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Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: Response to Seabrook Trade Proposal
Author Message
mauryballstein
Vancouver Canucks
Location: vancouver, BC
Joined: 06.12.2015

May 26 @ 4:53 PM ET
haha he is the worst player in the league when the contract is figured in.. you would need to retain 50% and give up a 2nd for every year of the deal.. look at what other teams are giving away for players with a year or 2 of poor salary\
Blazed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 07.18.2012

May 26 @ 5:02 PM ET
What are talking about piglets aaltonen etc..
- Scott1977


Your rock hogs! I guess they probably won’t make the finals.
BetweenTheDots
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 06.13.2015

May 26 @ 5:25 PM ET
History shows buyout relief at tha last CBA because it mandated a cap reduction of about $5MM going from 2013 into the next (2013-14) season.

I wouldn’t count on that this time around.

- StLBravesFan


Wasn't it the last 2 cba's the buy outs were allowed, not sure but i think so.
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

May 26 @ 5:40 PM ET
Wasn't it the last 2 cba's the buy outs were allowed, not sure but i think so.
- BetweenTheDots


Wasn’t the CBA negotiated after the lost season the first including a cap?

If so, team salaries would have dropped dramatically (as if the cap had dropped).

I don’t know if compliance buyouts were allowed under that agreement, but if so, they would have been for the same reason as in 2013 - to help teams come into cap compliance.

There is no logical reason for buyouts unless a reduced cap means some teams would find it impossible to comply without them.

Doesn’t mean there wouldn’t be buyouts allowed under the next CBA, even without a falling cap - I just don’t think it would happen.
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

May 26 @ 5:56 PM ET
Your rock hogs! I guess they probably won’t make the finals.
- Blazed

Ok i got it piglets hogs good one time will tell hope they make good experience going forward with development.
BetweenTheDots
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 06.13.2015

May 26 @ 6:11 PM ET
Wasn’t the CBA negotiated after the lost season the first including a cap?

If so, team salaries would have dropped dramatically (as if the cap had dropped).

I don’t know if compliance buyouts were allowed under that agreement, but if so, they would have been for the same reason as in 2013 - to help teams come into cap compliance.

There is no logical reason for buyouts unless a reduced cap means some teams would find it impossible to comply without them.

Doesn’t mean there wouldn’t be buyouts allowed under the next CBA, even without a falling cap - I just don’t think it would happen.

- StLBravesFan


Sure they would if enough owners want them. Let's say the owners that want them don't get them, those same owners can then say okay if we don't get our compliance by out we want the salary floor raised.... we'll see but using logic for the NHL for what they do and don't do is kind of funny, and to be clear I'm making fun of the NHL not you
wonthecup10
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 02.05.2008

May 26 @ 8:06 PM ET
Lol Hawks are not getting those types players for Seabrook.

Seabrook is almost 10 years older than those guys with a terrible contract. I doubt Keith gets you one of those players, but definitely not Seabrook.

- KINGS67


Your probably right, he's probably untradable , he's not terrible, so the best thing for him to be would for him to get his ass in shape this summer and try to have at least 2 more good seasons given his contract. In the mean time Bowman has to hope some of these so called D man he has pans out, otherwise trade for 1or sign a couple of FA's. Its a crap shoot at this point.
Return of the Roar
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Solidly grounded in reality, IL
Joined: 07.27.2009

May 26 @ 8:50 PM ET
Until we draft a D guy who is taller than 6’, weighs more than 180, and has a prayer of standing up a guy like Alex Tuch, this D group has no business trying to trade Seabrook. Might be the only guy on the Hawk blue line who can hit anyone.

Yeah, he’s a step slower, but he has been shackled with inept partners for years now playing teacher/safety valve.

FO needs to get him in the gym and get him a competent partner.

And while they are at it, let’s try finding some guys like Alex Tuch instead of Alex DeBrincat.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

May 26 @ 9:11 PM ET
Until we draft a D guy who is taller than 6’, weighs more than 180, and has a prayer of standing up a guy like Alex Tuch, this D group has no business trying to trade Seabrook. Might be the only guy on the Hawk blue line who can hit anyone.

Yeah, he’s a step slower, but he has been shackled with inept partners for years now playing teacher/safety valve.

FO needs to get him in the gym and get him a competent partner.

And while they are at it, let’s try finding some guys like Alex Tuch instead of Alex DeBrincat.

- Return of the Roar


How about in addition to? Guy just put up 28 G's and 52 pts as a 20 year old. I know the popular narrative was that he's too small and would wilt when thrown into the fray.

I think we can ditch that narrative no? Alex Tuch instead of say Vinnie? Sure, sign me up.
L_B_R
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.23.2014

May 26 @ 9:37 PM ET
How about in addition to? Guy just put up 28 G's and 52 pts as a 20 year old. I know the popular narrative was that he's too small and would wilt when thrown into the fray.

I think we can ditch that narrative no? Alex Tuch instead of say Vinnie? Sure, sign me up.

- HawkintheD

Exactly. Considering how talented Debrincat obviously is, that's a weird comparison, especially when you remember that Debrincat was picked outside the 1st round and so was less guaranteed to make it at all.

I think Tuch is going to be good, but let's not forget that Debrincat took 3 less years to impact the NHL despite being smaller and he had a higher PPG at that younger age (.63 vs .47). Debrincat was 5th for his draft class this past season - behind only Matthew, Laine, Keller, Tkachuk (all top 10 picks). That's some good company to be in lbr.

On top of all that, Tuch was taken at 18th, which is higher than the Hawks have drafted under Bowman outside of one time. So the only accurate narrative would be Tuch instead of Teravainen, but TT is likely to be the better player as well so I'm not sure that will work either.
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

May 26 @ 9:53 PM ET
Exactly. Considering how talent Debrincat obviously is, that's a weird comparison, especially when you remember that Debrincat was picked outside the 1st round and so was less guaranteed to make it at all.

I think Tuch is going to be good, but let's not forget that Debrincat took 3 less years to impact the NHL despite being smaller and he had a higher PPG at that younger age (.63 vs .47). Debrincat was 5th for his draft class this past season - behind only Matthew, Laine, Keller, Tkachuk (all top 10 picks). That's some good company to be in lbr.

On top of all that, Tuch was taken at 18th, which is hgiher the Hawks have drafted under Bowman outside of one time. So the only accurate narrative would be Tuch instead of Teravainen, but TT is likely to be the better player as well so I'm not sure that will work either.

- L_B_R

Hypothetical what would the hawks have to give up for tuck? This probably is not going to happen but what about taking a run at rust from pitt rfa I believe and is due a raise and the pens don't have a lot of cap space. 4 million and a lot of rfa's to sign maybe sheehan if not rust. What say would be the proposed trades? Say if the hawks get Sheehan then could move AA to Montreal for couple 2nd round picks or prospect.
Abadseed
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Arlington hts, IL
Joined: 01.20.2014

May 26 @ 10:03 PM ET
Hypothetical what would the hawks have to give up for tuck? This probably is not going to happen but what about taking a run at rust from pitt rfa I believe and is due a raise and the pens don't have a lot of cap space. 4 million and a lot of rfa's to sign maybe sheehan if not rust. What say would be the proposed trades? Say if the hawks get Sheehan then could move AA to Montreal for couple 2nd round picks or prospect.
- Scott1977


I think pitt would match what’s we could offer without our own 2nd round pick which Montreal has. Would need that trade to happen first but then hope pitt wouldn’t match or are center depth is worse
1.3/ to roughly2,030,000 is a third After that you need your 2nd
L_B_R
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.23.2014

May 26 @ 10:07 PM ET
Hypothetical what would the hawks have to give up for tuck? This probably is not going to happen but what about taking a run at rust from pitt rfa I believe and is due a raise and the pens don't have a lot of cap space. 4 million and a lot of rfa's to sign maybe sheehan if not rust. What say would be the proposed trades? Say if the hawks get Sheehan then could move AA to Montreal for couple 2nd round picks or prospect.
- Scott1977

Vegas aren't going to move Tuch, and if the Hawks wanted someone like Rust, they would have kept Hartman (who plays a similar style but is 3 years younger). Sheahan could be a good checking center so he would be a good pick up but the Pens would probably like to keep him - he was playing 3C over Brassard in the playoffs.

If the Hawks do move on from Anisimov, I'd like to see them target someone like Pageau, who has had Bolland-like deployment for a few years now (faced opposing top line is a defensive role that also puts up points).
tvetter
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burkesville, KY
Joined: 12.16.2015

May 26 @ 10:40 PM ET
Exactly. Considering how talent Debrincat obviously is, that's a weird comparison, especially when you remember that Debrincat was picked outside the 1st round and so was less guaranteed to make it at all.

I think Tuch is going to be good, but let's not forget that Debrincat took 3 less years to impact the NHL despite being smaller and he had a higher PPG at that younger age (.63 vs .47). Debrincat was 5th for his draft class this past season - behind only Matthew, Laine, Keller, Tkachuk (all top 10 picks). That's some good company to be in lbr.

On top of all that, Tuch was taken at 18th, which is hgiher the Hawks have drafted under Bowman outside of one time. So the only accurate narrative would be Tuch instead of Teravainen, but TT is likely to be the better player as well so I'm not sure that will work either.

- L_B_R

LBR! Welcome back! I haven't seen a post from you in forever, and I've missed your insights. I don't know much about analytics, so I've always liked for your posts because they dumb things down for guys like me.
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

May 26 @ 10:42 PM ET
How about in addition to? Guy just put up 28 G's and 52 pts as a 20 year old. I know the popular narrative was that he's too small and would wilt when thrown into the fray.

I think we can ditch that narrative no? Alex Tuch instead of say Vinnie? Sure, sign me up.

- HawkintheD


Please...we all know DeBrincat is too small for the NHL and needs several years of seasoning in the AHL. Stan’s first fail was drafting him, his second fail was not keeping him in Rockford for the foreseeable future. Now that DeBrincat has experienced a half-way decent season Stan’s third fail was not unloading him before his performance levels plummet back to the expected lows that finally send him to Rockford.
L_B_R
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.23.2014

May 26 @ 10:52 PM ET
LBR! Welcome back! I haven't seen a post from you in forever, and I've missed your insights. I don't know much about analytics, so I've always liked for your posts because they dumb things down for guys like me.
- tvetter
Hi! And stop or you're going to make me blush. I'm glad I poked my head in here now though and will try to do so a bit more often than I have.
Spec41971
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Rolling meadows, IL
Joined: 03.04.2017

May 26 @ 10:56 PM ET
Vegas aren't going to move Tuch, and if the Hawks wanted someone like Rust, they would have kept Hartman (who plays a similar style but is 3 years younger). Sheahan could be a good checking center so he would be a good pick up but the Pens would probably like to keep him - he was playing 3C over Brassard in the playoffs.

If the Hawks do move on from Anisimov, I'd like to see them target someone like Pageau, who has had Bolland-like deployment for a few years now (faced opposing top line is a defensive role that also puts up points).

- L_B_R


L_B_R: thank god you are back. I really missed your analysis. I believe I am not alone. Welcome back!
kwolf68
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Mt. Lebanon, PA
Joined: 12.18.2010

May 27 @ 1:37 AM ET

At least this Seabrook trade talk is over. He is simply unmovable...unless you offer multiple picks/prospects for someone to take his deal, he is no longer a viable NHL player. I love this guy for what he did, but he can't do it anymore...the excuses that he played with this guy or that guy are ridiculous. His partner had ZERO to do with him getting easily walked wide time and time again, because he no longer can play at the speed of the NHL in 2018. It's over. He'll be a niche' third pairing guy making huge bucks for a long time. It's part of the reason the Hawks are now an afterthought in the NHL pecking order. Dumb management.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

May 27 @ 2:08 AM ET
At least this Seabrook trade talk is over. He is simply unmovable...unless you offer multiple picks/prospects for someone to take his deal, he is no longer a viable NHL player. I love this guy for what he did, but he can't do it anymore...the excuses that he played with this guy or that guy are ridiculous. His partner had ZERO to do with him getting easily walked wide time and time again, because he no longer can play at the speed of the NHL in 2018. It's over. He'll be a niche' third pairing guy making huge bucks for a long time. It's part of the reason the Hawks are now an afterthought in the NHL pecking order. Dumb management.
- kwolf68


LTIR
Blazed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 07.18.2012

May 27 @ 2:56 AM ET
Honestly it’s contracts like this that are lowering the average age in the NHL. It’s not entirely about speed and youth it’s about contracts and control.

If this was a non cap league Toronto would absolutely consider adding Seabrook, the guy is still an NHL capable defensemen. Funny how much ability gets skewed by contract.
Blazed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 07.18.2012

May 27 @ 2:57 AM ET
LTIR
- EnzoD


Seems most likely, that or a cap floor team aka Arizona, not next season but soon.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

May 27 @ 4:52 AM ET
Please...we all know DeBrincat is too small for the NHL and needs several years of seasoning in the AHL. Stan’s first fail was drafting him, his second fail was not keeping him in Rockford for the foreseeable future. Now that DeBrincat has experienced a half-way decent season Stan’s third fail was not unloading him before his performance levels plummet back to the expected lows that finally send him to Rockford.
- DarthKane


Or worse. He continues to get better and Stan has to pay him...which of course will be an overpay, with NMC, too many years, etc.
boilermaker100
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.23.2015

May 27 @ 9:37 AM ET
Exactly. Considering how talented Debrincat obviously is, that's a weird comparison, especially when you remember that Debrincat was picked outside the 1st round and so was less guaranteed to make it at all.

I think Tuch is going to be good, but let's not forget that Debrincat took 3 less years to impact the NHL despite being smaller and he had a higher PPG at that younger age (.63 vs .47). Debrincat was 5th for his draft class this past season - behind only Matthew, Laine, Keller, Tkachuk (all top 10 picks). That's some good company to be in lbr.

On top of all that, Tuch was taken at 18th, which is higher than the Hawks have drafted under Bowman outside of one time. So the only accurate narrative would be Tuch instead of Teravainen, but TT is likely to be the better player as well so I'm not sure that will work either.

- L_B_R


Welcome back L_B_R! Look forward to your contributions in the future.
pdx2ord
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Portland, OR
Joined: 09.02.2015

May 27 @ 9:53 AM ET
Sure they would if enough owners want them. Let's say the owners that want them don't get them, those same owners can then say okay if we don't get our compliance by out we want the salary floor raised.... we'll see but using logic for the NHL for what they do and don't do is kind of funny, and to be clear I'm making fun of the NHL not you
- BetweenTheDots


If I were an owner, I'd fight for rights to restructure contracts (small number a year) and the ability to break cap to keep homegrown talent, say at a 10% over cap max or something. Players may never go for the first one, but if they know their option is being bought out or FA'ed, maybe they would.

ETA: This might help with the youth for cost's sake issue the Toronto person raised. Vegas is full of mostly vets and is beating the teams full of a few superstars surrounded by speedy youth. Something to be said for experience, still.
hocktock
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Over by dere.
Joined: 07.15.2015

May 27 @ 9:59 AM ET
LBR! Welcome back! I haven't seen a post from you in forever, and I've missed your insights. I don't know much about analytics, so I've always liked for your posts because they dumb things down for guys like me.
- tvetter


!!!!!This!!!!!
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