Ryan Wilson
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Rochester, NY Joined: 06.13.2013
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TheSabresTaco
Buffalo Sabres |
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Location: For me. jack Eichel is bobby ryan….that's it. - Octavarium, NY Joined: 05.05.2011
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positivity like this is not tolerated on this website.
Good day, sir. |
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Thorny87
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Calgary, AB Joined: 10.17.2014
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The argument that, you see the mistakes more cause he has the puck more is not completely accurate. His play away from the puck is what's causing fans to lose their minds. He makes Pee wee level mistakes that have nothing to do with him handling the puck.
That being said he is the only D man we have that can make a pass out of our zone or skate it out if the pass is not there. |
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MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF Joined: 12.12.2014
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I agree with all of this RW.
Not one of Letang's major gaffes these playoffs were bailed by Murray..actually I think maybe one in the Philly series when he whiffed a pass right to the front of the net to a Philly player. |
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j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Tampa, FL Joined: 06.14.2011
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/end thread. |
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GalacticStone
Tampa Bay Lightning |
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Location: Supercharged engine powered by high octane butthurt Joined: 01.29.2013
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I think part of the issue is the inflated sense of Letang's abilities. For a long time, Letang benefited from playing on the best and most-stacked team in the NHL. Being surrounded by that level of talent allows a player to take risks and execute plays that would be unthinkable on a lesser team.
Flash forward some seasons and now the Pens are not as deep and their goaltending is a little iffier - this takes away some of that safety net that existed in prior seasons. As a result, Letang is coming back to Earth. He is a very good defenseman and perhaps one could label him as great or elite, but a part of his success was a product of the team itself.
The guy is human. He makes mistakes. It's not his fault the Caps won the series. Any team on the NHL would love to have Letang. I think part of the vitriol being directed against him is just general frustration from the fanbase - the Pens are a dynasty on an apparent slow decline, and the fans need a target for their frustrations.
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jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Newark, DE Joined: 03.09.2010
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RW is 100% right.
That being said, as the team's top defenseman, he should be able to be criticized by the fan base for his mental mistakes. It's not even bad plays with the puck as much as it's his bad positioning and decision making away from the puck, the Kuznetsov goal being a prime example.
Now THAT being said, what are you going to do if you trade him? Who's going to step in and do a better job for the same or less money? John Carlson, who I love, isn't any better. There's no one in the pipeline who looks like they're ready to be a top-3 defender in the next 2-3 years. Are you okay with Maata moving up to the top pair and then making your 7/8 defensemen your 5/6 defensemen? |
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Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings |
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Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC Joined: 02.01.2012
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Nope. They didn't win the cup. Blow it up. |
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Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings |
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Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC Joined: 02.01.2012
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RW is 100% right.
That being said, as the team's top defenseman, he should be able to be criticized by the fan base for his mental mistakes. It's not even bad plays with the puck as much as it's his bad positioning and decision making away from the puck, the Kuznetsov goal being a prime example.
Now THAT being said, what are you going to do if you trade him? Who's going to step in and do a better job for the same or less money? John Carlson, who I love, isn't any better. There's no one in the pipeline who looks like they're ready to be a top-3 defender in the next 2-3 years. Are you okay with Maata moving up to the top pair and then making your 7/8 defensemen your 5/6 defensemen? - jmatchett383
Carlson is an overrated power play specialist. |
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ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: west haven, CT Joined: 08.14.2015
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You need to WATCH the game, please don't just throw charts and numbers for you argument, it's very lazy |
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j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Tampa, FL Joined: 06.14.2011
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I think part of the issue is the inflated sense of Letang's abilities. For a long time, Letang benefited from playing on the best and most-stacked team in the NHL. Being surrounded by that level of talent allows a player to take risks and execute plays that would be unthinkable on a lesser team.
Flash forward some seasons and now the Pens are not as deep and their goaltending is a little iffier - this takes away some of that safety net that existed in prior seasons. As a result, Letang is coming back to Earth. He is a very good defenseman and perhaps one could label him as great or elite, but a part of his success was a product of the team itself.
The guy is human. He makes mistakes. It's not his fault the Caps won the series. Any team on the NHL would love to have Letang. I think part of the vitriol being directed against him is just general frustration from the fanbase - the Pens are a dynasty on an apparent slow decline, and the fans need a target for their frustrations. - GalacticStone
This was one of the deepest Pens teams since Letang has been on the roster... since 2007-08, this year's team has the 3rd most goals for per season behind 2016-17 and 2011-12. They got snake bitten in the playoffs, and Holtby played well.
This is a terrible analysis. |
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j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Tampa, FL Joined: 06.14.2011
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RW is 100% right.
That being said, as the team's top defenseman, he should be able to be criticized by the fan base for his mental mistakes. It's not even bad plays with the puck as much as it's his bad positioning and decision making away from the puck, the Kuznetsov goal being a prime example.
Now THAT being said, what are you going to do if you trade him? Who's going to step in and do a better job for the same or less money? John Carlson, who I love, isn't any better. There's no one in the pipeline who looks like they're ready to be a top-3 defender in the next 2-3 years. Are you okay with Maata moving up to the top pair and then making your 7/8 defensemen your 5/6 defensemen? - jmatchett383
Criticism, yeah sure, I get that, everyone on that team deserves some criticism save for Sid and Guentzel. Kessel, Brassard, Geno, Letang, Schultz, Murray... perception among social media is that they need to trade him. That's the problem. |
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That's all stat geeks do post charts to go along with their agenda |
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Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: San Diego, CA Joined: 06.17.2014
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@GalacticStone:
This season is probably the deepest this team has ever been and the last three seasons has been the longest stretch of consistent depth the Pens have had during the Crosby/Malkin era. Furthermore, Brian Dumoulin is the best consistent partner that Letang has had his entire career. I think Maatta is his all time best partner, but they don't get enough ice time together to be called a consistent pairing. Letang's issue isn't not being surrounded by enough talent.
Letang's issue is rust from last year's major injury. His production is still great, but he's no where close to the Noris level play he was at during 2016. Still, this sloppy version of Letang makes a night and day difference in our team's ability to fluidly transition from zone to zone. If you don't like analytics, all you need to have done to know this is a fact is watch our play style this season and compare it to last year's without Letang. His production despite his sloppy play, IMO, is a testament to just how great he is at pushing play and quarterbacking transitions.
Letang is headed towards the tail end of his prime, so it is probable that his best years are behind him. Also, his injury history makes it possible that he's in a legitimate state of decline and that this season is the new normal. But even if this is the new normal for Letang, he's still a major asset to this team who we'd have to replace if we ever became serious about moving on from him, and no, Justin Schultz can't be that guy. Betting on Letang to regain his overall form is where the smart money is, because even the worst case scenario that this is just who he is now is a net positive for the Penguins. |
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Thorny87
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Calgary, AB Joined: 10.17.2014
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Letang was also able to recover on most of his blunders before the injury. He could catch most players that had a stride or two on him. Not so much anymore. |
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Grinder47
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: Somerset, PA Joined: 10.20.2013
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The only thing I agree with Mr Wilson on. Plus letang makes up a 1/4 of the teams team toughness. Along with Malkin, Crosby and Oleksiak. |
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Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings |
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Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC Joined: 02.01.2012
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You need to WATCH the game, please don't just throw charts and numbers for you argument, it's very lazy - ClaudeFather
Where do you think the data magically comes from? |
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Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings |
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Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC Joined: 02.01.2012
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I think part of the issue is the inflated sense of Letang's abilities. For a long time, Letang benefited from playing on the best and most-stacked team in the NHL. Being surrounded by that level of talent allows a player to take risks and execute plays that would be unthinkable on a lesser team.
Flash forward some seasons and now the Pens are not as deep and their goaltending is a little iffier - this takes away some of that safety net that existed in prior seasons. As a result, Letang is coming back to Earth. He is a very good defenseman and perhaps one could label him as great or elite, but a part of his success was a product of the team itself.
The guy is human. He makes mistakes. It's not his fault the Caps won the series. Any team on the NHL would love to have Letang. I think part of the vitriol being directed against him is just general frustration from the fanbase - the Pens are a dynasty on an apparent slow decline, and the fans need a target for their frustrations. - GalacticStone
lol |
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Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings |
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Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC Joined: 02.01.2012
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That's all stat geeks do post charts to go along with their agenda - bird899
lol |
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Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins |
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Location: San Diego, CA Joined: 06.17.2014
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The only thing I agree with Mr Wilson on. Plus letang makes up a 1/4 of the teams team toughness. Along with Malkin, Crosby and Oleksiak. - Grinder47
I thought you hated Malkin. |
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YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: under the bridge Joined: 10.05.2015
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Carlson is an overrated power play specialist. - Feds91Stammer
He really isn't |
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GalacticStone
Tampa Bay Lightning |
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Location: Supercharged engine powered by high octane butthurt Joined: 01.29.2013
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This was one of the deepest Pens teams since Letang has been on the roster... since 2007-08, this year's team has the 3rd most goals for per season behind 2016-17 and 2011-12. They got snake bitten in the playoffs, and Holtby played well.
This is a terrible analysis. - j.boyd919
A portion of that depth recently arrived at the trade deadline.
Brassard, Sheahan, and Oleksiak were brought in during the past season. Sid and Geno are past their prime. Letang is hobbled. The goaltending tandem of Fleury-Murray was better than what they have now. Kunitz is gone. Rust and Guentzel have only recently fully blossomed.
So, maybe my analysis has holes in it, but I don't think it's "terrible". My point is still valid (IMO) - part of Letang's success was the team. |
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GalacticStone
Tampa Bay Lightning |
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Location: Supercharged engine powered by high octane butthurt Joined: 01.29.2013
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@GalacticStone:
This season is probably the deepest this team has ever been and the last three seasons has been the longest stretch of consistent depth the Pens have had during the Crosby/Malkin era. Furthermore, Brian Dumoulin is the best consistent partner that Letang has had his entire career. I think Maatta is his all time best partner, but they don't get enough ice time together to be called a consistent pairing. Letang's issue isn't not being surrounded by enough talent.
Letang's issue is rust from last year's major injury. His production is still great, but he's no where close to the Noris level play he was at during 2016. Still, this sloppy version of Letang makes a night and day difference in our team's ability to fluidly transition from zone to zone. If you don't like analytics, all you need to have done to know this is a fact is watch our play style this season and compare it to last year's without Letang. His production despite his sloppy play, IMO, is a testament to just how great he is at pushing play and quarterbacking transitions.
Letang is headed towards the tail end of his prime, so it is probable that his best years are behind him. Also, his injury history makes it possible that he's in a legitimate state of decline and that this season is the new normal. But even if this is the new normal for Letang, he's still a major asset to this team who we'd have to replace if we ever became serious about moving on from him, and no, Justin Schultz can't be that guy. Betting on Letang to regain his overall form is where the smart money is, because even the worst case scenario that this is just who he is now is a net positive for the Penguins. - Victoro311
Agree with the majority of this. Letang has battled some serious injuries, and this may indeed be the new normal for him. Of course, Letang at 75% or even 60% is better than many defensemen, so it's not like he sucks or anything. It's likely past time to temper expectations for him.
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Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings |
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Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC Joined: 02.01.2012
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He really isn't - YuenglingJagr
No? |
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Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings |
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Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC Joined: 02.01.2012
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A portion of that depth recently arrived at the trade deadline.
Brassard, Sheahan, and Oleksiak were brought in during the past season. Sid and Geno are past their prime. Letang is hobbled. The goaltending tandem of Fleury-Murray was better than what they have now. Kunitz is gone. Rust and Guentzel have only recently fully blossomed.
So, maybe my analysis has holes in it, but I don't think it's "terrible". My point is still valid (IMO) - part of Letang's success was the team. - GalacticStone
Your points are almost always terrible and the ones that aren't are still generally bad. |
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