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Forums :: Blog World :: Ryan Wilson: Enough with the Kris Letang lunacy
Author Message
Ryan Wilson
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Rochester, NY
Joined: 06.13.2013

May 9 @ 10:22 AM ET
Ryan Wilson: Enough with the Kris Letang lunacy Enough with the Kris Letang lunacy
TheSabresTaco
Buffalo Sabres
Location: For me. jack Eichel is bobby ryan….that's it. - Octavarium, NY
Joined: 05.05.2011

May 9 @ 10:32 AM ET
positivity like this is not tolerated on this website.

Good day, sir.
Thorny87
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Calgary, AB
Joined: 10.17.2014

May 9 @ 10:49 AM ET
The argument that, you see the mistakes more cause he has the puck more is not completely accurate. His play away from the puck is what's causing fans to lose their minds. He makes Pee wee level mistakes that have nothing to do with him handling the puck.

That being said he is the only D man we have that can make a pass out of our zone or skate it out if the pass is not there.
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

May 9 @ 10:49 AM ET
I agree with all of this RW.

Not one of Letang's major gaffes these playoffs were bailed by Murray..actually I think maybe one in the Philly series when he whiffed a pass right to the front of the net to a Philly player.
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

May 9 @ 10:50 AM ET


/end thread.
GalacticStone
Tampa Bay Lightning
Location: Supercharged engine powered by high octane butthurt
Joined: 01.29.2013

May 9 @ 10:53 AM ET
I think part of the issue is the inflated sense of Letang's abilities. For a long time, Letang benefited from playing on the best and most-stacked team in the NHL. Being surrounded by that level of talent allows a player to take risks and execute plays that would be unthinkable on a lesser team.

Flash forward some seasons and now the Pens are not as deep and their goaltending is a little iffier - this takes away some of that safety net that existed in prior seasons. As a result, Letang is coming back to Earth. He is a very good defenseman and perhaps one could label him as great or elite, but a part of his success was a product of the team itself.

The guy is human. He makes mistakes. It's not his fault the Caps won the series. Any team on the NHL would love to have Letang. I think part of the vitriol being directed against him is just general frustration from the fanbase - the Pens are a dynasty on an apparent slow decline, and the fans need a target for their frustrations.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

May 9 @ 10:55 AM ET
RW is 100% right.

That being said, as the team's top defenseman, he should be able to be criticized by the fan base for his mental mistakes. It's not even bad plays with the puck as much as it's his bad positioning and decision making away from the puck, the Kuznetsov goal being a prime example.

Now THAT being said, what are you going to do if you trade him? Who's going to step in and do a better job for the same or less money? John Carlson, who I love, isn't any better. There's no one in the pipeline who looks like they're ready to be a top-3 defender in the next 2-3 years. Are you okay with Maata moving up to the top pair and then making your 7/8 defensemen your 5/6 defensemen?
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 9 @ 11:00 AM ET
Nope. They didn't win the cup. Blow it up.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 9 @ 11:00 AM ET
RW is 100% right.

That being said, as the team's top defenseman, he should be able to be criticized by the fan base for his mental mistakes. It's not even bad plays with the puck as much as it's his bad positioning and decision making away from the puck, the Kuznetsov goal being a prime example.

Now THAT being said, what are you going to do if you trade him? Who's going to step in and do a better job for the same or less money? John Carlson, who I love, isn't any better. There's no one in the pipeline who looks like they're ready to be a top-3 defender in the next 2-3 years. Are you okay with Maata moving up to the top pair and then making your 7/8 defensemen your 5/6 defensemen?

- jmatchett383

Carlson is an overrated power play specialist.
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

May 9 @ 11:09 AM ET
You need to WATCH the game, please don't just throw charts and numbers for you argument, it's very lazy
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

May 9 @ 11:12 AM ET
I think part of the issue is the inflated sense of Letang's abilities. For a long time, Letang benefited from playing on the best and most-stacked team in the NHL. Being surrounded by that level of talent allows a player to take risks and execute plays that would be unthinkable on a lesser team.

Flash forward some seasons and now the Pens are not as deep and their goaltending is a little iffier - this takes away some of that safety net that existed in prior seasons. As a result, Letang is coming back to Earth. He is a very good defenseman and perhaps one could label him as great or elite, but a part of his success was a product of the team itself.

The guy is human. He makes mistakes. It's not his fault the Caps won the series. Any team on the NHL would love to have Letang. I think part of the vitriol being directed against him is just general frustration from the fanbase - the Pens are a dynasty on an apparent slow decline, and the fans need a target for their frustrations.

- GalacticStone


This was one of the deepest Pens teams since Letang has been on the roster... since 2007-08, this year's team has the 3rd most goals for per season behind 2016-17 and 2011-12. They got snake bitten in the playoffs, and Holtby played well.

This is a terrible analysis.
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

May 9 @ 11:16 AM ET
RW is 100% right.

That being said, as the team's top defenseman, he should be able to be criticized by the fan base for his mental mistakes. It's not even bad plays with the puck as much as it's his bad positioning and decision making away from the puck, the Kuznetsov goal being a prime example.

Now THAT being said, what are you going to do if you trade him? Who's going to step in and do a better job for the same or less money? John Carlson, who I love, isn't any better. There's no one in the pipeline who looks like they're ready to be a top-3 defender in the next 2-3 years. Are you okay with Maata moving up to the top pair and then making your 7/8 defensemen your 5/6 defensemen?

- jmatchett383


Criticism, yeah sure, I get that, everyone on that team deserves some criticism save for Sid and Guentzel. Kessel, Brassard, Geno, Letang, Schultz, Murray... perception among social media is that they need to trade him. That's the problem.
bird899
Joined: 07.01.2010

May 9 @ 11:17 AM ET
That's all stat geeks do post charts to go along with their agenda
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

May 9 @ 11:19 AM ET
@GalacticStone:

This season is probably the deepest this team has ever been and the last three seasons has been the longest stretch of consistent depth the Pens have had during the Crosby/Malkin era. Furthermore, Brian Dumoulin is the best consistent partner that Letang has had his entire career. I think Maatta is his all time best partner, but they don't get enough ice time together to be called a consistent pairing. Letang's issue isn't not being surrounded by enough talent.

Letang's issue is rust from last year's major injury. His production is still great, but he's no where close to the Noris level play he was at during 2016. Still, this sloppy version of Letang makes a night and day difference in our team's ability to fluidly transition from zone to zone. If you don't like analytics, all you need to have done to know this is a fact is watch our play style this season and compare it to last year's without Letang. His production despite his sloppy play, IMO, is a testament to just how great he is at pushing play and quarterbacking transitions.

Letang is headed towards the tail end of his prime, so it is probable that his best years are behind him. Also, his injury history makes it possible that he's in a legitimate state of decline and that this season is the new normal. But even if this is the new normal for Letang, he's still a major asset to this team who we'd have to replace if we ever became serious about moving on from him, and no, Justin Schultz can't be that guy. Betting on Letang to regain his overall form is where the smart money is, because even the worst case scenario that this is just who he is now is a net positive for the Penguins.
Thorny87
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Calgary, AB
Joined: 10.17.2014

May 9 @ 11:28 AM ET
Letang was also able to recover on most of his blunders before the injury. He could catch most players that had a stride or two on him. Not so much anymore.
Grinder47
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somerset, PA
Joined: 10.20.2013

May 9 @ 11:34 AM ET
The only thing I agree with Mr Wilson on. Plus letang makes up a 1/4 of the teams team toughness. Along with Malkin, Crosby and Oleksiak.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 9 @ 11:36 AM ET
You need to WATCH the game, please don't just throw charts and numbers for you argument, it's very lazy
- ClaudeFather

Where do you think the data magically comes from?
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 9 @ 11:38 AM ET
I think part of the issue is the inflated sense of Letang's abilities. For a long time, Letang benefited from playing on the best and most-stacked team in the NHL. Being surrounded by that level of talent allows a player to take risks and execute plays that would be unthinkable on a lesser team.

Flash forward some seasons and now the Pens are not as deep and their goaltending is a little iffier - this takes away some of that safety net that existed in prior seasons. As a result, Letang is coming back to Earth. He is a very good defenseman and perhaps one could label him as great or elite, but a part of his success was a product of the team itself.

The guy is human. He makes mistakes. It's not his fault the Caps won the series. Any team on the NHL would love to have Letang. I think part of the vitriol being directed against him is just general frustration from the fanbase - the Pens are a dynasty on an apparent slow decline, and the fans need a target for their frustrations.

- GalacticStone

lol
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 9 @ 11:39 AM ET
That's all stat geeks do post charts to go along with their agenda
- bird899

lol
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

May 9 @ 11:41 AM ET
The only thing I agree with Mr Wilson on. Plus letang makes up a 1/4 of the teams team toughness. Along with Malkin, Crosby and Oleksiak.
- Grinder47

I thought you hated Malkin.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

May 9 @ 11:41 AM ET
Carlson is an overrated power play specialist.
- Feds91Stammer

He really isn't
GalacticStone
Tampa Bay Lightning
Location: Supercharged engine powered by high octane butthurt
Joined: 01.29.2013

May 9 @ 11:42 AM ET
This was one of the deepest Pens teams since Letang has been on the roster... since 2007-08, this year's team has the 3rd most goals for per season behind 2016-17 and 2011-12. They got snake bitten in the playoffs, and Holtby played well.

This is a terrible analysis.

- j.boyd919

A portion of that depth recently arrived at the trade deadline.

Brassard, Sheahan, and Oleksiak were brought in during the past season. Sid and Geno are past their prime. Letang is hobbled. The goaltending tandem of Fleury-Murray was better than what they have now. Kunitz is gone. Rust and Guentzel have only recently fully blossomed.

So, maybe my analysis has holes in it, but I don't think it's "terrible". My point is still valid (IMO) - part of Letang's success was the team.
GalacticStone
Tampa Bay Lightning
Location: Supercharged engine powered by high octane butthurt
Joined: 01.29.2013

May 9 @ 11:44 AM ET
@GalacticStone:

This season is probably the deepest this team has ever been and the last three seasons has been the longest stretch of consistent depth the Pens have had during the Crosby/Malkin era. Furthermore, Brian Dumoulin is the best consistent partner that Letang has had his entire career. I think Maatta is his all time best partner, but they don't get enough ice time together to be called a consistent pairing. Letang's issue isn't not being surrounded by enough talent.

Letang's issue is rust from last year's major injury. His production is still great, but he's no where close to the Noris level play he was at during 2016. Still, this sloppy version of Letang makes a night and day difference in our team's ability to fluidly transition from zone to zone. If you don't like analytics, all you need to have done to know this is a fact is watch our play style this season and compare it to last year's without Letang. His production despite his sloppy play, IMO, is a testament to just how great he is at pushing play and quarterbacking transitions.

Letang is headed towards the tail end of his prime, so it is probable that his best years are behind him. Also, his injury history makes it possible that he's in a legitimate state of decline and that this season is the new normal. But even if this is the new normal for Letang, he's still a major asset to this team who we'd have to replace if we ever became serious about moving on from him, and no, Justin Schultz can't be that guy. Betting on Letang to regain his overall form is where the smart money is, because even the worst case scenario that this is just who he is now is a net positive for the Penguins.

- Victoro311


Agree with the majority of this. Letang has battled some serious injuries, and this may indeed be the new normal for him. Of course, Letang at 75% or even 60% is better than many defensemen, so it's not like he sucks or anything. It's likely past time to temper expectations for him.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 9 @ 11:46 AM ET
He really isn't
- YuenglingJagr

No?
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

May 9 @ 11:47 AM ET
A portion of that depth recently arrived at the trade deadline.

Brassard, Sheahan, and Oleksiak were brought in during the past season. Sid and Geno are past their prime. Letang is hobbled. The goaltending tandem of Fleury-Murray was better than what they have now. Kunitz is gone. Rust and Guentzel have only recently fully blossomed.

So, maybe my analysis has holes in it, but I don't think it's "terrible". My point is still valid (IMO) - part of Letang's success was the team.

- GalacticStone

Your points are almost always terrible and the ones that aren't are still generally bad.
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