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SoftServe
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 01.19.2016

Jun 4 @ 10:08 PM ET
Here's to the Caps finishing Vegas in 5, so the off-season can start already 😃!
L_B_R
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.23.2014

Jun 4 @ 10:13 PM ET
Not trying to be a schmuck here, but isn’t that stat an extension of the plus-minus stat - which, as we have discussed before - if not a good measure of a player’s effectiveness?
- StLBravesFan

It's not effective - it's just a high level basic stat that is used as a starting point. It's only use is to start looking to see why a number is what it is and the context / situation of the goals or looking at GF% vs xGF%, see if the player is getting a fair shake. I was mostly surprised because Kempny has been pretty active offensively so I expected the number to be higher so it makes me curious.

I explain a little better in the reply below yours as well.

For ~fancier stats, Kempny always had decent to strong micro stats in transition and in-zone passing, though his NZ/own-zone passing could be a wild ride. He plays a high reward, high risk style which is something that works with a good defensive team and goalie behind him.
-Doh-
Location: VA
Joined: 10.05.2015

Jun 4 @ 10:14 PM ET
1. Kotkaniemi
2. Neal (Top Line Debrincat, AA, Kane. 2nd line Saad, Toews, Neal)
3. Hayden need. Jurco no. Hino, Duclair, Martinsen, DiDomenico if the price is right.
4. Forsberg
5. Ejdsell
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Jun 4 @ 10:14 PM ET
they have played smart, aggressive and throttled the knights the last 2 games...
- bogiedoc[/quote

Reality was only Winnipeg earlier had an opportunity to beat them The Jets just did not match the Knights intensity often enough. Arguably the better team on paper lost. That being said, the Knights can be beat. They do not have a lot of top end talent, some ...yes. But sooner or later someone who has elite talent scores + Vegas is going to get worn down with the right game plan against them. The Caps are beatable too, but this (if it is the Caps winning it) is a lot about what Vegas previously did earlier in playoffs but now is coming up short. Execution.

You can pick apart everything and bring up several points. But execution is BIG. And Fleury could not afford to let his team loose. Down 3-1 is tough. I don't think the Caps may have been the best team, but the way the cookie crumbles some teams fell and Washington persevered. Give them credit.

The Penguins for a fourth year? Not everyone was playing lights out for them. Tampa simply is not ready yet. Sort of a small team too. Their top two guns were not blazing much too. They have a rookie on defense and a lot of youth first, second year to be challenging. So the Caps arrived and low and behold mighty Vegas has issues which Washington has exploited. They are actually not unlike issues any team could face. But Washington steps up and Vegas fell back, just couldn't score.

Amazing the Cup winner models Orlov, Kempny, orpik. Kempny and Orlov are ok but have issues. Orpik blows. Each should be on a deep defense. Ha. But Vegas is down and superlative extra effort will not save their day
Mr Ricochet
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Joliet, IL
Joined: 04.19.2009

Jun 4 @ 10:38 PM ET
You and I know that you can pull a fancy stat out of your arse to make literally ANY argument seem credible (see Tanner, James). Kempny is playing Top 4 and paired with their #1Dman and the Caps are 4.5 periods from
A Cup Championship. You cannot fault Bowman for cutting his losses on both Daley and Kempny, but any way you slice it, the entire defense core was a failure by mgmt from Bowman down to Ulf, and especially Q.

- EnzoD


Agreed, but LBR goes deeeeeep inside the numbers, scrubs those numbers with more numbers and does it again something I don't and am not even capable of. That's why I ask her.

But yea man all I see of Kempny is what I've posted 100 times fancy stats be damned, good or bad. I'm a sucker for guys with +size and can skate. Add the player has a few hundred pro games, can play physical and makes 900k his shortcomings are not only understood and expected but are accepted while in cap hell.

Helluva job by the scouts to identify him, StanBow to acquire him and turn it into a 3rd rd pick. ...... The organIzation moves on and I see no reason we won't see more more cutting our losses on Kempny, Daley, Johns, Denault types as long as Q and StanBow are in their current positions.

I post this from time to time for fans to look at. Complete history of trades made by every NHL team. Warning though you may waste a couple hours looking at this: http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/team_list
TJYTJY
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.23.2017

Jun 4 @ 10:40 PM ET
I read that some Bookies were offering buyouts of 100-1 before the series and I wonder how many passed on that...it looks like once again...the House always wins.
- EnzoD



Anyone who has this ticket should be hedging, especially the last two series. It would be free money.
hocktock
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Over by dere.
Joined: 07.15.2015

Jun 4 @ 10:40 PM ET
Well alrighty then.
Mr Ricochet
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Joliet, IL
Joined: 04.19.2009

Jun 4 @ 10:47 PM ET
It's not effective - it's just a high level basic stat that is used as a starting point. It's only use is to start looking to see why a number is what it is and the context / situation of the goals or looking at GF% vs xGF%, see if the player is getting a fair shake. I was mostly surprised because Kempny has been pretty active offensively so I expected the number to be higher so it makes me curious.

I explain a little better in the reply below yours as well.

For ~fancier stats, Kempny always had decent to strong micro stats in transition and in-zone passing, though his NZ/own-zone passing could be a wild ride. He plays a high reward, high risk style which is something that works with a good defensive team and goalie behind him.

- L_B_R


Nicely done and said, LBR!! But again any stat, especially fancy ones, have to be taken in context of positional strength, team need and cap consequences. In Kempny's context at 900k he's a fit but Daley IIRC was making 3 mil per skating 3rd pair and in that context he's not a fit.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Jun 4 @ 10:48 PM ET
Ya but what’s Kempny’s Corsi this game? Lol
L_B_R
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.23.2014

Jun 4 @ 10:52 PM ET
Agreed, but LBR goes deeeeeep inside the numbers, scrubs those numbers with more numbers and does it again something I don't and am not even capable of. That's why I ask her.

But yea man all I see of Kempny is what I've posted 100 times fancy stats be damned, good or bad. I'm a sucker for guys with +size and can skate. Add the player has a few hundred pro games, can play physical and makes 900k his shortcomings are not only understood and expected but are accepted while in cap hell.

Helluva job by the scouts to identify him, StanBow to acquire him and turn it into a 3rd rd pick. ...... The organIzation moves on and I see no reason we won't see more more cutting our losses on Kempny, Daley, Johns, Denault types as long as Q and StanBow are in their current positions.

I post this from time to time for fans to look at. Complete history of trades made by every NHL team. Warning though you may waste a couple hours looking at this:

- Mr Ricochet

Tbf in that particular comment Enzo was replying to, I did throw out a high level stat without context and did not do my due diligence to explore it in depth beside a semi-throw away manner.
Mr Ricochet
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Joliet, IL
Joined: 04.19.2009

Jun 4 @ 10:53 PM ET
That was the worst miss of an open net I've ever seen...
- SimpleJack


If the Caps win the cup that open net miss may be thought to be the turning point. Vegas controlling play and go down 3-zip. Neal buries that who knows what happens, at the very least the complexion of the game changes.
Mr Ricochet
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Joliet, IL
Joined: 04.19.2009

Jun 4 @ 10:54 PM ET
Ya but what’s Kempny’s Corsi this game? Lol
- EnzoD


He didn't miss on that one!! Nice play to take the open ice that was given. Atta boy Kempny!!
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Jun 4 @ 10:58 PM ET
Tbf in that particular comment Enzo was replying to, I did throw out a high level stat without context and did not do my due diligence to explore it in depth beside a semi-throw away manner.
- L_B_R



LBR I may not be a fancy stat advocate, but I do feel it has a place in the game. I value the eye test of those who have played and coached over fancy stats but your input is great for the blog and discussion.

I think you’re trying to sugar coat another wretched job of player managing by Q by trying to diminish Kempny. Yes it’s a team game, but there’s no fancy stat to justify the fact that Kempny couldn’t crack the Top 6 of the Last Place Hawks but has been etched in stone as the #4 D with the (looking like) Cup Champs. That just doesn’t make any sense. Q and his entire staff are to blame again. Same with Daley.
hocktock
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Over by dere.
Joined: 07.15.2015

Jun 4 @ 11:01 PM ET
3 more wins.

Vegas or bust.
Mr Ricochet
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Joliet, IL
Joined: 04.19.2009

Jun 4 @ 11:01 PM ET
The only real issue with Kotkaniemi is that while he's listed as a center, he actually played wing in Finland and only center at international events. It's a little bit of a gamble if a center is absolutely what you want from this draft. Worth the risk if he's the best available forward and the team doesn't want to wait for the d-men.
- L_B_R


I guess he was moved to center at the U-18 WJC and flourished. But as I know it he played in the top Finnish pro league, Liiga, as a 17 yr old last yr and played wing. My question is did he play center in jrs and moved to wing as a 17 yr old rookie in a pro league? ...... I'd add everything I read about the kid is he killed at the dot.
bogiedoc
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: VA
Joined: 09.27.2011

Jun 4 @ 11:03 PM ET
MAF and the knights are turning into



bogiedoc
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: VA
Joined: 09.27.2011

Jun 4 @ 11:05 PM ET
If the Caps win the cup that open net miss may be thought to be the turning point. Vegas controlling play and go down 3-zip. Neal buries that who knows what happens, at the very least the complexion of the game changes.
- Mr Ricochet


nope here is the turning point play...


bogiedoc
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: VA
Joined: 09.27.2011

Jun 4 @ 11:07 PM ET
ya get outplayed thoroughly for 2 games and the knights decide to go jagbag the last 5 minutes...part of the "game" I can't stand...

all of a sudden get tough with cheap shots...

caps will end this in 5...
KMFDMLight
Joined: 06.22.2016

Jun 4 @ 11:08 PM ET
1. “With our 1st selection in the NHL Entry Draft, the Chicago Blackhawks are proud to select OLIVER WAHLSTROM"
2. My #1 UFA target this off-season is HJOHN TAVARES (Other deals will be necessary first)
3. The current Hawks RFA we need to sign last (or not at all) is Tomas Jurco
4. The Blackhawks backup goalie in October will be Anton Khudobin
5. The most surprising Blackhawks player that makes the team for opening night is Dominik Kahun
Mr Ricochet
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Joliet, IL
Joined: 04.19.2009

Jun 4 @ 11:08 PM ET
Thought this was a very complete analysis of Kotkaniemi: https://www.defendingbigd...eno-tkachuk-dobson-zadina
GlennL
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Grayslake, IL
Joined: 03.02.2016

Jun 4 @ 11:10 PM ET
ya get outplayed thoroughly for 2 games and the knights decide to go jagbag the last 5 minutes...part of the "game" I can't stand...

all of a sudden get tough with cheap shots...

caps will end this in 5...

- bogiedoc

Hope Caps beat them but good!
kwolf68
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Mt. Lebanon, PA
Joined: 12.18.2010

Jun 4 @ 11:10 PM ET
ya get outplayed thoroughly for 2 games and the knights decide to go jagbag the last 5 minutes...part of the "game" I can't stand...

all of a sudden get tough with cheap shots...

caps will end this in 5...

- bogiedoc



Vegas embarrassed themselves tonight. I sick of them and hope the Caps send that frog back to the mud puddle.
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Jun 4 @ 11:54 PM ET
Vegas embarrassed themselves tonight. I sick of them and hope the Caps send that frog back to the mud puddle.
- kwolf68


It makes sense inevitably that is the productive factory producing parts in the Vegas workoholic blueprint to reality would not always keep winning.

I mean that is one way to look at this efficient Vegas team - as a factory efficient operation that kept getting good output or results with hardly a hiccup throughout the season and to the final round of the playoffs.

Thoroughly outplayed last two games and the execution was from Washington. With hockey it is all players performing, not machines even if some machinery is human operated. The extraordinary Knights almost pulled it off, to win The Holy Grail! I am not going to say with a bit more rest near season end, with a break here or there - like the empty net where Neal could not deposit the biscuit - or anything would have turned the tide in this series.

The Vegas team is set for improvement due to shrewd management in their creation and maiden voyage. Somehow I would not be surprised at not quite as good a regular season in year two, but a sophomoric campaign could be remarkable should they experience another deep playoff run.

Although with expansion not far away even the latest expansion team will have to loose a significant part. The other Subben, the one you don't hate

Boy did I have it wrong, thinking players would be too focused on the Vegas glitter and not hockey.
AusHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Melbourne
Joined: 11.25.2015

Jun 5 @ 12:02 AM ET
...or did the bookies say, "vegas better not win. We ain't payin 500 to 1."

Vegas or bust.

- hocktock


Tho bookies might've said that, but PowerEnforcer and his tin foil hat said that Vegas was going to win because the League wanted them too.

Who wins this fight? The NHL or the Vegas Bookies??
pdx2ord
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Portland, OR
Joined: 09.02.2015

Jun 5 @ 12:03 AM ET
Lots of our guys, including Kane and Saad, slated to play in a new Chicago-area summer pro hockey league. Games to be held at Hawks practice facility.

Rosters here: https://www.chicagoprohockeyleague.com/teams

Some current and ex-Hawks/Hogs

Team 1: Hinostroza, Jokiharju, Louis, Oesterle
Team 2: DeBrincat, Kane
Team 3: Schmaltz
Team 4: Bollig, Hartman, Pirri, Saad, Wingels

Wish I'd seen Crawford on the list as it seems a great way to get back to form if he's indeed OK. NGL, would have liked to see Toews name there, too.
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