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Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: A Worldly Event
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Hawkytalk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Frankfort, IL
Joined: 06.26.2012

May 3 @ 8:30 PM ET
So....the 2 rebuilds that resulted in cup wins don't count?
- PatShart


You're not serious. ...those were not rebuilds when your CORE 5 or 6 were in their prime. Adding Antoine Vermette was a simple move that took little thought....and Quenneville almost screwed that up by benching him.
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

May 3 @ 8:32 PM ET
I think Hillman makes the team out of camp. He looked pretty decent for a #5-type of d-man.

Forsling on the other hand is probably trade bait or continues to develop in the AHL. Way too uncomfortable on the defensive end and didn’t see enough offensively to warrant him deserving a longer leash. He’s still only 21.

My opinion on Gus is that I truly think that he has what it takes to be a valuable offensive player on the back end for the Hawks. I can easily see a 45-point season for him next year if he’s able to take that next step and earn more trust/responsibility from Q. This is going to be a very important offseason for him and I hope he can come to camp stronger and more confident. His shot from the point is arguably the best on the team at this point, even better than Seabs. Hope to see it more next season.

Keith - Seabrook
Goose - Top-4 addition
Hillman - Murphy
Rutta

I’d like Oesterle back in the AHL. Now that he’s had meaningful NHL experience, I want him to go back down and play very well down there and force the team to bring him back up. He was (in my mind) the worst d-man on the team last season. But his speed and skating ability gave me a little bit of hope as a back-end d-man one day.

- TommyHawk

I personally am rooting for Hillman or Gilbert (both?) to be dark horses in camp this fall and make the team like van Riemsdyk did when he broke in with the Hawks after college. It's a stretch but not out of reach.

My gut is that Forsling is a valuable trade chip this summer given his upside. If he stays, I do see him being a full-time starter in 2019-20 or possibly part way through the upcoming season. I think his fate may also be tied to who gets drafted this summer and whether Jokiharju signs.

As much as I like Gustafsson's offensive prowess, which is strong enough to turn in 40+ points if he's a regular, he really needs to improve significantly in his own end. I would still pair him with a stay-at-home partner to cover his butt given his riverboat gambling tendencies, yet, he needs to be more responsible too.

I also see potential in both Rutta and Oesterle to improve if they commit themselves to it, but not holding my breath either. Not holding my breath with Gustafsson as well. Of these 3, I have most faith in Rutta to improve defensively to where he can be trusted game in and game out.
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

May 3 @ 8:40 PM ET
I'd give them Forsling, DeBrincat OR Sikura, Anisimov (have to take that salary) and the Hossa contract
- PatShart

Assuming we could afford Karlsson's contract, I'd offer up Forsling, Anisimov, Hossa contract, and a mix of picks or other prospects. I would hold on to DeBrincat and Sikura (and Schmaltz for that matter). 12, 95, and 8 are the team's only top-6 talents in the forward youth corps. Saad, too, but he's got enough NHL experience to not be called young now at 26.
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

May 3 @ 8:44 PM ET
https://teamusa.usahockey...ational-team-staff-roster

Team USA captains are Kane with the C, Murphy and Larkin with the A's.
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

May 3 @ 8:53 PM ET
You're not serious. ...those were not rebuilds when your CORE 5 or 6 were in their prime. Adding Antoine Vermette was a simple move that took little thought....and Quenneville almost screwed that up by benching him.
- Hawkytalk


If I’ve done this correctly, the following are players not on the 2010 team that Stan brought in who contributed in important ways to the 2013-14-15 run:

Shaw
Saad
Smith
Leddy
Kruger
Stalberg
Frolik
Versteeg (on the rebound)
Raanta
Handzus
TT
Desjardins
Vermette
Richards
Darling

I think those adds show that Stan did what he had to do to get to a Cup-WCF-Cup.

Don’t like what he’s done since? Ok - but be fair - give him credit for the - yes, rebuild - after 2010-11-12.
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

May 3 @ 8:57 PM ET
I personally am rooting for Hillman or Gilbert (both?) to be dark horses in camp this fall and make the team like van Riemsdyk did when he broke in with the Hawks after college. It's a stretch but not out of reach.

My gut is that Forsling is a valuable trade chip this summer given his upside. If he stays, I do see him being a full-time starter in 2019-20 or possibly part way through the upcoming season. I think his fate may also be tied to who gets drafted this summer and whether Jokiharju signs.

As much as I like Gustafsson's offensive prowess, which is strong enough to turn in 40+ points if he's a regular, he really needs to improve significantly in his own end. I would still pair him with a stay-at-home partner to cover his butt given his riverboat gambling tendencies, yet, he needs to be more responsible too.

I also see potential in both Rutta and Oesterle to improve if they commit themselves to it, but not holding my breath either. Not holding my breath with Gustafsson as well. Of these 3, I have most faith in Rutta to improve defensively to where he can be trusted game in and game out.

- AEL_Fox


With Forsling i am concerned that he is not regressing or not practicing properly. Repitition time and again. Sometimes it takes years of this. Just yo react instantaneously movig the puck to the cotrrct place.

He is not playing the same way as he did in Chicago. Fifgerent system. I wonder how there could be modification to U Ssmuelson or even the methods and strategy Q has called for. Forsling is on a third pair in the playoffs. Has he stepped it up at all with push back even some checks? Who has watched the Icehogs closely in playoffs - your observations would be helpful in learning how Forsling has performed.

ALSO R U in favor of meeting J Johnson half way, a two year at $4.5 which is still more than he deserves. We need his game even if he is declining. This gives some balancecto the defense and buys more devlopment time for the kids.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

May 3 @ 9:12 PM ET
If I’ve done this correctly, the following are players not on the 2010 team that Stan brought in who contributed in important ways to the 2013-14-15 run:

Shaw
Saad
Smith
Leddy
Kruger
Stalberg
Frolik
Versteeg (on the rebound)
Raanta
Handzus
TT
Desjardins
Vermette
Richards
Darling

I think those adds show that Stan did what he had to do to get to a Cup-WCF-Cup.

Don’t like what he’s done since? Ok - but be fair - give him credit for the - yes, rebuild - after 2010-11-12.

- StLBravesFan


You forgot Oduya. But none of those players contributed anything to the 2 subsequent Cups...only the Core did.

It's only a "team game" when people who don't give Bowman any credit need to use it to make their case.
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

May 3 @ 9:17 PM ET
With Forsling i am concerned that he is not regressing or not practicing properly. Repitition time and again. Sometimes it takes years of this. Just yo react instantaneously movig the puck to the cotrrct place.

He is not playing the same way as he did in Chicago. Fifgerent system. I wonder how there could be modification to U Ssmuelson or even the methods and strategy Q has called for. Forsling is on a third pair in the playoffs. Has he stepped it up at all with push back even some checks? Who has watched the Icehogs closely in playoffs - your observations would be helpful in learning how Forsling has performed.

ALSO R U in favor of meeting J Johnson half way, a two year at $4.5 which is still more than he deserves. We need his game even if he is declining. This gives some balancecto the defense and buys more devlopment time for the kids.

- jhawk59

$4.5 for 2 years sounds more doable given that de Haan currently earns $3.3 and he would probably be seeking at least $4.0 for 4+ years. I'd much rather have de Haan, but if not and other options are not available, Johnson at $4.5 for 2 years isn't that bad.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

May 3 @ 9:30 PM ET
You forgot Oduya. But none of those players contributed anything to the 2 subsequent Cups...only the Core did.

It's only a "team game" when people who don't give Bowman any credit need to use it to make their case.

- HawkintheD


That’s a load of crap and you know it. I acknowledge Bowman made some solid moves for the 2013 team that was the best of the entire decade IMO. However, starting in 2014, Bowman has an awful track record. Not providing ANY quality 3rd pair Dmen that caused Q to play the Top 4 for 55+ minutes a game in the 2015 Cup Run which completely emptied the tanks of all 4 of those guys and they’ve never been close to that level again! The Hawks won in 2015 in spite of Bowman’s laughable 3rd pair of Rundblad and 41yr old blood clotted Kimmo Timmonen. Bowman’s 2016 addition in Ladd I liked, but Flieshmann and Weise were complete trash and he once again neglected the 3rd pair and it was Rundblad and another crap Dman forcing Q to play only 2 D pairs against STL. The greatest thing Bowman has ever done was find Artemi Panarin as a KHL UFA, and then he gave him away to remedy a previous mistake (trading Saad after 2015 which should’ve Never happened over $1 mil per year). What are your excuses for only drafting one quality NHL defenseman in 10 years (who he gifted to the Stars)? What are your excuses for 2017 playoffs? What are your excuses for 2018 last place in the division while 88 is still in his prime?

I’ll wait...
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

May 3 @ 9:31 PM ET
$4.5 for 2 years sounds more doable given that de Haan currently earns $3.3 and he would probably be seeking at least $4.0 for 4+ years. I'd much rather have de Haan, but if not and other options are not available, Johnson at $4.5 for 2 years isn't that bad.
- AEL_Fox


I am in favor of both guys and drafting Walhstrom. I know that Bowman has to get dmrn so i can understand drafting a premier guy. But are Dobson or Hughes really whom we want? Both have an issue. Dobson how good is his ceiling; Hughes his size
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

May 3 @ 9:37 PM ET
That’s a load of crap and you know it. I acknowledge Bowman made some solid moves for the 2013 team that was the best of the entire decade IMO. However, starting in 2014, Bowman has an awful track record. Not providing ANY quality 3rd pair Dmen that caused Q to play the Top 4 for 55+ minutes a game in the 2015 Cup Run which completely emptied the tanks of all 4 of those guys and they’ve never been close to that level again! The Hawks won in 2015 in spite of Bowman’s laughable 3rd pair of Rundblad and 41yr old blood clotted Kimmo Timmonen. Bowman’s 2016 addition in Ladd I liked, but Flieshmann and Weise were complete trash and he once again neglected the 3rd pair and it was Rundblad and another crap Dman forcing Q to play only 2 D pairs against STL. The greatest thing Bowman has ever done was find Artemi Panarin as a KHL UFA, and then he gave him away to remedy a previous mistake (trading Saad after 2015 which should’ve Never happened over $1 mil per year). What are your excuses for only drafting one quality NHL defenseman in 10 years (who he gifted to the Stars)? What are your excuses for 2017 playoffs? What are your excuses for 2018 last place in the division while 88 is still in his prime?

I’ll wait...

- EnzoD


You don’t have to wait - there ARE no excuses for the last three years. His moves since the last Cup have been mostly disastrous.

But to not give him any credit for the three previous years is absurd - or do you not think those players I referenced contributed?

One would think that with 3 Cups in 6 years, after a 49 year drought, that contributors would be celebrated.

Doesn’t fit the “fire him now” agenda, I guess.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

May 3 @ 9:46 PM ET
That’s a load of crap and you know it. I acknowledge Bowman made some solid moves for the 2013 team that was the best of the entire decade IMO. However, starting in 2014, Bowman has an awful track record. Not providing ANY quality 3rd pair Dmen that caused Q to play the Top 4 for 55+ minutes a game in the 2015 Cup Run which completely emptied the tanks of all 4 of those guys and they’ve never been close to that level again! The Hawks won in 2015 in spite of Bowman’s laughable 3rd pair of Rundblad and 41yr old blood clotted Kimmo Timmonen. Bowman’s 2016 addition in Ladd I liked, but Flieshmann and Weise were complete trash and he once again neglected the 3rd pair and it was Rundblad and another crap Dman forcing Q to play only 2 D pairs against STL. The greatest thing Bowman has ever done was find Artemi Panarin as a KHL UFA, and then he gave him away to remedy a previous mistake (trading Saad after 2015 which should’ve Never happened over $1 mil per year). What are your excuses for only drafting one quality NHL defenseman in 10 years (who he gifted to the Stars)? What are your excuses for 2017 playoffs? What are your excuses for 2018 last place in the division while 88 is still in his prime?

I’ll wait...

- EnzoD


Not at all and you know it.

I've acknowledged trades and signings I didn't care for and that he needs to start having more hits than misses.

Until this post when have you ever acknowledged he had a hand in anything other than inheriting some good players? It's the case you always make, no or do I have that wrong? I don't think so.

I'll wait for the denial just like the one where you claimed you never said Saad was better than Panarin...and then Darth produced your post. That was fun!




Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

May 3 @ 9:49 PM ET
I am in favor of both guys and drafting Walhstrom. I know that Bowman has to get dmrn so i can understand drafting a premier guy. But are Dobson or Hughes really whom we want? Both have an issue. Dobson how good is his ceiling; Hughes his size
- jhawk59

What would you rather do: spend $7-8MM or more on 2 defensemen like Johnson and de Haan or spend it on just one like Karlsson or Carlsson? The latter is less realistic to happen but you never know.

As for who I'd rather have, Wahlstrom or one of the D draftees, I'm leaning towards Wahlstrom. Honestly, I would be fine too if the Hawks select Bouchard, Dobson, or Boqvist if any of them are still available at the 8th spot. Not sold on Hughes. I like his offense and playmaking, but don't like his size and need to be sheltered. But if he projects to be like a mix between Barrie and Krug, then I like Hughes a lot more.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

May 3 @ 9:49 PM ET
You don’t have to wait - there ARE no excuses for the last three years. His moves since the last Cup have been mostly disastrous.

But to not give him any credit for the three previous years is absurd - or do you not think those players I referenced contributed?

One would think that with 3 Cups in 6 years, after a 49 year drought, that contributors would be celebrated.

Doesn’t fit the “fire him now” agenda, I guess.

- StLBravesFan


Loved Frolik, Shaw, Oduya, Emery and CO. He helped put together a record setting 2013 Cup team and we are all thankful for it. Both he and Q earned a mulligan for last year, but the trend with Bowman and this team does not inspire much confidence. Hopefully Stan proves me wrong over the next 12 months. We all want the Hawks to win, that’s why we’re fanatics posting on a blog in May. It is my opinion that Stan Bowman was unqualified from the beginning and his position is nepotism at its finest. Hawks need to get a former NHL player in charge IMO. Jets vs Preds is some great hockey. Go Jets!
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

May 3 @ 9:52 PM ET
Not at all and you know it.

I've acknowledged trades and signings I didn't care for and that he needs to start having more hits than misses.

Until this post when have you ever acknowledged he had a hand in anything other than inheriting some good players? It's the case you always make, no or do I have that wrong? I don't think so.

I'll wait for the denial just like the one where you claimed you never said Saad was better than Panarin...and then Darth produced your post. That was fun!

- HawkintheD



Bowman’s cumulative moves including trades, drafting, and contracts have tanked a once great team from 1st to Worst in a hurry. You don’t mind, apparently. There is no debate or opinion there. Just a statement of fact. Usually when you terribly fail at a job (which was to maintain a playoff team every year or at least a competitive team), you get shown the door. I’d expect Bowman/Q to be on the hot seat from Day 1 next year.
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

May 3 @ 10:14 PM ET
What would you rather do: spend $7-8MM or more on 2 defensemen like Johnson and de Haan or spend it on just one like Karlsson or Carlsson? The latter is less realistic to happen but you never know.

As for who I'd rather have, Wahlstrom or one of the D draftees, I'm leaning towards Wahlstrom. Honestly, I would be fine too if the Hawks select Bouchard, Dobson, or Boqvist if any of them are still available at the 8th spot. Not sold on Hughes. I like his offense and playmaking, but don't like his size and need to be sheltered. But if he projects to be like a mix between Barrie and Krug, then I like Hughes a lot more.

- AEL_Fox


Seems Barrie-s name mentioned as moving out but he sticks around. His shot has beat us.three times. He is weak defensively.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

May 3 @ 10:15 PM ET
Bowman’s cumulative moves including trades, drafting, and contracts have tanked a once great team from 1st to Worst in a hurry. You don’t mind, apparently. There is no debate or opinion there. Just a statement of fact. Usually when you terribly fail at a job (which was to maintain a playoff team every year or at least a competitive team), you get shown the door. I’d expect Bowman/Q to be on the hot seat from Day 1 next year.
- EnzoD


I think that's reasonable and I would expect that too.

I think it sucks that they've gone from first to worst but also recognize some of that comes with the territory of drafting at the end of the first round and subsequent rounds, going for it at the TDL the last several years, and having to pay up for winning.

Here's a statement of fact for you. They won 3 Cups in 6 seasons where they won 3 in their previous 80+. They didn't win any in the first 40 years of my fandom, so please forgive me for actually enjoying something I thought didn't seem very likely to happen the first time and then two more times in my lifetime. In the future I promise to piss and moan and get way more upset about things...like you.
dpard
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: My preferred gender pronoun is "Corn Pop"
Joined: 04.18.2011

May 3 @ 10:26 PM ET
That’s a load of crap and you know it. I acknowledge Bowman made some solid moves for the 2013 team that was the best of the entire decade IMO. However, starting in 2014, Bowman has an awful track record. Not providing ANY quality 3rd pair Dmen that caused Q to play the Top 4 for 55+ minutes a game in the 2015 Cup Run which completely emptied the tanks of all 4 of those guys and they’ve never been close to that level again! The Hawks won in 2015 in spite of Bowman’s laughable 3rd pair of Rundblad and 41yr old blood clotted Kimmo Timmonen. Bowman’s 2016 addition in Ladd I liked, but Flieshmann and Weise were complete trash and he once again neglected the 3rd pair and it was Rundblad and another crap Dman forcing Q to play only 2 D pairs against STL. The greatest thing Bowman has ever done was find Artemi Panarin as a KHL UFA, and then he gave him away to remedy a previous mistake (trading Saad after 2015 which should’ve Never happened over $1 mil per year). What are your excuses for only drafting one quality NHL defenseman in 10 years (who he gifted to the Stars)? What are your excuses for 2017 playoffs? What are your excuses for 2018 last place in the division while 88 is still in his prime?

I’ll wait...

- EnzoD

Wanna bet posting privileges on your 2018 prediction?
Didn't think so...
You're a (frank)ing moron who like to piss and moan about everything.....you gotta be a hoot around the house.
If you're so smart, why you slingin solar panels instead of NHL GM?
I'll wait....
dpard
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: My preferred gender pronoun is "Corn Pop"
Joined: 04.18.2011

May 3 @ 10:31 PM ET
Loved Frolik, Shaw, Oduya, Emery and CO. He helped put together a record setting 2013 Cup team and we are all thankful for it. Both he and Q earned a mulligan for last year, but the trend with Bowman and this team does not inspire much confidence. Hopefully Stan proves me wrong over the next 12 months. We all want the Hawks to win, that’s why we’re fanatics posting on a blog in May. It is my opinion that Stan Bowman was unqualified from the beginning and his position is nepotism at its finest. Hawks need to get a former NHL player in charge IMO. Jets vs Preds is some great hockey. Go Jets!
- EnzoD

Your opinion matters to you
And.....????
I'll wait
dpard
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: My preferred gender pronoun is "Corn Pop"
Joined: 04.18.2011

May 3 @ 10:39 PM ET
Loved Frolik, Shaw, Oduya, Emery and CO. He helped put together a record setting 2013 Cup team and we are all thankful for it. Both he and Q earned a mulligan for last year, but the trend with Bowman and this team does not inspire much confidence. Hopefully Stan proves me wrong over the next 12 months. We all want the Hawks to win, that’s why we’re fanatics posting on a blog in May. It is my opinion that Stan Bowman was unqualified from the beginning and his position is nepotism at its finest. Hawks need to get a former NHL player in charge IMO. Jets vs Preds is some great hockey. Go Jets!
- EnzoD

Remember when you said saad > panarin?
Good times
Sad!!!!
I'll wait
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

May 3 @ 10:44 PM ET
I think that's reasonable and I would expect that too.

I think it sucks that they've gone from first to worst but also recognize some of that comes with the territory of drafting at the end of the first round, going for it at the TDL the last several years, and having to pay up for winning.

Here's a statement of fact for you. They won 3 Cups in 6 seasons where they won 3 in their previous 80+. They didn't win any in the first 40 years of my fandom, so please forgive me for actually enjoying something I thought didn't seem very likely to happen the first time and then two more times in my lifetime. In the future I promise to piss and moan and get way more upset about things...like you.

- HawkintheD


I think Bowman got burned somewhat when he thought Murphy would come on better. What a surprise Q had part of the blame got.by jerking Murphy around. Toews and Kane contracts: suppose you were GM. You could have signed them for significantly less.?)

Now we shall see whether Bowman does add more push back, grit, toughness. And it is critical to win all the trades.
dpard
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: My preferred gender pronoun is "Corn Pop"
Joined: 04.18.2011

May 3 @ 10:46 PM ET
If I’ve done this correctly, the following are players not on the 2010 team that Stan brought in who contributed in important ways to the 2013-14-15 run:

Shaw
Saad
Smith
Leddy
Kruger
Stalberg
Frolik
Versteeg (on the rebound)
Raanta
Handzus
TT
Desjardins
Vermette
Richards
Darling

I think those adds show that Stan did what he had to do to get to a Cup-WCF-Cup.

Don’t like what he’s done since? Ok - but be fair - give him credit for the - yes, rebuild - after 2010-11-12.

- StLBravesFan

Rebuild??? Pffft....that list is just tweaking around the edges
ObeseOprah
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 01.17.2014

May 3 @ 10:53 PM ET
Dpard you should chill out. He was talking about this year’s 2018 last place finish, not predicting.
dpard
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: My preferred gender pronoun is "Corn Pop"
Joined: 04.18.2011

May 3 @ 10:55 PM ET
Over/under .......

How many times Enzo flag my posts?
Bookie in me says 25

I sure hope he doesn't threaten me with bodily harm again
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

May 3 @ 11:36 PM ET
Remember when you said saad > panarin?
Good times
Sad!!!!
I'll wait

- dpard


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