Ryan Wilson: Getting our Phil of drama Getting our Phil of drama

Luck-based? Tanner, is that you?

I don't know if I could disagree more on a blog RW has written than this one.

If it was that easy to find a Mike Sullivan they would have found him before Bylsma.

Luck-based? Tanner, is that you?

I don't know if I could disagree more on a blog RW has written than this one.

If it was that easy to find a Mike Sullivan they would have found him before Bylsma.
- Rinosaur

Pens got lucky last year. They won and I'm happy about it, but they got lucky.

"The only problem with winning championships is that it can cloud the ability to be critical. Many give a free pass for an arbitrary amount of time after championships."

This is the most important part of this entire blog.

Pens got lucky last year. They won and I'm happy about it, but they got lucky.

"The only problem with winning championships is that it can cloud the ability to be critical. Many give a free pass for an arbitrary amount of time after championships."

This is the most important part of this entire blog.
- j.boyd919

You don't luck out for four rounds of hockey.

Luck-based? Tanner, is that you?

I don't know if I could disagree more on a blog RW has written than this one.

If it was that easy to find a Mike Sullivan they would have found him before Bylsma.
- Rinosaur

Random variance is a real thing.

You don't luck out for four rounds of hockey.
- Rinosaur

25 games is a pretty small time frame.

Remember even Andrew Hammond posted a 1.79 GAA and a .941 SV% over a 24 game stretch.

That leaves us with Florida, Carolina, Islanders, Rangers, Detroit, Montreal, Ottawa, and Buffalo. How many of those teams are on Phil’s eight team list?

It might be an out-dated way of looking at things, but if the Pens were to trade Kessel (which I highly doubt), my guess it wouldn't be in the division, so I would eliminate Carolina, NYI and NYR.

FLA, DET, BUF, OTT and MTL?

I would cross off MTL if Kessel doesn't want to deal with media B.S.

Based on his previous list, I just don't see the other teams being a place he'd want to go.

Ryan Wilson: Getting our Phil of drama
Getting our Phil of drama
- Ryan_Wilson

LOL!

25 games is a pretty small time frame.

Remember even Andrew Hammond posted a 1.79 GAA and a .941 SV% over a 24 game stretch.
- Feds91Stammer

Right. Goaltenders going on a hot streak at the right time or simply playing well is not luck. Fleury or Murray stealing a series is simply a player of their respective team playing great.

I find we treat goalies different. Skaters playing out of this world is "carrying their team to vicotry," but a goalie stealing the show is lucky?

The other side is that even if you get the goaltending, you still need to score. You don't keep outscoring teams because you're lucky. We've witnessed plenty of times this year that a goalie can come up big, but if the team doesn't deliver, you lose.

You don't luck out for four rounds of hockey.
- Rinosaur

Sure do.

Sure do.
- j.boyd919

Gonna have to agree to disagree with you there.

Gonna have to agree to disagree with you there.
- Rinosaur

Don't get me wrong... There is a huge difference between the Pens 16-17 cup team and the Pens 17-18 cup team; the latter was not as good or dominant.

The phrase people are probably annoyed by at this point is, "finding ways to win." You don't just find ways to win by luck IMO.

FWIW, I think that everyone in here is both wrong and very sexy.

Sully is infinitely more easy to replace than Kessel.

I dont think Sully is a good coach. How much coaching are you really going to do with 87, 71, 58, 81 etc.....He gave MAF the shortest leash last year, I dont think the players like him much.

Unless it was a Kessel for Faulk trade, Im not sure it makes sense. Unless he really wants out.

I would look to move Sheary+ for someone like Domi.

To me trading Kessel is a trade you can't win unless there is a series of moves after where other big players are moved.

If the Pens were simply looking to bulk up and high picks and prospects? Yeah, they could do well with a Kessel trade.

EDIT:

I can't see any situation where you get a winger in return for Kessel that is similar as far as pedigree. You'd have to move him for a different position then move different parts to replace him.

FWIW, I think that everyone in here is both wrong and very sexy.
- jmatchett383

To me trading Kessel is a trade you can't win unless there is a series of moves after where other big players are moved.

If the Pens were simply looking to bulk up and high picks and prospects? Yeah, they could do well with a Kessel trade.
- Rinosaur

Kessel, Sprong, and a 1st for Larkin and Nyquist

Kessel, Sprong, and a 1st for Larkin and Nyquist
- Feds91Stammer

I don't even think DET is a starter for Kessel's list.

Someone posted his last list in the other thread and it was all contenders.

Don't get me wrong... There is a huge difference between the Pens 16-17 cup team and the Pens 17-18 cup team; the latter was not as good or dominant.

The phrase people are probably annoyed by at this point is, "finding ways to win." You don't just find ways to win by luck IMO.
- Rinosaur

The Pens definitely buried their chances when they came last year and I believe they came much less often than the other teams.

Their goalies stood on their head, particularly Fluery in WSH and Murray in NSH.

I believe there were many games where they were outplayed and probably shouldn't have been victorious.

That is why I believe they got lucky.

I can appreciate the fact that they won, enjoy it, and understand why they won, but I can also have the opinion that I never want to see a team play/execute the way that they did because I don't believe the way that they played would lead to success more times than not. It did when it mattered last year, but if they iced that same team and played the same way in say... 10 playoffs, I can't see that team being success over 50% of the time. I'd probably say like.. 1 or 2 out of 10 playoffs that would work.

I guess the Pens luck last year came from outstanding goal tending...they didnt get a lot of fluky goals, just a pile of very opportunistic timely ones, but they were heavily outplayed 5 on 5 in a lot of games outside the Sens series. So I guess winning games that the other team heavily out possesses the puck over you and out shots you constitutes luck.

Sully is infinitely more easy to replace than Kessel.
- sammy87

It's so easy to make statements like this when you have a Sullivan-level coach on your team than when you don't.

If it was that easy, every team in the league would have a good coach.

To me trading Kessel is a trade you can't win unless there is a series of moves after where other big players are moved.

If the Pens were simply looking to bulk up and high picks and prospects? Yeah, they could do well with a Kessel trade.
- Rinosaur

The Penguins window to win is now and about the next 3 years. As good as Guentzel et. al are/will be, this team ultimately will go as far as Crosby and Malkin combined with goaltending will take them. That being said, trading Phil Kessel most likely makes them worse in the short-term, which matches their window. Trading him weakens your shot of winning another championship with this current group.

The only way I would trade Kessel would be by including more pieces to upgrade the position (i.e. Blake Wheeler) or to get a player with similar production who is younger (i.e. Pastrnak). Since neither of these scenarios are likely to play out, trading Kessel at this point seems like a bad idea.

I don't even think DET is a starter for Kessel's list.

Someone posted his last list in the other thread and it was all contenders.
- Rinosaur

I wouldn't do that trade anyways

I guess the Pens luck last year came from outstanding goal tending...they didnt get a lot of fluky goals, just a pile of very opportunistic timely ones, but they were heavily outplayed 5 on 5 in a lot of games outside the Sens series. So I guess winning games that the other team heavily out possesses the puck over you and out shots you constitutes luck.
- MattStrat

This is my biggest issue here...

Why is it when your star players step up people consider it the star players coming through and carrying the team, but good goaltending is luck? Why is there a distinction there?

Plus, as you said, they were opportunistic. It's not that easy to be opportunistic was we witnessed this year. Whatever anyone thinks of Murray, he kept the Pens in plenty of games this year, but they just couldn't score.

You can't win a game simply on goaltending. The rest of the team has to do their part.