You say Toews may be declining.

I say how much more and how soon he declines farther. You are hard pressed to introduce rvifrncr or support a claim that he can return to old form, even slightly return to old form, or be more productive as Toews II model. I would be glad to eat my words, no problem doing so if we see a near miraculous response from #19.

Tell you have hat, blog Rick from Canada gets the Canadian read on everything and has good analysis. I wonder how he feels about Toews' future. And btw whom he wants Bowman to take at # 8? Because I know that Rick has worked on entry fraftaterisl in the past and has a keen insight.
- jhawk59

I'm not hard pressed - I've done it quite a few times and will be happy to do so again when I have a breaking point at work longer than a few minutes at a time. I'll just note that Toews underlying and micro stats are still top line and that he has had two years of late season pushes of high production that suggest that he could reach higher than his past totals.

Obviously not all that matters but here's a small snap shot of Toews micro stats:

I'm not hard pressed - I've done it quite a few times and will be happy to do so again when I have a breaking point at work longer than a few minutes at a time. I'll just note that Toews underlying and micro stats are still top line and that he has had two years of late season pushes of high production that suggest that he could reach higher than his past totals.

Obviously not all that matters but here's a small snap shot of Toews micro stats:




- L_B_R

And this is why we are glad you post!

Here's a fun non-hockey story

Friend of mine/coworker went golfing solo this weekend here (I live in Vegas). Got put into a group of 3...one of the 3...Mr.OJ Simpson..haha
- PatShart

Did his golf glove fit?

Here's a fun non-hockey story

Friend of mine/coworker went golfing solo this weekend here (I live in Vegas). Got put into a group of 3...one of the 3...Mr.OJ Simpson..haha
- PatShart

Did his golf glove fit?

Here's a fun non-hockey story

Friend of mine/coworker went golfing solo this weekend here (I live in Vegas). Got put into a group of 3...one of the 3...Mr.OJ Simpson..haha
- PatShart

Did he count his clubs when they finished?

Haha...my friend wanted to ask/borrow a glove soooooo bad.

Apparently, he was pretty talkative the whole time and "overly" nice

- riozzo

Start of the left vs. right debate.

Toews is not just beginning to decline a bit. Take off the blinders. He has issues. I hope he can return somewhat to his old form. But years of bodily abuse through his wear and tear style plus concussions is a huge factor. Here is what it boils down to: show us what you have left in the tank. I think that is what Rocky means if you read between the lines (so to speak).

LATE ADD maybe Rocky is calling out to their pride and to care enough to try harder, no D Keith crap attitude (although I do not know for sure last season if Keith was toatally recovered from the knee injury).

Look...Bowman at some point has to tell McDonough and Rocky that he can not milk his veterans to another playoff and that the cost of winning three Cups plus winning seasons is that the team will fall back and needs to be a rebuild based on drafting successfully more than anything else. This should be common sense. If Bowman wants to keep his job, he has to get that message across. But you wonder what is going through McDonough mind when he hires a firm to evaluate....a non hockey sports mind decision...excuse is that he
- jhawk59[McDonough] is covering all angles in assessing what I'll this team.

isn't that another way of saying he's declining?

My apologies, hockey man-friend!
- wiz1901

Here is question if say hawks say for example acquire matt martin and have already signed martinsin have hayden maybe bring in another physical forward d man i wonder is thats signals to toews that they listening to him because over the few years he and kane have complained that there has not enough pushback and toughness on the team. Considering the type of game toews plays and the fact he takes a lot of punishment and is tried of the cheap shots snd liberties taken and no teammates doing anything about it and not having each others back gets Johnny going again..

I'm not hard pressed - I've done it quite a few times and will be happy to do so again when I have a breaking point at work longer than a few minutes at a time. I'll just note that Toews underlying and micro stats are still top line and that he has had two years of late season pushes of high production that suggest that he could reach higher than his past totals.

Obviously not all that matters but here's a small snap shot of Toews micro stats:




- L_B_R

If Q plays Saad-Toews-Kane as a line the entire season, Toews can get 70 points. The issue is that what appears to be clear about Toews offensive production is that it relies HEAVILY on having one of the best RWs in the World on his line (Hossa or Kane). The points started coming about about a PPG once Kaner (the only true superstar left on the team) started feeding Toews and Saad. For $10.5mil with a $6mil winger on his line in Saad, you'd hope that Toews could consistently produce near a PPG avg without having to put Kane on his line.

I think one of the big ingredients the Hawks are missing is: "ugly" guys that can do their job.

When I look at the current roster, it seems like they've tried to slot in flashy talent at everyone position. Obviously talent is important; however, I think there's just a lot of the same mold of player on ice right now: smallish guys, tend to shy from physical play, looking to pass instead of shoot, etc., etc...

When the Hawks were surging, they had a mix of guys who complimented each other. You had your Toews, Kane, Keith, etc. guys. Then you had guys that didn't have that level of talent BUT what they brought to the table was solid play. The kind of guys who you didn't really hear their names called out during the game--they just went out and executed the fundamentals and did their jobs and didn't try to outplay themselves. They knew what they were capable of and stayed within those parameters because they got results.

I always think about Sopel as the example. Here was a guy who was never going to be a Keith or Seabrook and that was fine. What he did was block shots, clear the zone, get physical, stay-at-home and most importantly: he ate minutes (reliably) for Keith/Seabrook and the more skilled blueliners to rest and stay fresh.

I think what I'm trying to say is that they may need to bring some variety in skillsets to the Madhouse. You don't have to look for multiple Schmaltz-type players, you know?

If Q plays Saad-Toews-Kane as a line the entire season, Toews can get 70 points. The issue is that what appears to be clear about Toews offensive production is that it relies HEAVILY on having one of the best RWs in the World on his line (Hossa or Kane). The points started coming about about a PPG once Kaner (the only true superstar left on the team) started feeding Toews and Saad. For $10.5mil with a $6mil winger on his line in Saad, you'd hope that Toews could consistently produce near a PPG avg without having to put Kane on his line.
- EnzoD

He also performed well with Schmaltz on his wing.

Just out of curiosity, what drew you guys to the Hawks? If you grew up in Toronto, how did you become a Hawks fan?
- Hank3Henshaw

I always think of the first time I met Toews and he asked me the same question, "What made you become a Blackhawks fan"... I didn't have an amazing answer for him then, and don't have one now.

I loved the logo and I was 7 years old. I am an extremely loyal person, so from there, I stuck with them and have been a fan ever since - through the good times and bad (very bad!).

I always think of the first time I met Toews and he asked me the same question, "What made you become a Blackhawks fan"... I didn't have an amazing answer for him then, and don't have one now.

I loved the logo and I was 7 years old. I am an extremely loyal person, so from there, I stuck with them and have been a fan ever since - through the good times and bad (very bad!).
- Justin Lowe

Very nice. Yea, I was just curious. I'm always interested in how people from out -of-market came to like teams.

And you're right...there's been some very bad years! Haha.

Nobody wants more pessimism

To consider O'Reilly in the same level as Toews is an error, and the trade would probably be a Cap hockey trade with a young right handed defender Trouba coming aloing with Bryan Little as I posted in the end of the previous blog:

And before someone starts ripping into me about the Winnipeg Jets future salaries affecting a giant Toews cap hit: Unless the Jets don’t draft in the next four drafts, they are going to have a problem…not being able to use the draft AS a tool to be Cap compliant…there is so much talent and just so much money, right?

I NEVER thought they would NOT beat Vegas, but they had so many of their youngsters faces on milk cartons it was embarrassing so Toews is simply a great fit, and they are the talent he needs to resurrent his totals too.
They want to make a run next year, and WILL be a huge factor for the next half dozen but no guarantees, right?
They probably want to lose Bryan Little deal so he comes with Trouba.
To keep Wheeler, Laine, Kyle Connor. (No bridge deals for those two), and Tyler Myers, right?
- wiz1901

No way you get trouba for Toews. I dont think you can even get Zach Bogosian for Toews.

1 Leadership card is so overrated. Only reason he was considered a great leader is because they had amazing team. For god sakes people are now saying Ovi is great leader now.

2. Was never a good offensive player. His bread and butter was shutdown center.

3. So that all being said who would take Toews over O’Reilly. Even if they had same salary. O’reilly is 3 years younger. He is a better Offensive player ( no debate here. He puts up more points on the worst team in the league.) He is the best faceoff guy in league and maybe ever ( just broke every faceoff record last year). And arguably equal defensive abilities. When he plays on playoff team he is a selke finalist. On top of all this he makes 3 million dollars less.

Very nice. Yea, I was just curious. I'm always interested in how people from out -of-market came to like teams.

And you're right...there's been some very bad years! Haha.
- Hank3Henshaw

I've always gone against the grain and wasn't super close to the Toronto area so leaned towards the Blackhawks and never looked back.

Also, they had some solid Canadians on there to cheer for like Ed Belfour... one of my all-time faves.

No way you get trouba for Toews. I dont think you can even get Zach Bogosian for Toews.

1 Leadership card is so overrated. Only reason he was considered a great leader is because they had amazing team. For god sakes people are now saying Ovi is great leader now.

2. Was never a good offensive player. His bread and butter was shutdown center.

3. So that all being said who would take Toews over O’Reilly. Even if they had same salary. O’reilly is 3 years younger. He is a better Offensive player ( no debate here. He puts up more points on the worst team in the league.) He is the best faceoff guy in league and maybe ever ( just broke every faceoff record last year). And arguably equal defensive abilities. When he plays on playoff team he is a selke finalist. On top of all this he makes 3 million dollars less.
- BigDog912

Truth be told...I'd love to see O'Reilly on the Hawks.

I've always liked his game.

Truth be told...I'd love to see O'Reilly on the Hawks.

I've always liked his game.
- Hank3Henshaw

I truly believe he is younger Toews. Prolly why you love his game.

No way you get trouba for Toews. I dont think you can even get Zach Bogosian for Toews.

1 Leadership card is so overrated. Only reason he was considered a great leader is because they had amazing team. For god sakes people are now saying Ovi is great leader now.

2. Was never a good offensive player. His bread and butter was shutdown center.

3. So that all being said who would take Toews over O’Reilly. Even if they had same salary. O’reilly is 3 years younger. He is a better Offensive player ( no debate here. He puts up more points on the worst team in the league.) He is the best faceoff guy in league and maybe ever ( just broke every faceoff record last year). And arguably equal defensive abilities. When he plays on playoff team he is a selke finalist. On top of all this he makes 3 million dollars less.
- BigDog912

I look forward to you coming back here when Ryan O'Reilly is traded for a late first and B-prospect

I agree that who plays RW with Saad and Toews is incredibly important to the numbers Saad and Toews put up. I do not think a playmaker like Schmaltz is the answer. You need a scorer too, someone who likes to shoot the puck. Someone defenders need to gravitate towards. A dual threat (pass/shoot). I also think size and physicality matter. Toews was more physical before his concussions. He has scaled it back a bit, and I do not blame him for that. But if he had a physical presence on both wings that might lessen the requirement for Toews to be as physical and it might lessen defenders hacking and hammering Toews if they know there might be payback from one of his wingers. A Hossa clone would be perfect, but they do not exist. But they will try to get someone in that mold.
- -Doh-

I think someone who is physical and can shoot is a benefit, but I just really feel the ability to make those plays/passes is what the line is lacking. Hossa could do it all in his prime. Toews/Saad didn't work well with another shooter in Panik (who was fast and physical) but Toews/Panik had good success with Schmaltz, and Saad/Toews worked well with Kane. Toews can drive possession and score from in close but I think he works well when he has someone that can play well with the puck on their stick. Othewise the line has to try to out muscle everyone and that will continue to get harder as the years go by.

If Q plays Saad-Toews-Kane as a line the entire season, Toews can get 70 points. The issue is that what appears to be clear about Toews offensive production is that it relies HEAVILY on having one of the best RWs in the World on his line (Hossa or Kane). The points started coming about about a PPG once Kaner (the only true superstar left on the team) started feeding Toews and Saad. For $10.5mil with a $6mil winger on his line in Saad, you'd hope that Toews could consistently produce near a PPG avg without having to put Kane on his line.
- EnzoD

Some interesting stats on Toews and AA, must admit was a little surprised at the AA stats:


Toews 2015/16 shot percentage 15.6 ranked 14th

Toews 2016/16 shot percentage 10.5 ranked 79th

Toews 2017/18 shot percentage 9.5% ranked 114th

AA

2015/16 shot percentage 16.5 ranked 6th

2016/17 shot percentage 20.9 ranked 1st

2017/18 shot percentage 15.4 ranked 20th

I truly believe he is younger Toews. Prolly why you love his game.
- BigDog912

I saw his comments at the end of the season. Couldn't tell if it was him being baby or him speaking some truth to light a fire and maybe spark a change.

What was your take on that whole thing?

If Q plays Saad-Toews-Kane as a line the entire season, Toews can get 70 points. The issue is that what appears to be clear about Toews offensive production is that it relies HEAVILY on having one of the best RWs in the World on his line (Hossa or Kane). The points started coming about about a PPG once Kaner (the only true superstar left on the team) started feeding Toews and Saad. For $10.5mil with a $6mil winger on his line in Saad, you'd hope that Toews could consistently produce near a PPG avg without having to put Kane on his line.
- EnzoD

It's not that Toews relies heavily on having the best players, but that he's like many players - he needs to have a balanced line. Take this last season where Toews had one of his best passing seasons but then had Saad on his line with his career lowest sh%. Toews is doing his part to feed the puck to Saad, but Saad is somehow not shooting as well as usual (despite taking more shots from high danger areas). The reason slotting Kane up worked is because Kane was able to pot some of those goals off passes as well as actually feed Toews.

Why did Schmaltz-Toews-Panik work so well that Toews almost had a PPG with them? Because it worked to their strengths with playmaking, high volume shooting, and downlow/board play. Toews shot more from the slot with Schmaltz on his line than with anyone since Kane years ago because Schmaltz was an excellent in-slot passer. Panik was good along the walls and for in-close shots, so it just really worked for them.

Toews doesn't need to have Kane on his line to produce - we saw last year when they were put together for a while that it doesn't always work - but he does need to have line mates that work together properly. I'm not arguing that Toews probably should be able to hack it with most anyone at his current cap hit, but just that it isn't true of most players, even other top centers (Kopitar and Bergeron both had upticks after line changes). Toews significant drop in sh% last year and this year suggest he needs to have another playmaker on his line to help get him the puck some - that's not Saad's top strength, but Hossa/Kane/Schmaltz were great at it.

Find the right combo for Toews early in the season and I believe that he will rebound more consistently vs having these late season pushes. This isn't a guarantee by any means, just that his underlying numbers/micro stats and the fact that he's done it for half seasons suggests it's likely.

Today @ 1:06 AM ET
I am not lying when I tell you they are disappointed in Toews on more than three different levels right now.



He has lacked the game by game dominance in my areas, the need for a "better season this one."
Injury related cautions and issues
That he is not doing as much off ice promotion the entire year, what they think ispartof "captaining."
- wiz1901

Thank you very much for responding. I'm glad to hear it's primarily on-ice related.

Does Brady Tkachuk fall to the Hawks at 8 with Wahlstrom, Kotkaniemi and Bouchard/Dobson trending up? I'd wager that AT WORST you have Tom Wilson-esque type player and at BEST you have......Keith Keith Tkachuk2.0