the bolland for hossa swap seems to benefit both teams. i think the plus going to the yotes could be easily worked out.

fyi, datsyuk's salary to the yotes on that deal was nil; he retired. they were just stuck with the caphit on the +35 deal.
- Tumbleweed


Ahhh... great catch. Thanks Tumbleweed.
JLowe

I'm confused. I thought that the "retirement" is what triggered the sap penalty, and the cap penalty stays with the cliub that got the benefit despite a trade. I thought the key was the player couldn't retire, hence Hossa "not playing hockey any more" vs retiring.

Based on my understanding, Datsyuk formal retirement would trigger cap penalty for Detroit, no matter whether they traded him or not. But I looked up Datsyuk, and I see a youtube of his "retirement" announcement.

scratching my head.
- Cmonalready

Cap recapture penalties only apply to contracts signed under the old CBA that were front loaded / backdiving. If the player is traded, the original team still gets hit with the recapture penalty because they're the ones who benefitted.

However, Datsyuk's contract was signed under the new CBA, so that punishment did not apply to him. He could be traded and the worry of the cap hit goes to the new team. The confusion comes in because Datsyuk signed a 35+ contract and a 35+ contract player's cap hit counts against the teams cap hit regardless of whether, or where, the player is active, and they cannot be bought out. So even though Datsyuk retired, his cap hit applies to a team anyway, so the Wings had to move his contract (and the receiving team did not have to pay a salary) to clear cap space.

So old CBA contract = recapture penalties. New CBA = no recapture penalties but weird rules that apply to different level of contracts.

Tom Wilson is a total poser...anyone see the dive he took when Reaves tickled him with a glove? Don't ever promote that chump again....

he takes advantage of dirty hits, smaller players....but when a big boy come to dance he turtles like a turd. Tom Wilson is absolute trash. NEVER speak about him being a part of the Hawks.

Wilson is a total joke, no better than Matt Cooke level losers

Tom Wilson is a total poser...anyone see the dive he took when Reaves tickled him with a glove? Don't ever promote that chump again....

he takes advantage of dirty hits, smaller players....but when a big boy come to dance he turtles like a turd. Tom Wilson is absolute trash. NEVER speak about him being a part of the Hawks.

Wilson is a total joke, no better than Matt Cooke level losers
- kwolf68

Yeah I was agitated watching that play but you must admit it was a savvy dive as it drew a penalty/Powerplay for his team....you’d love him on the Hawks and you know it deep down. Hits, goes to the net, has some puck skill, and can play with top line talents effectively. Doesn’t matter, it’s quite unlikely Washington will trade him as he is an extremely valuable TOP LINE power winger for the Eastern Conference Champs.

Kempny didn't look good enough to win a numbers game against Rutta and Forsling who looked much better early on, Franson's booming shot, the pressure of Murphy being Hammer tradable ready and the big two core guys who are still better than all of the others, period!

And this is real: when Forsling started to loose confidence, he was angered and hurt, and begged to stay and work things through.

There was another soldier, Oesterle, who quietly waited, and Kempny had his agents say he wasn't interested in coming back to sit (understandable), so they goy what I thought was MORE than they ever could for him, a 3rd rounder.

So you like how Kempny is playing?
Clear core money and sign John Carlson, because that is where the strength lies...
- wiz1901

Never thought even for a second that Rutta and Forsling slotted ahead of Kempny as neither had any idea what to do in the D end. Having said this Kempny was traded because Q left no alternative. Kempny has done something right in helping Caps get to the Final by shutting out the Lightning for 8 periods straight.

Kempny didn't look good enough to win a numbers game against Rutta and Forsling who looked much better early on, Franson's booming shot, the pressure of Murphy being Hammer tradable ready and the big two core guys who are still better than all of the others, period!

And this is real: when Forsling started to loose confidence, he was angered and hurt, and begged to stay and work things through.

There was another soldier, Oesterle, who quietly waited, and Kempny had his agents say he wasn't interested in coming back to sit (understandable), so they goy what I thought was MORE than they ever could for him, a 3rd rounder.

So you like how Kempny is playing?
Clear core money and sign John Carlson, because that is where the strength lies...
- wiz1901

Also the Oilers who always seem to need D-Men did not want Oesterle. He did not get better by joining the Hawks. Whether he was a good quiet soldier didn’t change this.

Also the Oilers who always seem to need D-Men did not want Oesterle. He did not get better by joining the Hawks. Whether he was a good quiet soldier didn’t change this.
- Z3Hawk

I'd like to see them work with Oesterle a bit more on the defensive side of the game. I thought he showed more mobility initially. But they have plenty of guys not unlike him to choose from.

Any thought that the team just absorb the hit until the new CBA, continuing to "move" (dump) veteran contracts for youth + picks as the rebuild continues?

Also Justin, any word if there will be unexpected moves with cost-controlled players that were not a cultural fit with the Hawks, a la Ryan Hartman?

Maybe we can go Cristobal Huet route of sending him to a Swiss team for financial relief???

Any thought that the team just absorb the hit until the new CBA, continuing to "move" (dump) veteran contracts for youth + picks as the rebuild continues?

Also Justin, any word if there will be unexpected moves with cost-controlled players that were not a cultural fit with the Hawks, a la Ryan Hartman?
- phantasmo

I'm thinking there could be unexpected moves again this year, but they would be business/cap related vs. cultural IMO.

They are looking to get younger and faster, which has been obvious with the trend by inserting guys like Hinostroza, Sikura, Duclair, Gustafsson.

The only thing I've been hearing for a while now is that they would love to continue to acquire players with a ton of character.

At a much lesser level, but look no further than their latest signing, Jacob Nilsson.

"I think every situation he's in, he wants to win, whether that's a one-on-one drill in practice or it's a playoff game," said Jeremy Colliton. "He's not happy if it doesn't go his way. He puts high demands on himself and I think that's part of what makes him tick."

Cap recapture penalties only apply to contracts signed under the old CBA that were front loaded / backdiving. If the player is traded, the original team still gets hit with the recapture penalty because they're the ones who benefitted.

However, Datsyuk's contract was signed under the new CBA, so that punishment did not apply to him. He could be traded and the worry of the cap hit goes to the new team. The confusion comes in because Datsyuk signed a 35+ contract and a 35+ contract player's cap hit counts against the teams cap hit regardless of whether, or where, the player is active, and they cannot be bought out. So even though Datsyuk retired, his cap hit applies to a team anyway, so the Wings had to move his contract (and the receiving team did not have to pay a salary) to clear cap space.

So old CBA contract = recapture penalties. New CBA = no recapture penalties but weird rules that apply to different level of contracts.
- L_B_R

Thanks for further clarification LBR! And keep on posting, please!

All of those trades are meh. Giving up the best LHD prospect for Pageau to get rid of Hossa's contract ? Pageau might be useful but he definitely isn't worth Forsling. Not to mention helping out Melnyk save some money while reaching the cap floor?
Hard pass.
- TTtime

These trades cannot be looked at in a vacuum.

Moving Hossa's contract goes well beyond the trade itself, but could give the Hawks a shot a "re-tooling" this team for success as soon as this upcoming year.

For example purposes:

Hossa stays = Hawks sign Ian Cole + Scott Upshall

Hossa is moved with no/limited salary coming back = Hawks sign Calvin de Haan, Paul Stastny and Tommy Wingels.


If you can move Hossa, the Hawks would have more flexibility to off UFA(s) more term because they wouldn't have to dance around the Hossa LTIR situation.

Cap recapture penalties only apply to contracts signed under the old CBA that were front loaded / backdiving. If the player is traded, the original team still gets hit with the recapture penalty because they're the ones who benefitted.

However, Datsyuk's contract was signed under the new CBA, so that punishment did not apply to him. He could be traded and the worry of the cap hit goes to the new team. The confusion comes in because Datsyuk signed a 35+ contract and a 35+ contract player's cap hit counts against the teams cap hit regardless of whether, or where, the player is active, and they cannot be bought out. So even though Datsyuk retired, his cap hit applies to a team anyway, so the Wings had to move his contract (and the receiving team did not have to pay a salary) to clear cap space.

So old CBA contract = recapture penalties. New CBA = no recapture penalties but weird rules that apply to different level of contracts.
- L_B_R

Thank you, sir! Helpful.

Thank you, Ms.! Helpful.
- Cmonalready

Fixed

Never thought even for a second that Rutta and Forsling slotted ahead of Kempny as neither had any idea what to do in the D end. Having said this Kempny was traded because Q left no alternative. Kempny has done something right in helping Caps get to the Final by shutting out the Lightning for 8 periods straight.
- Z3Hawk

Kempny was alright in his own end, it's the mistakes in transition that cost him in playing time (though he did get a majority of 50 games last season playing top 4). Since the Caps 1) shelter him in the OZ a lot, 2) play a different transition scheme, 3) have a forward core that is better defensively and goalie who is not a backup, his mistakes are less impactful in general. Niskanen-Orlov playing the top pair, getting the toughest assignments, and being partnered with a guy like Carlson who is playing the best hockey of his career (well before Kempny came) also helps. And let's not pretend Kempny hasn't caused some heart attacks and played large roles in losses this playoffs - he had two major turnovers vs the Lightning that directly led to goals (GWG on one) and another in game one vs the Knights, just to name the most recent.

Kempny is what he is - a 4/5 LD that that works best when started more in the OZ. The Hawks have several of those in the system, all of being younger and either still signed or RFA. Since Kempny wasn't going to resign, it was better to get value for him. Yeah, maybe Q could have done more to keep him but I don't think he was the right d-man for the Hawks right now - he'd have been fine on 2013-2015 team imo.

And they did get pretty fair value for him based on comparable trades of d-men leading up to and during the TDL last season: Cole for 2020 3rd + C-level prospect, Davidson 2019 3rd, Holden 2018 3rd + C-level prospect, Morrow 2018 4th, Reilly 2019 5th, etc. Most of those guys are either more established top 4 or younger so for the future. Kempny isn't as good as Cole or Holden but is a bit more than some of the younger guys so yeah, prett fair market value.

I also don't think it's accurate to say Rutta was in competition with Kempny for a spot because they play different sides. The both were tried on their offsides and we're terrible, so it wasn't about one or the other. Rutta gets kept because the Hawks have all of 2 true RD NHL players without him and only two RD prospects (once Jokiharju signs).

Forsling and Gus were the guys that ultimately were battling for a spot with Kempny (the former more than Gus cause Gus came later). Forsling showed flashes of being strong but was inconsistent - he was 6 years younger though so I don't think it's weird they feel he had more of a future. And Gus, who is also younger, is similar to Kempny in a lot of ways, though I don't necessarily think he's better or not.

Kempny was alright in his own end, it's the mistakes in transition that cost him in playing time (though he did get a majority of 50 games last season playing top 4). Since the Caps 1) shelter him in the OZ a lot, 2) play a different transition scheme, 3) have a forward core that is better defensively and goalie who is not a backup, his mistakes are less impactful in general. Niskanen-Orlov playing the top pair, getting the toughest assignments, and being partnered with a guy like Carlson who is playing the best hockey of his career (well before Kempny came) also helps. And let's not pretend Kempny hasn't caused some heart attacks and played large roles in losses this playoffs - he had two major turnovers vs the Lightning that directly led to goals (GWG on one) and another in game one vs the Knights, just to name the most recent.

Kempny is what he is - a 4/5 LD that that works best when started more in the OZ. The Hawks have several of those in the system, all of being younger and either still signed or RFA. Since Kempny wasn't going to resign, it was better to get value for him. Yeah, maybe Q could have done more to keep him but I don't think he was the right d-man for the Hawks right now - he'd have been fine on 2013-2015 team imo.

And they did get pretty fair value for him based on comparable trades of d-men leading up to and during the TDL last season: Cole for 2020 3rd + C-level prospect, Davidson 2019 3rd, Holden 2018 3rd + C-level prospect, Morrow 2018 4th, Reilly 2019 5th, etc. Most of those guys are either more established top 4 or younger so for the future. Kempny isn't as good as Cole or Holden but is a bit more than some of the younger guys so yeah, prett fair market value.

I also don't think it's accurate to say Rutta was in competition with Kempny for a spot because they play different sides. The both were tried on their offsides and we're terrible, so it wasn't about one or the other. Rutta gets kept because the Hawks have all of 2 true RD NHL players without him and only two RD prospects (once Jokiharju signs).

Forsling and Gus were the guys that ultimately were battling for a spot with Kempny (the former more than Gus cause Gus came later). Forsling showed flashes of being strong but was inconsistent - he was 6 years younger though so I don't think it's weird they feel he had more of a future. And Gus, who is also younger, is similar to Kempny in a lot of ways, though I don't necessarily think he's better or not.
- L_B_R

Man, did I miss you and Wiz! You both post some of the best stuff on here, and are not optimistic or pessimistic, but just realists. I love it! Keep it coming!

As a coyote fan, I really don't want to continue the practice of taking teams' bad contracts just to get to the floor. We have one more year of Bolland, and then he is off the books. We will have OEL on a new deal in 2019, with Keller coming up for a new deal also in 2020. I'd rather not tie up 5.25 mil in cap space for the next 3 years.

That being said, Stan and John C have shown that they like making deals with each other so if this is what we do, I would want the 27th pick at minimum with another prospect thrown in. Unless that's the starting point, I hope the Coyotes take a pass...

As a coyote fan, I really don't want to continue the practice of taking teams' bad contracts just to get to the floor. We have one more year of Bolland, and then he is off the books. We will have OEL on a new deal in 2019, with Keller coming up for a new deal also in 2020. I'd rather not tie up 5.25 mil in cap space for the next 3 years.

That being said, Stan and John C have shown that they like making deals with each other so if this is what we do, I would want the 27th pick at minimum with another prospect thrown in. Unless that's the starting point, I hope the Coyotes take a pass...
- gmiel1980

unused cap space is an asset you can sell.

if you can sell it for draft picks/prospects, why not do it?

Fixed
- BlazinMike

That's uncalled for...

Kempny was alright in his own end, it's the mistakes in transition that cost him in playing time (though he did get a majority of 50 games last season playing top 4). Since the Caps 1) shelter him in the OZ a lot, 2) play a different transition scheme, 3) have a forward core that is better defensively and goalie who is not a backup, his mistakes are less impactful in general. Niskanen-Orlov playing the top pair, getting the toughest assignments, and being partnered with a guy like Carlson who is playing the best hockey of his career (well before Kempny came) also helps. And let's not pretend Kempny hasn't caused some heart attacks and played large roles in losses this playoffs - he had two major turnovers vs the Lightning that directly led to goals (GWG on one) and another in game one vs the Knights, just to name the most recent.

Kempny is what he is - a 4/5 LD that that works best when started more in the OZ. The Hawks have several of those in the system, all of being younger and either still signed or RFA. Since Kempny wasn't going to resign, it was better to get value for him. Yeah, maybe Q could have done more to keep him but I don't think he was the right d-man for the Hawks right now - he'd have been fine on 2013-2015 team imo.

And they did get pretty fair value for him based on comparable trades of d-men leading up to and during the TDL last season: Cole for 2020 3rd + C-level prospect, Davidson 2019 3rd, Holden 2018 3rd + C-level prospect, Morrow 2018 4th, Reilly 2019 5th, etc. Most of those guys are either more established top 4 or younger so for the future. Kempny isn't as good as Cole or Holden but is a bit more than some of the younger guys so yeah, prett fair market value.

I also don't think it's accurate to say Rutta was in competition with Kempny for a spot because they play different sides. The both were tried on their offsides and we're terrible, so it wasn't about one or the other. Rutta gets kept because the Hawks have all of 2 true RD NHL players without him and only two RD prospects (once Jokiharju signs).

Forsling and Gus were the guys that ultimately were battling for a spot with Kempny (the former more than Gus cause Gus came later). Forsling showed flashes of being strong but was inconsistent - he was 6 years younger though so I don't think it's weird they feel he had more of a future. And Gus, who is also younger, is similar to Kempny in a lot of ways, though I don't necessarily think he's better or not.
- L_B_R

Forsling and Rutta were awful. Ulf and Q actually had the audacity and arrogance to play them together. I think in one game they were a combined minus infinity. I remember one poster posting that the pair ended up not playing that much in that game so their incompetence was not only obvious but efficient. Gus faired better by his own admission because Seabrook protected him. The one thing that Kempny has that these others do not is an aggressive edge. The other 3 (and Oesterle) wouldn’t take the body if their lives depended on it. My initial comments regarding Kempny came in response to Savoy who said StanBo traded him for nothing. I said Q forced the trade as Kempny wasn’t being played and wasn’t resigning. Got a 3 which I thought was pretty good, especially in the circumstances.

I'd like to see them work with Oesterle a bit more on the defensive side of the game. I thought he showed more mobility initially. But they have plenty of guys not unlike him to choose from.
- 6628

Hope the Hawks do work with him but the aggressive streak that he needs to develop in the D-Zone must come from himself. My problem with all the young D that the Hawks have is we really don’t know what we have as Ulf’s system was just such a mess last season. Would Oesterle, Forsling and Rutta have performed better and had more confidence playing under a safer system? Moving forward with Q and Ulf still in place may not have been the best alternative to choose.

In response to Wiz saying I rip off ISS and other sites, please site a single instance of this.

I did my (albeit crappy and not nearly as in-depth as someone who's actually putting their crap up for money) homework on each guy, and wrote from there. I never once copied and pasted, and certainly haven't tried to pass off my haphazard work as anything other than a conversation starter and exactly that, haphazard work.

So with regards to you thinking I'm stealing content... blow that opinion right out your @ss.

I do hope to see you posting more draft stuff, because the #8 and #27 picks are two of the biggest picks we've had in years.

on the New guy Nillson. I think the reason is at his age a ELC is 1 year?

Forsling and Rutta were awful. Ulf and Q actually had the audacity and arrogance to play them together. I think in one game they were a combined minus infinity. I remember one poster posting that the pair ended up not playing that much in that game so their incompetence was not only obvious but efficient. Gus faired better by his own admission because Seabrook protected him. The one thing that Kempny has that these others do not is an aggressive edge. The other 3 (and Oesterle) wouldn’t take the body if their lives depended on it. My initial comments regarding Kempny came in response to Savoy who said StanBo traded him for nothing. I said Q forced the trade as Kempny wasn’t being played and wasn’t resigning. Got a 3 which I thought was pretty good, especially in the circumstances.
- Z3Hawk

Hmm I don't think they were terrible, but they shouldn't have been deployed as shutdown guys together. Initially, they were really solid in that role but it tapered off after about 15 games and Q/Ulf stuck with them too long past that. It also feels like revisionist history to ignore that both were playing well to start the season.

Rutta is like many pick-ups lately in that he started out strong but waned as the season went. Gus in 2015-16 and Kempny in 2016-17 were exactly the same. I have no idea if Rutta will be able to stay strong through an entire season again or be better, just that as an RD, they'll keep him because they have no other options atm.

Forsling's issue is consistency but in that that he only played in extremes - he either has a really good or really bad game. Being only 20/21, that kind of inconsistency is to be expected imo. I'm on record as saying I think he was rushed to the show a bit, and the Hawks somewhat admit it cause he was supposed to play another season in Sweden, but he certainly has shown enough potential to warrant given more time to see how he plays out. There are a lot of things to like about Forsling's game imo.

I don't dislike Kempny as a player or anything, I just think he was superfluous to the Hawks in many ways and wasn't going to resign, so I don't really understand the angst over his loss just because he's working in a better defensive group on a better overall team now. Not saying you specifically are angsting or anything, just people in general.

I do think the Hawks need to figure out a system that works best with their players and really get them to all play into it. If they want to play aggressive, they have to work with Gus/Oesterle/Forsling/whoever to be aggressive in all way, including using their bodies. If they want to play safer, then just work it out.

on the New guy Nillson. I think the reason is at his age a ELC is 1 year?
- kmw4631

Correct. He's 24 and 24+ players can only sign 1 year ELC.

I know I am the lone dissenter... but I believe Hossa could be dealt to someone that is going to be above the cap floor, but is far enough below the cap ceiling (which they will not be using because of self imposed budget restraints) to absorb Hossa's contract. In exchange for taking the cap hit, they will pay out only $1 mil in salary for the next 3 years and in return they will get a combination of draft picks and "b" level prospects. I would give up a 3rd this year, a 4th next year, and a 5th the following year. Or as an alternative I might give up our 2nd pick next season for 3 years of cap space.