More on Kotkaniemi...Imo I think he's the pick guys. I just love that he is a goal-scorer, a playmaker, a powerplay quarterback and a penalty killer that can perform in “all situations.” Has size at 6'2, 190 lbs at 17 years old with room to fill out even more.

https://www.wingingitinmo...rofile-jesperi-kotkaniemi

That was the worst miss of an open net I've ever seen...

That was the worst miss of an open net I've ever seen...
- SimpleJack

Really unbelievable!

More on Kotkaniemi...Imo I think he's the pick guys. I just love that he is a goal-scorer, a playmaker, a powerplay quarterback and a penalty killer that can perform in “all situations.” Has size at 6'2, 190 lbs at 17 years old with room to fill out even more.


- SoftServe

The only real issue with Kotkaniemi is that while he's listed as a center, he actually played wing in Finland and only center at international events. It's a little bit of a gamble if a center is absolutely what you want from this draft. Worth the risk if he's the best available forward and the team doesn't want to wait for the d-men.

They may lose this trade , depends on the return for the 3rd . Also what Kempny signs for and where .HAWKS had to make the deal now as Kempny was not coming back as long as Q Was here and Q Ruined his value by wrongly benching him for multiple games in a row //
- oldduffman

Absolutely 100% correct. Kempny was not going to sign here because of Quenneville. Just another good hockey player that this organization( Q) failed to develop. Sure he is a 4, 5, or 6 dman....but wouldn't we be better off with him than we've got ??? Oesterle, Rutta, Gust,....please !!
More highly questionable decision making by management......as usual.

Let's pump the brakes a little with all the ridiculous talk about Kempny, Daley, etc.

In all reality Kempny is a 3rd pairing defenseman. Yeah, the Caps are in the cup, and he has been playing OK, but the reality is that he is getting sheltered minutes and he is far from the reason that the Caps are where they are. In similar fashion, Daley wasn't some revelation to the Pens that put them over the top on their cup that season.

Both Daley and Kempny are playing in systems that are completely different than what was asked of them in Chicago. They both showed the same tendencies and mistakes they did in Chicago with their new clubs, but had different roles and expectations placed upon them. The Blackhawks with either of them on the team getting regular minutes was not going to yield a much different outcome than what there was.

Close inspection of the play of Kempny, Daley, Leddy and some of the other traded d-men yields the same conclusion......they aren't great in their own end. I know that Savvyone still pines for Leddy, but reality shows that he is still not a great defender. On a decent defensive team, he is at best a #4. Leddy was young when he was with the Hawks, and there was hope he could develop into a better player in his own end, but he really hasn't. Kempny's upside at 27 years old is probably limited (though the same could be said about Rutta), but you hope maybe Forsling, Murphy and some of the other younger d-men still have higher ceilings.

Like others have said over and over, Kempny was not going to re-sign with the Hawks, so getting a 3rd rounder for him was a steal, but because the Caps have come this far lets not make it seem like all of a sudden the Hawks traded away the next coming of....insert your 1st pairing defense man name here......
- TheTrob

That's kind of the point though. Two other coaches in a Cup final found a use for guys that Q had no use for. And one was a significant contributor while the other clearly doesn't suck.

Oesterle getting time over Murphy or Kempny is beyond preposterous no matter how you cut it.

how many times do you see this...

knights come out with a big push...can't buy a bounce, hit 2 posts and then the caps get a few bounces and its 3 zip...

con smythe MAF is melting away...here comes ovie

That's kind of the point though. Two other coaches in a Cup final found a use for guys that Q had no use for. And one was a significant contributor while the other clearly doesn't suck.

Oesterle getting time over Murphy or Kempny is beyond preposterous no matter how you cut it.
- fattybeef

This is the context I'm ok with moving a Kempny type. As an organIzation we don't think this 27 yr old, +skater, size, stout, shot at 900k is a fit. So we know we ain't doing jack if we make the playoffs so we're gonna give an Oesterle/Gus type that valuable NHL ice time.

how many times do you see this...

knights come out with a big push...can't buy a bounce, hit 2 posts and then the caps get a few bounces and its 3 zip...

con smythe MAF is melting away...here comes ovie
- bogiedoc

Or DS-P.

He’s really played well, I think - keeps finding and making plays.

Agreed, getting a 3rd wasn't a steal but it was fair value at least. Look at the other d-men traded at or around the TDL: Ian Cole for 2020 3rd + b/c-level prospect, Joe Morrow for a 2018 4th, Brandon Davidson for a 2019 3rd, Nick Holden for 2018 3rd + c-level prospect, and Mike Reilly for a 2019 5th.

I would have preferred Kempny to work out for the Hawks, but however it happened, getting fair market value for a player that wasn't going to resign (he admits he was planning to go back to Europe) is fine.

And for all the praise Kempny is getting, he has a sub 50% GF% in the playoffs, last among Caps d-men. He had some major mistakes that have cost them games - those errors in games 3/4 against the Lightning are part of why that round even went 7.
- L_B_R

And where did the Hawks end in league possession ranking? Last I remember they were near the top with Carolina....... Despite Kempny being a bum his coach has him paired with the top points Dman in the league, up 2 games to 1 in the Finals. Would you agree the Caps organIzation are lucky Trotz ignored the fancy stats concerning Kempny?

And where did the Hawks end in league possession ranking? Last I remember they were near the top with Carolina....... Despite Kempny being a bum his coach has him paired with the top points Dman in the league, up 2 games to 1 in the Finals. Would you agree the Caps organIzation are lucky Trotz ignored the fancy stats concerning Kempny?
- Mr Ricochet

What stat were they ignoring? Kempny was fine in terms of puck possession. The on ice stats for Kempny in Chicago this year were better than he looked, in large part because the goalies had a 0.947% when he was on the ice.

The only real issue with Kotkaniemi is that while he's listed as a center, he actually played wing in Finland and only center at international events. It's a little bit of a gamble if a center is absolutely what you want from this draft. Worth the risk if he's the best available forward and the team doesn't want to wait for the d-men.
- L_B_R

If Wahlstrom is still there at 8.. Wahlstrom or Kotkaniemi as best available forward?

Destiny may be calling.

Vegas or bust.

And where did the Hawks end in league possession ranking? Last I remember they were near the top with Carolina....... Despite Kempny being a bum his coach has him paired with the top points Dman in the league, up 2 games to 1 in the Finals. Would you agree the Caps organIzation are lucky Trotz ignored the fancy stats concerning Kempny?
- Mr Ricochet

You and I know that you can pull a fancy stat out of your arse to make literally ANY argument seem credible (see Tanner, James). Kempny is playing Top 4 and paired with their #1Dman and the Caps are 4.5 periods from
A Cup Championship. You cannot fault Bowman for cutting his losses on both Daley and Kempny, but any way you slice it, the entire defense core was a failure by mgmt from Bowman down to Ulf, and especially Q.

CAPS

CAPS
- EnzoD

they have played smart, aggressive and throttled the knights the last 2 games...

Destiny may be calling.

Vegas or bust.
- hocktock

getting closer to bust...

Destiny may be calling.

Vegas or bust.
- hocktock

...or did the bookies say, "vegas better not win. We ain't payin 500 to 1."

Vegas or bust.

...or did the bookies say, "vegas better not win. We ain't payin 500 to 1."

Vegas or bust.
- hocktock

I read that some Bookies were offering buyouts of 100-1 before the series and I wonder how many passed on that...it looks like once again...the House always wins.

You and I know that you can pull a fancy stat out of your arse to make literally ANY argument seem credible (see Tanner, James). Kempny is playing Top 4 and paired with their #1Dman and the Caps are 4.5 periods from
A Cup Championship. You cannot fault Bowman for cutting his losses on both Daley and Kempny, but any way you slice it, the entire defense core was a failure by mgmt from Bowman down to Ulf, and especially Q.
- EnzoD

While it is definitely true stats can be misused, they' only make an argument "credible" in those situations if you don't know anything about stats - which enough people here obvs do so see that Tanner is pretty much a hack and thus it's easy to see through his stuff.

Kempny is playing well but he is being sheltered in the OZ and was getting the same TOI as Orpik for the most part before Orpik was injured. The reason Kempny can be top 4 is because 1) the Caps top 3 are excellent, 2) their forward core is defensively reliable, and 3) Holtby is playing well. I've said this before, but I don't think Q misused Kempny so much as Kempny just wasn't the right fit for the team right now being so young and in transition - he would have been totally fine with 2010/2013-15 teams imo.

FWIW, Eklund reporting the Isles are interested in moving both of their #1 picks for a goalie. Would you trade Crawford for the two #1's?
- AEL_Fox

In a heartbeat. But they would noy trade anyone for him yet. He has to prove he is back, and there are questions to be asked. The answers must be acceptable

...or did the bookies say, "vegas better not win. We ain't payin 500 to 1."

Vegas or bust.
- hocktock

Whoever wins, over time, the house does.

Since they set odds to even out bets - if VGK wins, and they pay out 500-1 - doesn’t that mean they won on all the short-odds bets on Pittsburgh, TBL, Nashville, Caps...?

That's kind of the point though. Two other coaches in a Cup final found a use for guys that Q had no use for. And one was a significant contributor while the other clearly doesn't suck.

Oesterle getting time over Murphy or Kempny is beyond preposterous no matter how you cut it.
- fattybeef

Just bookmark this as an explanation because some people still don't see things exactly how you portray. I have no one in mind, but I think some readers do not want to see things the way you do

Agreed, getting a 3rd wasn't a steal but it was fair value at least. Look at the other d-men traded at or around the TDL: Ian Cole for 2020 3rd + b/c-level prospect, Joe Morrow for a 2018 4th, Brandon Davidson for a 2019 3rd, Nick Holden for 2018 3rd + c-level prospect, and Mike Reilly for a 2019 5th.

I would have preferred Kempny to work out for the Hawks, but however it happened, getting fair market value for a player that wasn't going to resign (he admits he was planning to go back to Europe) is fine.

And for all the praise Kempny is getting, he has a sub 50% GF% in the playoffs, last among Caps d-men. He had some major mistakes that have cost them games - those errors in games 3/4 against the Lightning are part of why that round even went 7.
- L_B_R

Not trying to be a schmuck here, but isn’t that stat an extension of the plus-minus stat - which, as we have discussed before - if not a good measure of a player’s effectiveness?

And where did the Hawks end in league possession ranking? Last I remember they were near the top with Carolina....... Despite Kempny being a bum his coach has him paired with the top points Dman in the league, up 2 games to 1 in the Finals. Would you agree the Caps organIzation are lucky Trotz ignored the fancy stats concerning Kempny?
- Mr Ricochet

I do not think anyone thinks Kempny was a bum - just that he did not work out for the Hawks. Also, I'm not sure who else the Caps would have with Carlson - their other options are Orpik, who they have playing a more defensive but lower 5v5 TOI role, or a rookie. I do not think Carlson is carrying Kempny by any means, but it certainly helps - guys like Rundblad and Oesterle looked pretty good alongside Keith at points too.

Also, Trotz isn't ignoring fancy stats - GF% isn't fancy, it's super basic and tell you nothing advanced about how a player or teams performs to get that %. It's just high level, a starting point, and then you have to dig deeper. But Trotz isn't ignoring the errors either - in the games in which Kempny has a turnover leading to a major goal, Kempny's TOI is lower, such as vs Lightning less than 17 min in game 3 and less than 14 in game 4. I only brought up GF% in the first place because for a guy who starts more in the OZ than any other d-man, and with a goalie putting up strong numbers, it's a bit weird that it is sub 50%. Based on the eye test, some of that low number is due to his own mistakes, but I'd have to track the games in full before I'd say that concretely.