Vermette was the one that should have been acquired, but AA would have very likely been the difference. It was so bad eventually Q moved Shaw to L2-C and things picked up. It was a MAJOR gaff to move into that season with Handzus as L2-C. To his credit, Bowman did not make the same mistake in 2015, having gone out and picked up Richards, but poor job on foresight in 2014.
- kwolf68

Bowman tried to get Vermette in 2014 - the asking price was to much.

Zhawks misspelled Stanley Bowman. IF Bowman added a legit 2C in 2014 they beat LA. IF Bowman added to the defense group in 2016 opposed to getting bottom 6 forwards, they likely beat STL, and who knows how far they could've gone that year as STL went to the West Finals. Same story in 2017 when he had a terrible 3rd pair.
- EnzoD

Enzo - you blaming Bowman again to cover Q? You seem a little fuzzy - early start today? If only Q had even more Olympic players to chose from. Poor Poor Q.

Not a single person hates or refuses to admit the Hawks won 3 Cups. Any debate surrounds why or how those Cups were won and whether there should’ve been more success. Remember there has also been a load of First Round exits and now a missed play-offs.
- Z3Hawk

For the most part those first round exits made sense
2009-Lost in WCF to Wings. Wings were just more mature/better
2010-Check
2011-Canucks. Post cap purge, Hawks rally from 3-0 to take it to 7 against WCF Champs. Incredible effort
2012-Yotes. Team banged up, Crow not good, Hossa run
2013-Check
2014-Lost in WCF. failure to get another C likely biggest reason
2015-On back of only 4 D Hawks grind way to Cup. Check
2016-Lost in game 7 to Blues.
2017-Blown out...obvious Hawks washed up
2018-Continuation of 2017 meltdown

2009 the Hawks were too young
2017 the Hawks were too old

Leaving 7 other years of chances. Of those 7, they won 3 Cups, got to WCF once and they had 3 first round exits (two were coin flipper series and one the hawks were simply beaten up)

If the Hawks trade either of the first round picks for anything other than a similar pick, I will take a dump on my kitchen floor.

Have we learned nothing from the last three years of sacrificing draft picks for roster players?
- ObeseOprah

They've only traded their 1st round pick twice and it's been 50% success rate, so I'm not sure what the lesson they should have learned is.

Also rentals vs players that can contribute for a few or several years are different things. If all it took to get Faulk was the #27, I'd do that quickly.

If the Hawks trade either of the first round picks for anything other than a similar pick, I will take a dump on my kitchen floor.

Have we learned nothing from the last three years of sacrificing draft picks for roster players?
- ObeseOprah

Those trades were for rentals not players with term. I am not advocating trading either 1st but you are comparing apples to oranges.

Bowman tried to get Vermette in 2014 - the asking price was to much.
- L_B_R

No evidence of this. Had he tried, then he should have kept looking for a Center. Vermette wasn't the only one. If he did in fact go after him great, but subsequent NO moves lend evidence that Bowman was asleep in getting a necessary center.

Spin it all you want, but just as Q should get bashed for dumb stuff so too should Bowman. Just saying "he tried" simply won't work. His job is to get the best team on the ice period. In 2014 he failed. In 2015 he succeeded.

For the most part those first round exits made sense
2009-Lost in WCF to Wings. Wings were just more mature/better
2010-Check
2011-Canucks. Post cap purge, Hawks rally from 3-0 to take it to 7 against WCF Champs. Incredible effort
2012-Yotes. Team banged up, Crow not good, Hossa run
2013-Check
2014-Lost in WCF. failure to get another C likely biggest reason
2015-On back of only 4 D Hawks grind way to Cup. Check
2016-Lost in game 7 to Blues.
2017-Blown out...obvious Hawks washed up
2018-Continuation of 2017 meltdown

2009 the Hawks were too young
2017 the Hawks were too old

Leaving 7 other years of chances. Of those 7, they won 3 Cups, got to WCF once and they had 3 first round exits (two were coin flipper series and one the hawks were simply beaten up)
- kwolf68

If Dave Bolland is healthy in 2011 they probably win that series. He came back and thats when that flipped.

2014 WCF was some of the best hockey I've ever seen. Two tremendous teams battling out. I'd say that was more a proponent of one more bounce going the kings way than anything they could have done roster wise.

2016 they made some poor roster decisions with a mid year trade. Oops.
2017 lot of kids to break in, injuries and pieces that just didn't fit

They add a 3\4 center and a solid defender and they're probably ok pending Crawford. They add a center, top 6 forward and defender then they're probs back in the mix.

Pretty tough task to stay in it with the Cap and dilution of talent across the league.

If Dave Bolland is healthy in 2011 they probably win that series. He came back and thats when that flipped.

2014 WCF was some of the best hockey I've ever seen. Two tremendous teams battling out. I'd say that was more a proponent of one more bounce going the kings way than anything they could have done roster wise.

2016 they made some poor roster decisions with a mid year trade. Oops.
2017 lot of kids to break in, injuries and pieces that just didn't fit

They add a 3\4 center and a solid defender and they're probably ok pending Crawford. They add a center, top 6 forward and defender then they're probs back in the mix.

Pretty tough task to stay in it with the Cap and dilution of talent across the league.
- fattybeef

I agree, but disagree. It was amazing hockey. But the Hawks were beaten to death at Center. They nearly overcame it, but it was a MAJOR gaff to move into that series with Handzus as L2-C. MAJOR gaff. That was right smack dab in the middle of the Cup window. You do what you can do win. All they needed was one decent L2/3 Center. Of course the spin will be Bowman tried and tried and no one would make a trade. I call BS on that.

C'mon man.... Based on what? Who would have coached them to more cups? They almost went to three straight SC finals, save for an overtime G7 against the Kings. I'm not getting into your whole player vs coach argument, but this line is ill conceived.
- Chunk

Based on what? I don’t know perhaps a line-up full of Olympians. ProQers ALWAYS mention the OT loss to the Kings in the Conference Final as a positive for Q. It is NOT. The Hawks were clearly the better, more stacked team and lost in spite of home ice advantage.

All this interest in a Goalie makes me wonder if CC is heading to the Islanders?

No evidence of this. Had he tried, then he should have kept looking for a Center. Vermette wasn't the only one. If he did in fact go after him great, but subsequent NO moves lend evidence that Bowman was asleep in getting a necessary center.
- kwolf68

Eh, you don't consider all the reports around the TDL of Bowman wanting Vermette and other centers as evidence? That the ask was for Teravainen+? And even in 2015, when they did get Vermette, the reports like Friedman said they had wanted him the year before but couldn't make the deal work.

Also, I think it's kind of silly to say just because nothing worked out means Bowman failed. People can't complain about Bowman selling the future for playoff picks-ups in one post and then get annoyed when Bowman wasn't willing to completely sell off the future in a deal. There has to be a limit on what a team will give for a player in trade, obviously.

Based on what? I don’t know perhaps a line-up full of Olympians. ProQers ALWAYS mention the OT loss to the Kings in the Conference Final as a positive for Q. It is NOT. The Hawks were clearly the better, more stacked team and lost in spite of home ice advantage.
- Z3Hawk

Absolute non sense. The Kings were markedly better at Center and comparable in goal and Defense.

- riozzo

Seems a little crazy
But someday He'll prove
There's a big conspiracy

Eh, you don't consider all the reports around the TDL of Bowman wanting Vermette and other centers as evidence? That the ask was for Teravainen+? And even in 2015, when they did get Vermette, the reports like Friedman said they had wanted him the year before but couldn't make the deal work.

Also, I think it's kind of silly to say just because nothing worked out means Bowman failed. People can't complain about Bowman selling the future for playoff picks-ups in one post and then get annoyed when Bowman wasn't willing to completely sell off the future in a deal. There has to be a limit on what a team will give for a player in trade, obviously.
- L_B_R

So Bowman is made of teflon, awesome. And then you build a strawman talking about "selling the future". that's not part of the discussion. Had he traded X, Y or Z in 2014 for Center and come out and said, "we had to get another Center. We are going for the Cup"...translated, Handzus sucks and we can't win with him. That's what a GM does.

If the "ask" was TT etc...then move on, find someone else. Vermette was not the only center. Tells me there was no serious efforts to get Vermette. Why go hard for a center, lose out and go a...ahh (frank) it, we'll just stick with handzus. MAKES NO SENSE.

Of course, people celebrate his "Failed" attempts at later tries (getting Ladd for example). For the record, I liked that move. He went for it. It didn't work out, but he went for it, good job.

For the most part those first round exits made sense
2009-Lost in WCF to Wings. Wings were just more mature/better
2010-Check
2011-Canucks. Post cap purge, Hawks rally from 3-0 to take it to 7 against WCF Champs. Incredible effort
2012-Yotes. Team banged up, Crow not good, Hossa run
2013-Check
2014-Lost in WCF. failure to get another C likely biggest reason
2015-On back of only 4 D Hawks grind way to Cup. Check
2016-Lost in game 7 to Blues.
2017-Blown out...obvious Hawks washed up
2018-Continuation of 2017 meltdown

2009 the Hawks were too young
2017 the Hawks were too old

Leaving 7 other years of chances. Of those 7, they won 3 Cups, got to WCF once and they had 3 first round exits (two were coin flipper series and one the hawks were simply beaten up)
- kwolf68

Please - what is this post? If only Bowman had given Q even more Olympic players? If only the hockey gods hadn’t conspired against Q? You Q apologists are simply incredible although this might be the most “out there” Q post I’ve ever read. Unless you are prepared to tell me that Q had the same importance to the Hawks as Gallant had the Knights there really is nothing to discuss.

Lehner is UFA now, he'd be an above average backup. My only knocks on him from watching way too many Sabres games over the last 3 years are that:

A: He's certifiably insane, which can be fun to watch

B: He absolutely can not make a save in a shootout, ever.

Please - what is this post? If only Bowman had given Q even more Olympic players? If only the hockey gods hadn’t conspired against Q? You Q apologists are simply incredible although this might be the most “out there” Q post I’ve ever read. Unless you are prepared to tell me that Q had the same importance to the Hawks as Gallant had the Knights there really is nothing to discuss.
- Z3Hawk

Q apologist? So says the Bowman apologist.

Riddle me this...HOW MANY of those Olympic players given to Q were given to him by Stan Bowman?

When Q hits the street with want ads in his hand he'll be looking for work for about 10 minutes. Bowman, not so sure.

Hawks had enough of a roster to win in 2014 but they took LA too lightly early in the series. They had a deep enough team if they showed up early in the series they would have won the cup.

CC and Hossa for Anderson and Dutch. What says you?

Absolute non sense. The Kings were markedly better at Center and comparable in goal and Defense.
- kwolf68

Kings were incredibly DEEP at center in '14. Picking up Gaborik at the deadline was huge. Kopitar, Carter & Gabby...

CC and Hossa for Anderson and Dutch. What says you?
- powerenforcer

would be hard to turn down, but why would the Sens do this?

They've only traded their 1st round pick twice and it's been 50% success rate, so I'm not sure what the lesson they should have learned is.

Also rentals vs players that can contribute for a few or several years are different things. If all it took to get Faulk was the #27, I'd do that quickly.
- L_B_R

The Hawks won the Cup so the Vermette trade is spun as a huge success but the Hawks overpaid for Vermette. The trade for Ladd was just ludicrous. Also Faulk is an awful player - just ask Carolina fans.

Kings were incredibly DEEP at center in '14. Picking up Gaborik at the deadline was huge. Kopitar, Carter & Gabby...
- Q-stache

Yep, Kings made a great deadline move and that was the difference. But if the Hawks grab even a capable L3-C then who knows. Whatever needed to be done to get Handzus OUT the lineup. I guess winning with him in 2013 created a false sense of security.

Absolute non sense. The Kings were markedly better at Center and comparable in goal and Defense.
- kwolf68

Wrong!

Absolute non sense. The Kings were markedly better at Center and comparable in goal and Defense.
- kwolf68

How were they markedly better at center? Kopitar was comparable to Toews, Carter was better than anything the Hawks tried at 2C, but Kruger+Shaw were better than Stoll (who was poop by then) +Trevor Lewis (who has never been above replacement level. They were slightly better at center, but the Hawks' wings were better than the Kings. Yeah, a better 2C would have helped, but they didn't have / were willing to give up the assets to acquire one so. Think the Hawks defense was better too - Leddy-Rozsival was better then Mitchell-Green.

Those were two really close teams in terms of quality / skill. Different styles, but evenly matched overall.