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Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: Rockford Files – Tidbits, Whispers and Educated Thoughts
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Hawkster
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Quebec , QC
Joined: 06.13.2008

Jun 9 @ 6:31 PM ET
I literally can't wait until we make a deal, so we can scrutinize that for a few pages, instead of bashing Jonathan Toews for his "lack" of leadership or whether Joel Quenneville is a "good" coach..... ridiculous...
- SoftServe


Hard to criticize a guy when none of us have been in the room. Bottom line the guy has been a winner throughout his career on many levels so he must be doing something right. Would never questions his desire.

He's just lost a few steps and makes way too much money for what he NOW brings so there lies the dilemma?

Trade the face of the franchise or wallow in mediocrity for the next four years cause your money is tied up in aging players who no longer produce at the price your paying them?

What to do??????

bogiedoc
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: VA
Joined: 09.27.2011

Jun 9 @ 6:33 PM ET
Personally love crow but are the competing for a cup in the next 2 years i hate to say but no not unless drastic changes happen. So if say the IsLanders for example are willing to give the hawks the 11th pick and a prospect say shane prince for intance would you that deal plus his contract comes off the books and gain 6 million per year for the 2 years obviously the wouldn't trade him unless they had a plan to backfill crow's spot.
- Scott1977


if the isles are stupid enough to offer that...then stanbow is on the phone asking crow to waive his NMC....
Savoy
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Spencer, NC
Joined: 01.15.2014

Jun 9 @ 6:54 PM ET
I think Toews will definitely bounce back strong. He still has all the tools. More importantly he knows who he is. He still had 52 points in only 74 games last year playing with little to no help. This guy has been a very successful hockey player and competitor since he was a child. That's how he earned the nickname Captain Serious in the first place. I believe he will go balls to the wall at least trying to play up to his contract.
Savoy
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Spencer, NC
Joined: 01.15.2014

Jun 9 @ 7:05 PM ET
As last season went on, it became more apparent that Crawford was the sole MVP. If he is back to his old self I am 110% against trading him.
z1990z
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: NW USA
Joined: 02.09.2012

Jun 9 @ 7:13 PM ET
As last season went on, it became more apparent that Crawford was the sole MVP. If he is back to his old self I am 110% against trading him.
- Savoy



Crow was holding the team together. When he left, everything was exposed and the sound of skidding tires was heard around the NHL. If the Hawks can land two top four D in the off season, you might be able to move him if you have a competent starter coming in. Hutton or Elliott etc... And then you need Q to find the right buttons to hit with his remaining aging D core, that being 7 and 2.

Alot has to go right this off season. The wild card with Crow could be Rocky Wirtz. If Rocky has grown tired of the CC issues?? Was the December problem simply an on going concussion issue from the season or did he get hurt on days off?
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

Jun 9 @ 9:07 PM ET
I think Toews will definitely bounce back strong. He still has all the tools. More importantly he knows who he is. He still had 52 points in only 74 games last year playing with little to no help. This guy has been a very successful hockey player and competitor since he was a child. That's how he earned the nickname Captain Serious in the first place. I believe he will go balls to the wall at least trying to play up to his contract.
- Savoy


The team needs to acquire a premier defense-first centre to take that responsibility from Toews. I’m not saying Toews could be a 100 point forward but he could do more if there was another centre (or centres) that could focus on defensive situations and allow Toews the freedom to concentrate on his offense.
Panarin27
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 05.25.2015

Jun 9 @ 9:12 PM ET
Illinois is getting a D1 program next year apparently. Very excited im going there next yr.
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

Jun 9 @ 10:28 PM ET
The team needs to acquire a premier defense-first centre to take that responsibility from Toews. I’m not saying Toews could be a 100 point forward but he could do more if there was another centre (or centres) that could focus on defensive situations and allow Toews the freedom to concentrate on his offense.
- DarthKane

Anybody you have in mine that could fill that role? hawks need 2 centers to me smaltz would be better on the lw and AA 3rd line center or trade him
Abadseed
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Arlington hts, IL
Joined: 01.20.2014

Jun 9 @ 11:01 PM ET
Anybody you have in mine that could fill that role? hawks need 2 centers to me smaltz would be better on the lw and AA 3rd line center or trade him
- Scott1977


Beagle and Tavares
TTtime
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.17.2015

Jun 9 @ 11:01 PM ET
Anybody you have in mine that could fill that role? hawks need 2 centers to me smaltz would be better on the lw and AA 3rd line center or trade him
- Scott1977

2 players. One, a LBH fav, JP Pageau. More a Bolland type than Kruger. Two. Riley Nash.
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

Jun 9 @ 11:46 PM ET
Anybody you have in mine that could fill that role? hawks need 2 centers to me smaltz would be better on the lw and AA 3rd line center or trade him
- Scott1977



Adam Lowry
Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

Jun 10 @ 3:24 AM ET
Magical things? He actually won 3 Cups in a cap era where parity is at its highest peak.

He hasn't "won cups of he was coaching X team" or any other made up scenarios

He played in the NHL 800+ games
He's coached for over 1600 gms
2nd winningest coach in the 100yrs of the league
3x Cup winner
Won coach over the year
Only missed playoffs twice
Coached in the clutch/grab era and now the open skating/speed game
First ballot HOF

How about you? How much have you actually ever been around anyone on this team or any professional team at alone any success you've had?

For you to think he cares about his mustache grooming kinda gives me your resume on your hockey knowledge. And for you to "assume" he destroys players confidence(because of Kempny,
I'm sure, yet what is factual is players around the entire league vote him the guy they WANT to play for) or now doesnt like Dineen (great made up story...run with it!) I guess when you dont have facts it's best to make up things and see what sticks

- PatShart


Lighten up - there are people on the internet who post as “Q’s Mustache” for heaven’s sake which I think is funny. It’s all just joking.

I guess it is NOT a fact that Kempny played for Coach Q AND lost his confidence. Not my words or opinion - Kempny’s words. Kempny’s words. I also guess Dineen did not truthfully unload a huge amount of criticism in exit interviews after the 2016-2017 season. It was widely reported that his honesty saved his job. I also guess that Kitchen’s actual firing was make-believe too. You know Q was mad his buddy Kitchen got fired.

Q has always coached very stacked teams full of great players. He has been brilliant but only in being opportunistic. Eventually the Blues said take a hike. So did the Avalanche. So should the Hawks. Just like the Warriors haven’t won titles because of Kerr, neither did the Hawks win titles because of Q. Many posters have said that the Hawks were a challenged team last year, not full of talent. Well let’s use last year as a point of reference. Q actually had to coach and we saw how that went.

Also you got me - you are totally right - I have never had “success” working for, playing for or being close to the Hawks or any other NHL team. However, I have had loads of “success” - but as a Lawyer.

If you want to believe that Q somehow played a big role in the Hawks’ Cups that’s fine. However, I’ll maintain he played about as much a role as Kerr. Healthy, impersonal debate is great.


Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

Jun 10 @ 3:36 AM ET
You said Toews traditionally doesn’t lead or lead by example, that’s why you got the Star Trek facepalm. You didn’t say anything about Toews’ leadership ability recently.

Also, just because Kane is stepping up his leadership game that doesn’t mean Toews is any less of a leader. Kane is filling the void left by other leaders that have left and he’s doing a damn fine job.

- DarthKane


You avoided my question - tell us examples of how Toews is leading traditionally or by example. Also I have consistently been highly critical of Toews’ lack of leadership on and off the ice. From missing Conventions, to not helping young players to crazy training regimens - the list is long.
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

Jun 10 @ 5:49 AM ET
Adam Lowry
- DarthKane


That's the player I want also along with Riley Nash 3rd and 4th line centers.

What would be the trade to get Lowery? Could the hawks get him with one of those 3rd round picks? The Jets are going to experience cap problems going forward because have to sign several key players in the next 2 years. So maybe Lowery might a player jets be willing to trade Copp would be another player keep an eye on.
walleyeb1
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Petersburg, IL
Joined: 09.25.2014

Jun 10 @ 10:30 AM ET
You avoided my question - tell us examples of how Toews is leading traditionally or by example. Also I have consistently been highly critical of Toews’ lack of leadership on and off the ice. From missing Conventions, to not helping young players to crazy training regimens - the list is long.
- Z3Hawk


He’s not doing “REAL SMOOTH, REAL SMOOTH” commercials!
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

Jun 10 @ 10:46 AM ET
You avoided my question - tell us examples of how Toews is leading traditionally or by example. Also I have consistently been highly critical of Toews’ lack of leadership on and off the ice. From missing Conventions, to not helping young players to crazy training regimens - the list is long.
- Z3Hawk



The reality is that nobody on a message board will know the leadership abilities of any hockey player first hand. We are not in the locker room or on the bench, we have to rely on what we hear in the various media outlets. For the past decade the media has consistently reported about Toews' leadership, for Kane it's only been that past year. or so.

Bottom line....we all have no idea how good or bad of a leader Toews and Kane really are.
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

Jun 10 @ 11:05 AM ET
That's the player I want also along with Riley Nash 3rd and 4th line centers.

What would be the trade to get Lowery? Could the hawks get him with one of those 3rd round picks? The Jets are going to experience cap problems going forward because have to sign several key players in the next 2 years. So maybe Lowery might a player jets be willing to trade Copp would be another player keep an eye on.

- Scott1977


Copp would be another good addition. I think it would cost more than a 3rd to acquire Lowry. My guess would be a prospect and a pick, both mid-level. Maybe a 3rd + Krys or Soderlund?
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Jun 10 @ 11:21 AM ET
I think Toews will definitely bounce back strong. He still has all the tools. More importantly he knows who he is. He still had 52 points in only 74 games last year playing with little to no help. This guy has been a very successful hockey player and competitor since he was a child. That's how he earned the nickname Captain Serious in the first place. I believe he will go balls to the wall at least trying to play up to his contract.
- Savoy[/quote

Reality is numerous seasons of abuse via whacking with sticks or hard checking and, moreover, at least 6-7 concussions leave him so worried about his fragility going forward, that he had to change his playing style. One concussion away from calling it a career? He wants to collect on his last Blackhawks contract while still relatively young and also still enjoy playing. He is at a crossroads; does his peformance level increase, decrease, spike at times throughout a single game or stretch of games?

Any fan and both the GM and coach should recognize Toews skates in a dicey situation. He is a face of the franchise. McDonough will watch more closely - he has hired an executive performance team or some such non hockey based business evaluation group - so how much does a coach rely on version II Toews?

Often refuses to be involved in a physical checking battle along boards, occasionally makes a big check. His reliance upon a skill skating game at his salary is all he has to offer, and it is not even the level of top line worthy. So he still does well at the face off dot...thank goodness for one aspect of his game remaining above average

How do you expect he is ever able to return to top form? Is there some equipment and or physical training which prevents another concussion. Be realistic and just admit that his best days are behind him. I am not happy about this but I am a realist. I am left wondering how soon might his game suffer more....to the point where a broken Toews has to face press box or retire.

Q: relentless. Toews relentless = career ends sooner
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Jun 10 @ 11:34 AM ET
[quote=jhawk59]
Dear Justin,

Sooner or later I feel you will obviously need to address the Toews situation which I have laid out in the post immediately above.
6628
Joined: 08.24.2009

Jun 10 @ 11:49 AM ET
Lighten up - there are people on the internet who post as “Q’s Mustache” for heaven’s sake which I think is funny. It’s all just joking.

I guess it is NOT a fact that Kempny played for Coach Q AND lost his confidence. Not my words or opinion - Kempny’s words. Kempny’s words. I also guess Dineen did not truthfully unload a huge amount of criticism in exit interviews after the 2016-2017 season. It was widely reported that his honesty saved his job. I also guess that Kitchen’s actual firing was make-believe too. You know Q was mad his buddy Kitchen got fired.

Q has always coached very stacked teams full of great players. He has been brilliant but only in being opportunistic. Eventually the Blues said take a hike. So did the Avalanche. So should the Hawks. Just like the Warriors haven’t won titles because of Kerr, neither did the Hawks win titles because of Q. Many posters have said that the Hawks were a challenged team last year, not full of talent. Well let’s use last year as a point of reference. Q actually had to coach and we saw how that went.

Also you got me - you are totally right - I have never had “success” working for, playing for or being close to the Hawks or any other NHL team. However, I have had loads of “success” - but as a Lawyer.

If you want to believe that Q somehow played a big role in the Hawks’ Cups that’s fine. However, I’ll maintain he played about as much a role as Kerr. Healthy, impersonal debate is great.

- Z3Hawk



Nice post. I tend to agree with Shart more times than not, but not in this case. I especially like the Kerr/Q comparison.
Hawkytalk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Frankfort, IL
Joined: 06.26.2012

Jun 10 @ 11:52 AM ET
He’s not doing “REAL SMOOTH, REAL SMOOTH” commercials!
- walleyeb1


That's probably because he wasn't approached to do the commercial .
WHY ????

He's no longer smooth, and most definitely not "REAL SMOOTH" any longer.

Weak on his skates, loses most battles in the corners, confined himself to mainly a 5 hole shooter that most goal tenders are now aware of, rarely creates scoring chances for his line mates, has trouble hanging on to tape to tape passes right on his stick, and.......... his puck handling skills/hands have deteriorated to the point where he probably couldn't dominate in the AHL as a #1C. Well......... that's maybe a little harsh but watching him last year shift after shift left me and others wonder what went wrong so fast.

I guess he's still a good faceoff center based on the stats, however, until the stats define O zone and D zone draws, and PK/PP draws won or lost, I sometimes shake my head watching the continued KEY losses in important situations. The EYE test.

He is the key to any possible resurgence of this team and the thought of moving him is intriguing and quite possibly the smart move. The fact is.... another sub standard season for a 10.5 cap hit will probably kill any hopes of moving him ever in the future.

Does anybody even think that Hawks management has had any type of conversation with him about Diet, Exercise, Training, etc over this past offseason ?

walleyeb1
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Petersburg, IL
Joined: 09.25.2014

Jun 10 @ 12:25 PM ET
That's probably because he wasn't approached to do the commercial .
WHY ????

He's no longer smooth, and most definitely not "REAL SMOOTH" any longer.

Weak on his skates, loses most battles in the corners, confined himself to mainly a 5 hole shooter that most goal tenders are now aware of, rarely creates scoring chances for his line mates, has trouble hanging on to tape to tape passes right on his stick, and.......... his puck handling skills/hands have deteriorated to the point where he probably couldn't dominate in the AHL as a #1C. Well......... that's maybe a little harsh but watching him last year shift after shift left me and others wonder what went wrong so fast.

I guess he's still a good faceoff center based on the stats, however, until the stats define O zone and D zone draws, and PK/PP draws won or lost, I sometimes shake my head watching the continued KEY losses in important situations. The EYE test.

He is the key to any possible resurgence of this team and the thought of moving him is intriguing and quite possibly the smart move. The fact is.... another sub standard season for a 10.5 cap hit will probably kill any hopes of moving him ever in the future.

Does anybody even think that Hawks management has had any type of conversation with him about Diet, Exercise, Training, etc over this past offseason ?

- Hawkytalk


I’m sure they have but I don’t really see him as the listing type, especially when it comes to his diet.
z1990z
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: NW USA
Joined: 02.09.2012

Jun 10 @ 1:02 PM ET
That's probably because he wasn't approached to do the commercial .
WHY ????

He's no longer smooth, and most definitely not "REAL SMOOTH" any longer.

Weak on his skates, loses most battles in the corners, confined himself to mainly a 5 hole shooter that most goal tenders are now aware of, rarely creates scoring chances for his line mates, has trouble hanging on to tape to tape passes right on his stick, and.......... his puck handling skills/hands have deteriorated to the point where he probably couldn't dominate in the AHL as a #1C. Well......... that's maybe a little harsh but watching him last year shift after shift left me and others wonder what went wrong so fast.

I guess he's still a good faceoff center based on the stats, however, until the stats define O zone and D zone draws, and PK/PP draws won or lost, I sometimes shake my head watching the continued KEY losses in important situations. The EYE test.

He is the key to any possible resurgence of this team and the thought of moving him is intriguing and quite possibly the smart move. The fact is.... another sub standard season for a 10.5 cap hit will probably kill any hopes of moving him ever in the future.

Does anybody even think that Hawks management has had any type of conversation with him about Diet, Exercise, Training, etc over this past offseason ?

- Hawkytalk




The only hope for 19 to become the impact player he used to be is for him to abandon the skinny/be fast mantra he is trying for. GO BACK to the weights and eating good protein. Go back to the war horse strong guy in the corners and set up your wingers. Go to the net and create havoc.

Just dont see it happening. I think his body is done. Too much wear and tear and there is prolly a concussion issue he is worried about. Hockey is an insanely tough sport like football. You see NFL guys retiring young so they can enjoy themselves without being in pain every day. Those guys take a beating like I cant imagine. Hockey players are as tough as they come. 19 just needs to be smart. If he cant go anymore.. If he has had too many concussions then just stop playing. Go coach. No shame in saying your body just cant do it anymore.
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Jun 10 @ 1:23 PM ET
Copp would be another good addition. I think it would cost more than a 3rd to acquire Lowry. My guess would be a prospect and a pick, both mid-level. Maybe a 3rd + Krys or Soderlund?
- DarthKane

The ideas and follow through that GM's use to both build and protect their players from expansion teams is going to be quite interesting to see play out.

Often a style successfully employed in plsyiffs leads to teams copying or using a version of it the following season. I can see how egas invested in players who were at a point in their career where they could be challenged to make the next step upeard in their growth and production. While this is always a visible process in an expansion year, the coaching and solid assebly of talent in Vegas helped produce career years from several players. Then, too, a youngster like Theodore was able to step up.

Keeping this in mind, might GM's take the gamble on the last forward or last fmsn protected and therefore be willing to trade good starting talent for the promise not to select such and such, or for an exchange of say #2 round choices. This way an expansion team can reel in a Perrin, a Neal before even drafting and the trade partner can replentish their prospect cupboard as a former prospect with some AHL and or NHL experience is getting the opportunity to be a starter?

And what about valued Thurs line guys like Rask or Copp - how might they be packaged. Maybe both for Neal? This is all about hypothetical moves and the sticking or restocking. I am not seriously suggesting those trades; I am merely attempting to show how the Vegas example could be amplified, improved and you know success Vegas had begets more success.

BTW
I do strongly expect there will be a few depth dmen from Chicago available. I expect that within Yeo or more years the entire Chicago defense will turn over. Because the prospects altogether represent as good or better the ability of the crappy group Stan hints most will return. And the addition of a deHahn or Moore is just a band aid so that there is a stronger NHL level group here for next season. Stan ensures better compete, but in an ever increasing equality of teams and a league wide desire or push for better, more physicality and skating, I do not expect much gain in the win column. In fact I seriously suggest egrehsrious coaching strategy and decisions by Q could blow up in his face.

So going into the official off season it is imperative for Stan to both add some of the missing ingredients necessary to win now but also to draft genuine talent, not all traded down picks.

Where does that leave Stan with decisions on current players and those whom he brings over?

They already have signed a plethora of prospects, enough to stock two bluelines in the AHL! So put Soderland on hold for a year. Rookies are exempt from NHL expansion. And what about Kampf, Edgsell or others to protect or trade. What kind of moves might Vegas having made and they and or others copy?

I strongly suspect just this right now: before expansion draft the future of Crawford, Toews, and possibly both Seabrook and Keith will be addressed.This holds true particularly if expansion is two years away

Just as a late thought - I have no idea who it the time following: Could McDonough have a rloe or influence upon owners /Bettman when exactly expansion occurs in light of McDonough who wants to keep marketing the face of the franchise as long we possible no matter it is partially upon one regressing player
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Jun 10 @ 1:52 PM ET
Hockey buzz fan mock draft had Bouchard available at 8.... i like that 😁
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