Wanna blog? Start your own hockey blog with My HockeyBuzz. Register for free today!
 
Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: Those Guys Are Better: Washington Capitals
Author Message
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

May 17 @ 12:56 PM ET
https://blackhawkup.com/2...ainen-worth-looking-into/

Most of you know the Canes are having a open to moving anyone on the team except Aho. BlackhawkUp has an article pondering whether the Hawks should consider bringing Teravainen back. What do you all think?

I personally would kick the tires on Teuvo but would also look at other Canes like Darling, Lindholm, Rask, Slavin, Hanifin, Pesce, Fleury, and Faulk.

Although I was never enamored with van Riemsdyk when he was a Hawk, I wouldn't mind if he was brought back as he is still better defensively than Gustafsson, Oesterle, and Rutta.
PatShart
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Vegas, NV
Joined: 06.25.2015

May 17 @ 1:22 PM ET
One of the best post yet buddy, regarding this topic! I understand there are posters on this site like myself that invest in season tickets. But I think most of the bashing is coming from those that are either A) Metal table top or hockey card GM’s ,the closest they get to seeing the BLACKHAWKS’s from their couch on TV, or the juvenile age that don’t really understand. You really have to think this out, those old enough to remember what happened from the backlash when Bobby Hull was run out of town by the owner, the media and the fans have a tendency to do that sometime here in the city, and another’s. I would just leave well enough alone and let the Blackhawk hierarchy and Jonathan TOEWS figure it out By their selves. Other than his buddies up in the peg that see him regularly, he may be training real hard this summer and recommitting to having a better season next year. This is just one man’s opinion that is all. Everybody else is welcome to their own.
- wonthecup10


So is those critical of his finished play are "metal table top" fans or armchair GMs as you suggest...does that make you a Toews Jersey wearing face painter more "right"? Or can people critical of his continued offense and skating decline be more than arm chair GMs and see skating and strength flaws that are concerning since they started at 27yrs old?
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

May 17 @ 1:27 PM ET
Meanwhile, Patrick Kane carrying Team USA on his shoulders with another dominant game vs the Czech's to help USA to the Final 4! I want to see these highlights.....

https://www.new-iihf.com/...ws/3160/team-usa-to-semis

"Just as penalty ended, Patrick Kane took the puck from his own zone, raced up the ice on the right wing into the Czech zone sending a shot far side that beat Francouz at 10:36. As he has done the entire tournament, Kane provided the offensive spark that his team needed. It was the captain’s seventh goal of the tournament and his first scored at even strength. All six of his previous goals were scored on the power play. Derek Ryan added an assist. .....nce again Patrick Kane was able to lift the Americans. Kane scored his second goal when he took the puck and faked out defenceman Filip Hronek, who fell to the ice, and created a 2-on-1. Kane opted for the shot and beat the netminder to make it 3-2 at 6:58 of the third.

Showing his tantalizing skillset, Kane attempted a spin-o-rama and able to get a shot off that hit the crossbar. His game was elevated and he was active in all zones."

MAKING THOSE AROUND YOU BETTER IS WHAT PATRICK KANE DOES. The only Superstar left on the Chicago Blackhawks. He will finish as the Greatest American Born Hockey Player in history...if he isn't already!

EDIT: I found the highlights....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eehCur6xSYk
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

May 17 @ 1:40 PM ET
Do you think they could get Teravainen back for Artur Kayumov or less? That would be ok since that's who they traded Teravainen for. Anything above that represents yet another miserable asset losing move by the general miserable manager who destroyed the Blackhawks by stupidly giving away ultra-destructive nuclear waste contracts only a miserable chimp of a fool would give out in the first place . Fire Bowman now.
- Savoy


What do you have against chimps??
wonthecup10
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 02.05.2008

May 17 @ 1:46 PM ET
So is those critical of his finished play are "metal table top" fans or armchair GMs as you suggest...does that make you a Toews Jersey wearing face painter more "right"? Or can people critical of his continued offense and skating decline be more than arm chair GMs and see skating and strength flaws that are concerning since they started at 27yrs old?
- PatShart



Pat, I said in my last sentence everybody is welcome to their own opinions, that is just mine what I had to say. And as far as face painting maybe my grandkids can do it, or maybe I should’ve did it when Bobby Hull was playing. As all of us fans like to read and become amused with these hockey blog websites. What is Eklund‘s batting average as far as trades that actually happened?
I am sure everybody has sources and Connections, and friends in the sport and industry, myself included, so I had showed this stuff to call my friend “who I can see is really high up the chain. The Blackhawk hierarchy is well aware of the stuff and they are amused by it. They are working very hard to correct the wrongs, but regarding any trades regarding Jonathan TOEWS, it will only, and I repeat only be done at his request if he comes to them. Which doesn’t seem like it will happen in the near future. That is all I’m trying to say. Like every other fan I am very interested in what Happens post Stanley Cup up till about 15 July, that should tell the tale on how good of a job or not that the Blackhawk hierarchy has done for the coming season. Everyone have a great day!
PatShart
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Vegas, NV
Joined: 06.25.2015

May 17 @ 1:51 PM ET
I don't think Toews gets moved at all, and I've been critical of him since his noticable skating/strength decline 3yrs ago

I think this was floated out there - as it happens often by teams - to sometimes gauge interest and sometimes to show a player you may not be as untouchable as you think. It's an ego blow to star players to hear their name out there and at times if a player has a lot of pride/competitveness..it can be a good motivator

But it's rather backhanded to call people "player card/stat readers" then say "everyone is entitled to their opinion"....hence the face painter comment, but then say you're entitled to your opinion
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

May 17 @ 1:54 PM ET
https://blackhawkup.com/2018/05/16/chicago-blackhawks-reunion-with-teravainen-worth-looking-into/

Most of you know the Canes are having a open to moving anyone on the team except Aho. BlackhawkUp has an article pondering whether the Hawks should consider bringing Teravainen back. What do you all think?

I personally would kick the tires on Teuvo but would also look at other Canes like Darling, Lindholm, Rask, Slavin, Hanifin, Pesce, Fleury, and Faulk.

Although I was never enamored with van Riemsdyk when he was a Hawk, I wouldn't mind if he was brought back as he is still better defensively than Gustafsson, Oesterle, and Rutta.

- AEL_Fox

Fleury mc ginn the i look at might not cost as much as the others
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

May 17 @ 2:35 PM ET
Fleury mc ginn the i look at might not cost as much as the others
- Scott1977

Didn't think about other Cane prospect but Gauthier (RW), Necas (C), and Zykov (LW) are worth a look. I'd think at least Necas and Zykov are amongst the top prospects in Carolina's system so they wouldn't be throw-ins in a trade.
Hawkytalk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Frankfort, IL
Joined: 06.26.2012

May 17 @ 2:39 PM ET
You are aware that Toews gets paid $10.5M a season which is a huge chunk of the Cap? Money given to Toews cannot be used to help the team elsewhere. Toews makes the same as Kane, who the Hawks expect will lead them in scoring each year and who works his butt off in season and off season. Toews should be contributing to the Hawks the way Crosby and Ovie contribute to their teams, which is obviously not occurring - and they are older. It is not unreasonable for fans, and the team for that matter, to expect Toews to actually earn his contract. There is no possible way for Toews to even begin to earn his contract when he is entering seasons not ready to play. Packing a Kale Smoothie when touring Machu Pichu doesn’t cut it for off season training. Just my little bit of “spewed nonsense.”
- Z3Hawk


Perfectly accurate "spew" Z.

We fans just want to try and understand why the decline and what's going on with his training ? I don't know if anybody has mentioned it yet but on the final game and recap of the season, Jamal Mayers actually stated that he thought Toews needed to lose some weight to get lighter and faster for next year. I thought that to be a totally different take on what most were saying about his body, strength, and skating.

In any event, I for one would want to keep him but only if he gets back to being the JT we're all accustomed to. And....... if it wasn't for his monstrous 10.5 cap hit, I'm thinking that all the talk of moving him wouldn't even exist. Even with 3 CUPS, this crazy salary cap has cost this team severely since CUP 1 in 2010.
We all know the laundry list of players that have been moved out because of it.
Can you imagine if they could have just retained Byfuglien ????
ToewsdNKanefusd
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Hampshire, IL
Joined: 05.14.2015

May 17 @ 2:42 PM ET
You are aware that Toews gets paid $10.5M a season which is a huge chunk of the Cap? Money given to Toews cannot be used to help the team elsewhere. Toews makes the same as Kane, who the Hawks expect will lead them in scoring each year and who works his butt off in season and off season. Toews should be contributing to the Hawks the way Crosby and Ovie contribute to their teams, which is obviously not occurring - and they are older. It is not unreasonable for fans, and the team for that matter, to expect Toews to actually earn his contract. There is no possible way for Toews to even begin to earn his contract when he is entering seasons not ready to play. Packing a Kale Smoothie when touring Machu Pichu doesn’t cut it for off season training. Just my little bit of “spewed nonsense.”
- Z3Hawk


Everyone needs to get off of the overpaid narrative. He was paid for past performance. Everyone, every job, is given raises based off of past performance. Removing him from the team isn't going to make the team better, and there is nothing else that can be done about his cap hit, so lamenting about it over and over again is doing absolutely nothing.

I think they can still get back to being competitive even with his cap hit "handcuffing" this team.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

May 17 @ 2:43 PM ET
Everyone needs to get off of the overpaid narrative. He was paid for past performance. Everyone, every job, is given raises based off of past performance. Removing him from the team isn't going to make the team better, and there is nothing else that can be done about his cap hit, so lamenting about it over and over again is doing absolutely nothing.

I think they can still get back to being competitive even with his cap hit "handcuffing" this team.

- ToewsdNKanefusd


It's not a narrative, it's a fact.
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

May 17 @ 2:48 PM ET
World's Tallest Midget - World's Shortest Giant.

Question is - is he still a legitimate top line center?

- StLBravesFan


Yes....in Rockford.
ToewsdNKanefusd
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Hampshire, IL
Joined: 05.14.2015

May 17 @ 2:51 PM ET
I don't think Toews gets moved at all, and I've been critical of him since his noticable skating/strength decline 3yrs ago

I think this was floated out there - as it happens often by teams - to sometimes gauge interest and sometimes to show a player you may not be as untouchable as you think. It's an ego blow to star players to hear their name out there and at times if a player has a lot of pride/competitveness..it can be a good motivator

But it's rather backhanded to call people "player card/stat readers" then say "everyone is entitled to their opinion"....hence the face painter comment, but then say you're entitled to your opinion

- PatShart


It didn't start 3 years ago, only this past year. 2 years ago, he had the back injury that affected his game until mid season when he played excellent. For the 2015-2016 season, I'm not sure what was the case then.
ToewsdNKanefusd
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Hampshire, IL
Joined: 05.14.2015

May 17 @ 2:54 PM ET
It's not a narrative, it's a fact.
- EnzoD



If he is being paid for past performance, then its not an overpay. He was instrumental in bringing this franchise from the bottom of the garbage heap and winning 3 cups. I think his current salary is certainly worth that.
-Doh-
Location: VA
Joined: 10.05.2015

May 17 @ 3:10 PM ET
Get a true 1RW to play with Saad and Toews for a full season. Don't put the flavor of the month on his RW. Don't put the line in the blender. Toews gets about 30 goals, 40 assists, plays in all situations, plays against the other teams top lines and top defenders, wins faceoffs, is a locker room presence. Is that a #1 center? Probably. Is it worth $10.5 mil. Probably not. Would you move him in the right deal in order to get some cap relief? Maybe in the right deal. Would he waive his NMC?
bhawks2241
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 09.17.2013

May 17 @ 3:24 PM ET
Get a true 1RW to play with Saad and Toews for a full season. Don't put the flavor of the month on his RW. Don't put the line in the blender. Toews gets about 30 goals, 40 assists, plays in all situations, plays against the other teams top lines and top defenders, wins faceoffs, is a locker room presence. Is that a #1 center? Probably. Is it worth $10.5 mil. Probably not. Would you move him in the right deal in order to get some cap relief? Maybe in the right deal. Would he waive his NMC?
- -Doh-



Pretty sure every coach is throwing their best D-men out against Kane. Anyone have Toews Ozone/Dzone stats this year? Toews on the PP? Puke.

Wins faceoff, plays solid 2 way game, puts up 50 pts. #1 Center?

Are you saying put an elite RW with Toews and his points will go up? Is that because of Toews? Or because the elite RW is carrying the line? Shouldn't an elite #1 center making 10.5 mil per year be the one carrying his line?

80 year old Joe Thorton looked like a better hockey player this year.
Revco38
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wherever I leave my hat
Joined: 07.26.2006

May 17 @ 3:30 PM ET
It's not a narrative, it's a fact.
- EnzoD


I cannot get a read on JT- if this is a decline or something else. Yes he is scoring less, but last year his numbers (corsi, fenwick, etc) were just below 2014-2015 numbers, and far better than the previous 2 years (and his corsi was less than 2 points behind Crosby).

https://www.hockey-refere...t/toewsjo01-advanced.html

So his peripherals were better, but his shot is off. From Scott Cullen:

It’s natural to see scoring 52 points, his lowest in a full season, and figure that the 30-year-old is just hitting decline after more than a decade of top-tier performance. The thing is, though, that Toews has been held under 60 points for three years running, and yet last season he was utterly dominant at 5-on-5 play (http://hockeyviz.com/fixe...i/1718/CHI/toewsjo88/wrap ); he just needed someone on his line who could finish (or, you know, he could have shot better than a career-worst 9.5%).

So is this burn-out? Playing with sub-par or rotating talent? Is his shot less effective or was he unlucky? Injury issues? The reason we are all arguing is because we have no idea what is going on (and maybe he does not know either).

Would be great if he was paid less, but at the time he signed his contract some of you were arguing why he should be considered to be better than Crosby. Would be great to have some of that money back, but that is not going to happen.


tyweb69
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 07.02.2012

May 17 @ 3:47 PM ET
Everyone needs to get off of the overpaid narrative. He was paid for past performance. Everyone, every job, is given raises based off of past performance. Removing him from the team isn't going to make the team better, and there is nothing else that can be done about his cap hit, so lamenting about it over and over again is doing absolutely nothing.

I think they can still get back to being competitive even with his cap hit "handcuffing" this team.

- ToewsdNKanefusd


Jesus knock it off with the past performance crap. Yes that works for regular joes and regular jobs where your performance doesn't decline with your age. But for professional athletes that is pure horse crap!! Most people get better at their jobs as they age, athletes do NOT (after their prime that is). I am not saying Toews didn't deserve a raise but I am saying his contract should have absolutely been predicated on what his performance would be from age 27-35 and not past performance.

Seabrook did not deserve a raise. 29 yo athletes only DECLINE as proven by just about any athlete ever. Some decline slower than others yes, but they ALL decline. Father time is infinity and 0 in that department!!

The past performance argument is a joke and is further proven by the fact that after the salary cap was implemented GM's starting paying players for FUTURE performance in order to keep their cap hit down before they blew up and starting making real bank (Montreal made this mistake with Subban when they bridged him for 2 years after his ELC and then he blew up and got paid). They were shifting away from the paying for past performance model that was so big in the late 90's and early 00's.

Clearly you do not remember the dark years. That's when GM's were overpaying for past performance. Doug Gilmour 3 x 6M when he was DONE. Lot's of has beens getting paid because they used to be good. That does not happen anymore but apparently Stan (and you and many others on this board) never got that memo!!
PatShart
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Vegas, NV
Joined: 06.25.2015

May 17 @ 3:57 PM ET
It didn't start 3 years ago, only this past year. 2 years ago, he had the back injury that affected his game until mid season when he played excellent. For the 2015-2016 season, I'm not sure what was the case then.
- ToewsdNKanefusd


It's been 3 years, not just last year
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

May 17 @ 4:32 PM ET
Didn't think about other Cane prospect but Gauthier (RW), Necas (C), and Zykov (LW) are worth a look. I'd think at least Necas and Zykov are amongst the top prospects in Carolina's system so they wouldn't be throw-ins in a trade.
- AEL_Fox


I would think, just my opinion they would want to keep those young players. Absolutely be looking at necas Gauthier zykov, my point with fleruy and mcginn might not have give up as much for those two. Fleruy seems to have top 4 potential and mcginn has skill and grit to play in the bottom 6. But who knows what the new gm and owner are thinking and what their overall plain is.
wonthecup10
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 02.05.2008

May 17 @ 4:40 PM ET
I don't think Toews gets moved at all, and I've been critical of him since his noticable skating/strength decline 3yrs ago

I think this was floated out there - as it happens often by teams - to sometimes gauge interest and sometimes to show a player you may not be as untouchable as you think. It's an ego blow to star players to hear their name out there and at times if a player has a lot of pride/competitveness..it can be a good motivator

But it's rather backhanded to call people "player card/stat readers" then say "everyone is entitled to their opinion"....hence the face painter comment, but then say you're entitled to your opinion

- PatShart


👍
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

May 17 @ 4:46 PM ET
I would think, just my opinion they would want to keep those young players. Absolutely be looking at necas Gauthier zykov, my point with fleruy and mcginn might not have give up as much for those two. Fleruy seems to have top 4 potential and mcginn has skill and grit to play in the bottom 6. But who knows what the new gm and owner are thinking and what their overall plain is.
- Scott1977

I agree. The Canes have a glut of blueliners with great potential so it may be easier to acquire one like Fleury or Bean. High-end forward prospects like Gauthier, Necas, and Zykov would be tougher since they're not as plentiful within their system.

Like the Hawks, most of their forward prospects are likely middle or bottom 6 players so it's best to hold on like heck to your top 6 forward prospects unless the trade return is a no brainer.
Z3Hawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.04.2017

May 17 @ 5:16 PM ET
Everyone needs to get off of the overpaid narrative. He was paid for past performance. Everyone, every job, is given raises based off of past performance. Removing him from the team isn't going to make the team better, and there is nothing else that can be done about his cap hit, so lamenting about it over and over again is doing absolutely nothing.

I think they can still get back to being competitive even with his cap hit "handcuffing" this team.

- ToewsdNKanefusd


He wasn’t paid $10.5M simply for past performance, in the same way that Kane wasn’t. Same for Crosby and Ovie. Toews was given $10.5M to perform at an elite level moving forward - as in best in NHL level. The team may have thought that at a point later in the contract there may be overpayment but the team didn’t believe it would happen immedietely. It is not about the $10.5M it is about Toews doing everything possible to perform at a high level - and he has not done this. Talk to Kane, talk to Goodman. Talk to the infinite list of experts and nutritionists that the Hawks would have connections with. Internet gurus - NO! Your GF - NO! Your water skiing buddies - NO! Start actually acting like a Leader in name and action and not as a spoiled, clueless teen-ager.
-Doh-
Location: VA
Joined: 10.05.2015

May 17 @ 5:18 PM ET
Pretty sure every coach is throwing their best D-men out against Kane. Anyone have Toews Ozone/Dzone stats this year? Toews on the PP? Puke.

Wins faceoff, plays solid 2 way game, puts up 50 pts. #1 Center?

Are you saying put an elite RW with Toews and his points will go up? Is that because of Toews? Or because the elite RW is carrying the line? Shouldn't an elite #1 center making 10.5 mil per year be the one carrying his line?

80 year old Joe Thorton looked like a better hockey player this year.

- bhawks2241


- I am saying #1C's usually play with a #1 RW and #1LW.
- I am saying with an elite RW Toews points go up.
- Any center playing with 2 good wings will perform better than any center with one good wing.
- A good RW would make the line better. A weak RW will make the line worse.
- Did you watch Thornton a lot this year? He missed half the year. Thornton played 47 games and scored 13 times with 23 assists and was a minus 9 this year and made $8mil. Toews is 8 years younger played 74 games with 20 goals and 32 assists and was a minus 1 and made $10.5mil. Both are over paid. No denying that.

My opinion is you put Toews and Saad with a good RW and leave them alone for the year, Toews puts up Toews 2010 to 2015 like numbers.

You disagree.

I am ok with that.
Rayipsd
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Naperville, IL
Joined: 02.16.2018

May 17 @ 5:29 PM ET
- I am saying #1C's usually play with a #1 RW and #1LW.
- I am saying with an elite RW Toews points go up.
- Any center playing with 2 good wings will perform better than any center with one good wing.
- A good RW would make the line better. A weak RW will make the line worse.
- Did you watch Thornton a lot this year? He missed half the year. Thornton played 47 games and scored 13 times with 23 assists and was a minus 9 this year and made $8mil. Toews is 8 years younger played 74 games with 20 goals and 32 assists and was a minus 1 and made $10.5mil. Both are over paid. No denying that.

My opinion is you put Toews and Saad with a good RW and leave them alone for the year, Toews puts up Toews 2010 to 2015 like numbers.

You disagree.

I am ok with that.

- -Doh-

Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14  Next