Look at it this way, Schmaltz had 2 less points than Evander Kane last season, so E.Kane can now be used by Schmaltz as an arbitration example. If Schmaltz maintains or does even better, well, that's a slippery slop to having to pay Schmaltz a pretty damn fine amount.

- L_B_R

So any mongrel who put up 52 points, as Toews did last yr, demands 10.5 mil per? Toews is the comparable? No comparables on the low end?

Before you correct me that he wasn't an RFA, Stamkos, he of a 60 goal season, didn't use Toews as a comparable and as a result makes 2 mil per less than Toews?

If I recall from last year, we the lead then gave it up. A lot. If we can learn to hold the lead with a better team defense. We be o.k.

Happy independence day. Hockey is so far away.

Personally, I think Hino works better playing second line and using his offensive skill and speed and to me doesn't fit well on the bottom 6. I don't think he has the grit for the bottom 6 and I he can play the high tempo with Schmaltz. I could be wrong, but that is my rational for slotting him where I did.
- breadbag

Sure, lets put a guy who had 25pts in 50 games with a CF% over 54 in a 4th line energy role. That will utilize his talents quite well. Is he a top line guy? Probably not but he did play well there with Saad and Toews. He is probably best suited to a middle 6 role where his speed can create problems for the bottom pairs in the league. IMO.

Missed it. Any guesses? Vertigo?
- blackhawk24

Yea, but you wouldn't like 'em.

I'd get yelled at.

Yes. I thought Wingles was coming back. Damn that Stan.

We want Wingles.
- hocktock

Others have wondered this, but Wingels may not be 100% healthy after the head injury he suffered during the playoffs. If that's the case, then teams may be cautious at signing him at this point in time. Maybe a PTO or September signing? Early/mid season pick up if he needs more time to recover?

It was also rumored that Wingels was interested in returning to the Hawks but wanted a multi-year deal. Knowing Bowman's stance this off season, committing too much term to a veteran may be another reason the Hawks haven't re-signed him.

The above is the problem, all these babbling $@*^$ who are tired of context to explain away a last place club........ Tell me how it is, Sage. The context is they signed Ward and Kunitz is why they are the 5th oldest team in the league? Until they are moved out and replaced by the next 35 yr old "bridge" guys next yr? ...... Then the context will be:
- Mr Ricochet

Weren't you advocating signing 35 yr old Brodziak? Who also signed a Multi-year deal.
If Kunitz is able to buy some time for a guy or two to develop a bit more in RFD, fine by me. If he ends up spending half the season in the pressbox, even better. Its better to have an old vet who understands his role sitting in the pressbox as oppose to a younger guy who need ice time to develop his craft.

I have a poop ton more faith in the coach they have in RFD to develop players compared to Dent.

Others have wondered this, but Wingels may not be 100% healthy after the head injury he suffered during the playoffs. If that's the case, then teams may be cautious at signing him at this point in time. Maybe a PTO or September signing? Early/mid season pick up if he needs more time to recover?

It was also rumored that Wingels was interested in returning to the Hawks but wanted a multi-year deal. Knowing Bowman's stance this off season, committing too much term to a veteran may be another reason the Hawks haven't re-signed him.
- AEL_Fox

Ahhh.

Thanks

I don't understand it either. The Hawks have Schmaltz locked up for 4 more seasons barring an offer sheet, which almost never happens. And even if it does, they can match. No reason to give him a long term deal right now unless he's giving you a discount.
- tazer_and_diet

Didn’t they “lock up” Keith, Kane and Toews (maybe Sharp, too) to five-year high-AAV (for the time) deals in December, 2009 - before they won any Cups and before all of the individual honors?

Kane and Toews in the middle of their third seasons, locked up at over $6MM AAV.

I’m certainly not suggesting the Schmaltz and AdB are generational players like those three, but that’s the way the hockey world works. Nine years later, $5-$6MM over 5/6 years for Schmaltz seams reasonable v

Ahhh.

Thanks
- hocktock

Of course.

Who knows, Bowman and Wingels may have a handshake deal in place to rejoin the team but waiting for his health to clear. Or maybe Wingels isn't in the plans moving forward. Either way, would love to have Wingels back but his return isn't pivotal.

Yea, but you wouldn't like 'em.

I'd get yelled at.
- hocktock

Yelled at? By whom? Let it rip.

In the end they (we) all fall. First Simplejack, then Darth, next it’ll be Hocktock and the Zombie Apocalypse will be upon us when the juice/Kool Aid falls just below the halfway point of OldDuffman’s tumbler.
- HawkintheD

Agreed It's only a matter of time..

Here is a question for the group. Since Hossa is gone, do the Hawks have a RW that Q really trusts to play some shutdown defense. I know traditionally you think more about C position for defensive assignment, but wings play a part.

I have to wonder if that is the role they see for John Hayden (not replacing Hossa) but challenge him to take the Defensive side of the puck at the RW position.
- breadbag

Hayden seems to be the closest candidate. Consistently strong defensive forwards are Toews, Saad, and even Schmaltz to an extent (so 2 of those 3 are centers). Kunitz, too, I guess. After that, not much to work with.

Meanwhile, back at Blackhawks headquarters....

The above is the problem, all these babbling $@*^$ who are tired of context to explain away a last place club........ Tell me how it is, Sage. The context is they signed Ward and Kunitz is why they are the 5th oldest team in the league? Until they are moved out and replaced by the next 35 yr old "bridge" guys next yr? ...... Then the context will be:
- Mr Ricochet

I’m not sure what your spin is - that they ARE an old team, because the averages say so, or that they AREN’T, like I’m saying because of the context of the individual demographics.

The key to the next year or two is (a) can the “old core” (Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Toews, add in Q for completeness) return to some semblance of Cup-contending production, at the same time that (b) the inexperienced and unproven youngsters who form the bulk of the remaining roster take big leaps forward.

I’ve been pessimistic - too many things have to go well and right - but could happen.

Problem is I think some want to go rebuild and some don't and they don't talk in the front office and figure things out. An original 6 team should be spending and going for it every year not dealing with this garbage.

Didn’t they “lock up” Keith, Kane and Toews (maybe Sharp, too) to five-year high-AAV (for the time) deals in December, 2009 - before they won any Cups and before all of the individual honors?

Kane and Toews in the middle of their third seasons, locked up at over $6MM AAV.

I’m certainly not suggesting the Schmaltz and AdB are generational players like those three, but that’s the way the hockey world works. Nine years later, $5-$6MM over 5/6 years for Schmaltz seams reasonable v
- StLBravesFan

Indeed they did...
https://www.nhl.com/black...s-keith-and-kane/c-508483

“Today is another great day in our franchise’s decorated history,” Blackhawks General Manager Stan Bowman said. “We’ve said all along that the plan was to keep our core together for a long time and Jonathan, Duncan and Patrick are a major part of that. This is a large step toward setting the Blackhawks up for long-term success as an organization.”

worked out well don't ya all think!

He is an RFA with a year more under his ELC. Your team has no cap space as it is. He has one nice freshman year. Make him prove its not lightning in a bottle, and maybe win some faceoffs, and then you talk contract. Besides, we could use a few more incentives for players to play harder.

If he takes them to arbitration.....then he is not a team guy. His team needs him to take a bridge deal.
- Return of the Roar

Like I showed in that comparables table, most of the players that got the roughly 6x6 deals have similar games played as Schmaltz. Again, it's about cost certainty vs risk of him pricing himself out of the Hawks range in a year. Saad waited to sign any deals and the Hawks were forced to trade him because it allowed him to be priced outside their range. Cant build a team for the future if they lose every young player they develop. Isn't that very thing one of the reasons people are angry at Bowman - giving away the future??

And that whole "not a team player" stuff is bs. Would you take less money than your value at your job? No. Schmaltz could suffer any number of injuries while on that lower end under market value bridge and then lose out on the possibility of making enough to set up his life / his family / etc. Yeah it would make it easier to build a team, but it's not better for the player. This is his career we're talking about jfc. Saad was absolutely right wanting the more secure deal and it was market value for him so he had a right to ask for it.

Almost every other GM go with the cost certainty, that's why this type of deal is extremely common and dates back to pre-Kane/Toews. And in almost every case in that comparable list, it has worked out for the team and player just fine.

Problem is I think some want to go rebuild and some don't and they don't talk in the front office and figure things out. An original 6 team should be spending and going for it every year not dealing with this garbage.
- BlackhawkMike

If what you HAVE plus what you can reasonably (REASONABLY) GET gives you a roster that can be in the Vup contending picture.

Otherwise, you’re looking at a soft or a hard rebuild over up to several years.

Which scenario are the Hawks in?

So any mongrel who put up 52 points, as Toews did last yr, demands 10.5 mil per? Toews is the comparable? No comparables on the low end?

Before you correct me that he wasn't an RFA, Stamkos, he of a 60 goal season, didn't use Toews as a comparable and as a result makes 2 mil per less than Toews?
- Mr Ricochet

The low end comparables for Schmaltz are still in the $5.5m x 6/8 year range so Idt this point you're trying to make really works lol. People here want Schmaltz to take a like $3 x 3 deal when very few of his comparables do so. The Hawks haven't extended a player of Schmaltz's quality at the RFA level since Kane/Toews so I can understand why it's new territory for some Hawks fans but this is market value and that the value might rise next year if they wait. That's all anyone is saying.

Also you know the context of Stamkos taking less cause of tax breaks - it's well documented. You know who did use Toews as a comparable? McDavid, Eichel, Kopitar, and now Tavares. Less cups and such, but going rate for a 1C of a certain quality is at least $10m.

Didn’t they “lock up” Keith, Kane and Toews (maybe Sharp, too) to five-year high-AAV (for the time) deals in December, 2009 - before they won any Cups and before all of the individual honors?

Kane and Toews in the middle of their third seasons, locked up at over $6MM AAV.

I’m certainly not suggesting the Schmaltz and AdB are generational players like those three, but that’s the way the hockey world works. Nine years later, $5-$6MM over 5/6 years for Schmaltz seams reasonable v
- StLBravesFan

Exactly. If you adjust for market value changes and comparables to today, Kane/Toews second deals would be in the Draisaitl on the low end range to the Eichel range on the high end. Schmaltz doesn't have the history to be in that range obvs, which is why his comparables are Landeskog/Drouin/Larkin types that fall in the $6x6m range, give or take $500k and depending on term.

When breadbag is referring to Sikura, he is referring to Tyler and not Dylan.
- AEL_Fox

Same applys to both let them develop

I think the Hawks have no problem bottoming out for 2 years. They'll deal Keith at the TDL and hope that they can do a buyout of Seabrook when the new CBA comes up. Then Kane and Toews would be their only "big money" players locked in on payroll. Kane will still be producing in the top 10/20 ppg in the league. I'm still not convinced that Toews will be here but stranger things have happened.

Total rebuild and it started last year when missing the playoffs was inevitable.
- phantasmo

And how about Schmaltzy and Brinksy when their EL contracts expire? You probably of the existing original crew but no doubt those two above will get a huge bump in pay!

When I saw “baby core”, the names associated with it, and “locking them up” all in the same sentence, I shot the milk from my morning cereal through my nose.

NOTHING about Schmaltz, ADB or any of those other names points to them coming close to half of the calibre of our over the hill group’s peak to suggest they are a group to build around.

Again, so far away these Hawks are. David Haugh’s article was spot on, and likely the sharpest assessment of this team by the Chicago “beat writers” in YEARS.
- Return of the Roar

I think it's pretty unfair to compare, like apple to oranges. In Kane #1 overall draft pick, Toews #3, Seabs #14ish not sure, and Duncs a steal due to some issues at MSU in the 2nd. So with the success of 3 Cups, 1st rounders were at either very low and/or traded for that final push. But you are probably right in that that "baby core" will never reached the same lofty heights as the original BUT very in hockey overall has.

Still think CC may not be being counted on.

Said it yesterday after his interview on the Score, Stan answered that question very weird, and I believe he was lying, or probably more appropriately, not saying what he knows.

I don't know why, I'm not spreading any rumors as I have no info, I'm just telling you he's not telling the truth about CC, and I think its because he can't talk about it.
- vabeachbear

Missed it is there a link to the quote?

Same applys to both let them develop
- Scott1977

Sure, fair enough.