if they are short at wing position, this should be the time to be trying young players at wing or playing the ones you have.

On another note, as a wings fan I am concerned about Mantha. All I ever hear on him as a criticism is his lack of compete level and it’s been there since he was drafted. I hope this guy pans out. He has so many great aspects to his game.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Even Holland couldn't mess that up, FL
Joined: 02.01.2012

Jul 13 @ 4:02 PM ET
Their would be more wiggle room if they didn’t sign Vanek, just saying. And please no one give me the veteran leadership excuse, they had plenty of that. Even if they are short at wing position, this should be the time to be trying young players at wing or playing the ones you have.

On another note, as a wings fan I am concerned about Mantha. All I ever hear on him as a criticism is his lack of compete level and it’s been there since he was drafted. I hope this guy pans out. He has so many great aspects to his game.

- agame99

You certainly aren't much of a wings fan if you are concerned about the teams leading goal scorer from last season.
Gertner
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 08.04.2017

Jul 14 @ 12:02 PM ET
Duff is horrendous
Vladdie_Kon1
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Joined: 04.21.2007

Jul 14 @ 4:15 PM ET
Holland names 5 or 6 young player saying they need to step up for the Wings to be decent but says nothing about the 10+ players that are over 30 years old...you know all those guys he overpaid.


I vote for Sven for blogger.

- dcz28


Ditto that...

Hey Ek... you listening ?
agame99
Vegas Golden Knights
Joined: 06.29.2018

Jul 14 @ 11:00 PM ET
You certainly aren't much of a wings fan if you are concerned about the teams leading goal scorer from last season.
- Feds91Stammer



I think that’s makes me a better fan actually if I actually a little concerned. If the team was really sold on this guy, he would have given him a long term deal instead of a bridge that gives Holland a chance to move on from him. And I’m sorry, he lead a lousy team with a whopping 24 goals.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Even Holland couldn't mess that up, FL
Joined: 02.01.2012

Jul 14 @ 11:48 PM ET
I think that’s makes me a better fan actually if I actually a little concerned. If the team was really sold on this guy, he would have given him a long term deal instead of a bridge that gives Holland a chance to move on from him. And I’m sorry, he lead a lousy team with a whopping 24 goals.
- agame99

Wow you are (frank)ing stupid.

He led his team in goals.

He led his team in goals per 60.

He led his team in game score per 60.

He led his team in P1 per 60.

Only Bertuzzi (48 game sample) had a higher WAR per 60.

Mantha was arguably the teams best forward last year and yes that includes Larkin.

Stop being a (frank)ing idiot.
agame99
Vegas Golden Knights
Joined: 06.29.2018

Jul 15 @ 9:54 AM ET
Wow you are (frank)ing stupid.

He led his team in goals.

He led his team in goals per 60.

He led his team in game score per 60.

He led his team in P1 per 60.

Only Bertuzzi (48 game sample) had a higher WAR per 60.

Mantha was arguably the teams best forward last year and yes that includes Larkin.

Stop being a (frank)ing idiot.

- Feds91Stammer


Wow look, another person addicted to outrage who can research the internet. If you go back to my actual original comment, I never said I didn’t like Mantha. He has incredible talent and physical attributes. I was concerned with his effort being consistently questioned and called out by the coaching staff. Talented Players in the NHL with attributed like his can put up decent numbers in the regular season if you keep playing them. Yes, He lead a lousy team in all those categories. That’s promising as his effort has reportedly been improving, but over the long term, athletes who lack effort early on can be a concern for the organization in any sport. Like I said before, I hope he pans out because I like his game. I guess I should just find some analytics on the internet though and just call others stupid because that’s what passes for conversation these days.
dcz28
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 08.20.2006

Jul 15 @ 2:32 PM ET
Wow look, another person addicted to outrage who can research the internet. If you go back to my actual original comment, I never said I didn’t like Mantha. He has incredible talent and physical attributes. I was concerned with his effort being consistently questioned and called out by the coaching staff. Talented Players in the NHL with attributed like his can put up decent numbers in the regular season if you keep playing them. Yes, He lead a lousy team in all those categories. That’s promising as his effort has reportedly been improving, but over the long term, athletes who lack effort early on can be a concern for the organization in any sport. Like I said before, I hope he pans out because I like his game. I guess I should just find some analytics on the internet though and just call others stupid because that’s what passes for conversation these days.
- agame99



Well there is your mistake. This dumb ass coaching staff only questioned the play of young players while giving vets a free pass for everything even when those young players were among the teams best players. The fact they never even once said anything about how bad Ericsson was or benched him should make this coaching staff lose any credibility in the eyes of fans.

The only thing they do is complain about Mantha and AA while everyone else can play like crap and cost the team goals and games while not a peep in the media from the coaching staff. Whatever young player or rookie is in the lineup for this season could likely get the same treatment from this coaching staff because they never will hold the vets accountable for anything publicly. Only the young players can be called out.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Even Holland couldn't mess that up, FL
Joined: 02.01.2012

Jul 16 @ 9:16 AM ET
Wow look, another person addicted to outrage who can research the internet. If you go back to my actual original comment, I never said I didn’t like Mantha. He has incredible talent and physical attributes. I was concerned with his effort being consistently questioned and called out by the coaching staff. Talented Players in the NHL with attributed like his can put up decent numbers in the regular season if you keep playing them. Yes, He lead a lousy team in all those categories. That’s promising as his effort has reportedly been improving, but over the long term, athletes who lack effort early on can be a concern for the organization in any sport. Like I said before, I hope he pans out because I like his game. I guess I should just find some analytics on the internet though and just call others stupid because that’s what passes for conversation these days.
- agame99



I hope he pans out too

Sven22
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Joined: 12.24.2007

Jul 16 @ 1:34 PM ET
Mantha is already really good and likely still getting better. His traditional boxcar stats (goals, assists) very likely underestimate how well he played last year.

I'm not worried about his effort level. I think harping on the young players is just par for the course for the Red Wings coaching staff, and frankly pretty common league-wide. Honestly I think mostly the young players get that kind of feedback because they actually can still learn and improve, whereas with the veterans you pretty much get what you get.

I mean, calling out Ericsson publicly (for example) isn't going to change the fact that he sucks; he knows what to do, he just can't do it. With a guy like Mantha you're going to use every tool at your disposal to push him to the absolute max of his potential, even if he's already a great player with a pretty good head on his shoulders.

I think there were actually a real issue with his attitude or effort we'd hear a lot more about it than we do.
bikeguy99
New Jersey Devils
Joined: 09.05.2017

Jul 16 @ 2:47 PM ET
Bob Duff: Mantha signs two-year deal
The Detroit Red Wings locked up Anthony Mantha, their 2017-18 goal-scoring leader with 24, for the next two seasons.

- BobDuff


Det has done a good job signing their younger talent. We all know about the older contracts so no need to go there. But why did Green take a two year deal at 5.375M per????? He is worth more and surely could have gotten more term with another team, He has surpassed 70 points multiple times in his career. Shocked he didn't wait for a 6 year deal. D were in high demand this offseason.
YzermanTheMan
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Reveen is JB’s salad tosser
Joined: 08.21.2013

Jul 17 @ 4:38 PM ET
Det has done a good job signing their younger talent. We all know about the older contracts so no need to go there. But why did Green take a two year deal at 5.375M per????? He is worth more and surely could have gotten more term with another team, He has surpassed 70 points multiple times in his career. Shocked he didn't wait for a 6 year deal. D were in high demand this offseason.
- bikeguy99

Holland probably has removable teeth at his age, makes it feel better.