And the Calder. And the Hart. And 3 cups. Or were those undeserved?

I know, McDavid would have way more if if if...
- PatShart

Ya he won those cups by himself. The Calder? Who cares? McDavid deserved it not Panarin and Panarin said so too. The hart? He won one. That's great but I'll bet you that McDavid will win that award more times than Kane in his career. Kane is good. Not generational.

I don't get the argument that Kane made anyone he played with better either. Not one player he's ever played with had their career year on his line. He just always gets his own points.

I just want to add to the discussion about Kane’s greatness or lack thereof. I know we are a few years removed from playoff success, but in my mind a big part of Kane’s legacy as a great player is his body of work in the playoffs. He had so many epic moments in the Blackhawks run to 3 cups, and I think that “clutch gene” is what elevates Kane from good to great.

I don't get the argument that Kane made anyone he played with better either. Not one player he's ever played with had their career year on his line. He just always gets his own points.
- GPHawksfan

Ok then

Ok then
- PatShart

So? Who was it then?

So? Who was it then?
- GPHawksfan

Top of my head...what was Sharps highest total before Kane got there - and then after? Havlat?

Top of my head...what was Sharps highest total before Kane got there - and then after? Havlat?
- PatShart

Havlat played with Bolland and Ladd I believe. Sharps best years were with Toews and Hossa.

It takes dmen 250 -300 nhl games more often than not to turn the corner and become proficient in the difficult task of playing defense.

This is not an be all end all statement. A guideline to use which is more hope it turns out that way.

Can you imagine if this current set of Blackhawk dmen lasted that long. Crawford and others might need special treatment for the non support. Or poor support. Counseling, exhaustion, bandages from all the bruises and lumps facing so many prime scoring chances.

All that just to mention the curious case of one J Gardiner. He who seemed to turn the corner with a strong, promising effort last time the Bruins faced the Maple Leafs in the playoffs. He who once was the great skating U of Wisconsin dman who was going to bring defense to the woebegotten Maple Leaf

And by the way is Leddy 1) better skater and or 2) better defensively? Yes and yes or No and no?

Anyway five years later and Gardiner has not really been better - what about that 250 - 300 gp guideline?

But last game Babcock employed one J Gardiner 25:00 + TOI. So Gardiner does some things well is the point.

The floodgates opened as it is 3-2 after period one tonight. How has Gardiner looked tonight

How are all those third pair or worse Blackhawk dmen going to fare in their career?

I venture to guess some of them could become third pair and depth dmen around the league. But J Gardiner is a tad better than them.

Defense is a difficult position to be a good player, to master.

Zadina might better help Chicago sooner based on the things he can and does do in the scouting report. I just question if Tzachuk type - who has more nasty and is immoveable - is what we need first. We need more push back, more grit and we need probably two of them. And the sooner Toews looses more to his game, the sooner this franchise brings in a younger player and we start turning things around. Toews is just third line because he either has some erosion of talent or cannot be counted upon to compete physically in scrums, along boards in puck battles.etc al.
- jhawk59

Jay, why doesn’t Bowman just do what he has to do kind of like what Ryan Pace did last year and make it happen, that he can draft Brady TKACHUK, instead of all this comparison and pud pulling and all this other crap. If that is the kid that they like and I’m sure they have the resources to make it happen. Then Bowman should just do it.But I’m like a lot of other Blackhawk fans, right now I don’t trust Stan Bowman to do anything right.

So top 3 in pts...hes "over valued"?

And Crosby and Malkin have played together at times 5 in 5 but most often ion the PP

And you don't think that teams try to mach up vs Malkin and Sid gets an easier matchup? Or vice versa?

Where as teams know all they have to do is attempt to shut down Kane/who ever is on Kane's line
- PatShart

The only thing I'll add to all this is the Hawks have played in a much tougher division and western conference, east has been pretty weak for ther last10 years especially when it comes to team defense. So there's that and that even makes what McDavid is doing pretty special.

Generational or not, Hall of Fame for sure

Jay, why doesn’t Bowman just do what he has to do kind of like what Ryan Pace did last year and make it happen, that he can draft Brady TKACHUK, instead of all this comparison and pud pulling and all this other crap. If that is the kid that they like and I’m sure they have the resources to make it happen. Then Bowman should just do it.But I’m like a lot of other Blackhawk fans, right now I don’t trust Stan Bowman to do anything right.
- wonthecup10

Cost is maybe prohibitively high to move into top four.

What does each team drafting want more when their choice pops up? Because there is divergence in the way to go...skill, size, skating, what position? It is up for grabs. I just go with Tzachuk because we have to first get some nasty, push back, immoveable forwards. If drafting in same spot for another team, i probably consider others much more.

I want to say to go for the forward position; we have dmen prospects. But until some prospect breaks through on defense, you have to draft "D" first until a couple guys bring the quality of your blueline much higher than what we saw from our guys last season.

This appears to be the thinking - at least a major theme - when i broach the subject to wiz and others.

Now watch Bowman trade down for an extra pick and or a top four dman. He ruins the fun of seeing our grabbing a top prospect.

I wonder whos slower Seabrook or Chara, Chara looks like an ice sculpture on the ice.

The speed of the Leafs taking its toll, Bruins look old and slow

I really hope the next cba they change this playoff format. Here we are again 2 best teams playing one another in the 2nd round. The powers to be thought this wasa good idea, bunch of morons

I wonder whos slower Seabrook or Chara, Chara looks like an ice sculpture on the ice.

The speed of the Leafs taking its toll, Bruins look old and slow
- BetweenTheDots

Chara has reach though.

They don't have a team.of slugs. But Toronto is loaded up front. At centerice position. Even found room for Kapenan. I think Toronto can win it.

This beauty of a commentary on.Leafs thread:

I can't take another 20 minutes.
Our defense has been so awful
Darn Pollak, he's terrible
Nope, been alright this game
Gardiner has been worse tonight
He was having a good series, but not tonight

Relax. It isn't Todd Gill back there.

Why did the Bruins trade for Nash? No discipline

I really hope the next cba they change this playoff format. Here we are again 2 best teams playing one another in the 2nd round. The powers to be thought this wasa good idea, bunch of morons
- BetweenTheDots

So difficult after all the years to figure out the best playoff format.

So ...as for another afront to the fans and, really, the teams too --

Now Bruins tied it up, 4-4.
What happens next
Toronto scores. Or Boston puts one in.
Yet to see Marchand go off ...is THAT next

Cost is maybe prohibitively high to move into top four.

What does each team drafting want more when their choice pops up? Because there is divergence in the way to go...skill, size, skating, what position? It is up for grabs. I just go with Tzachuk because we have to first get some nasty, push back, immoveable forwards. If drafting in same spot for another team, i probably consider others much more.

I want to say to go for the forward position; we have dmen prospects. But until some prospect breaks through on defense, you have to draft "D" first until a couple guys bring the quality of your blueline much higher than what we saw from our guys last season.

This appears to be the thinking - at least a major theme - when i broach the subject to wiz and others.

Now watch Bowman trade down for an extra pick and or a top four dman. He ruins the fun of seeing our grabbing a top prospect.
- jhawk59

Jay, for me it’s him or bust, I love the kid because I was a big fan of his dads. I wanted his dad to be a blackhawk in the worst way, it almost happened twice, the first time Winnipeg match the offer, the second time when Phoenix was having a fire sale, as much as people throw him under the bus, it was Bill Wirtz that instructed Mike Smith to get it done at any cost. Mike Smith turned his ass up at Mr. Wirtz and ignored him, which was one of the reasons that eventually led to his firing. Among other things, then here comes St. Louis sliding right down the middle. That is a true story because I heard it right out of his mouth personally .I’m with you Stan Bowman is going to SHLIT this draft all up.

Why did the Bruins trade for Nash? No discipline
- BetweenTheDots

Just to confuse the announcers..Two .Nash names on roster.

Some Bruin fans questioned that trade, too.

I imagine Gardiner will not be a Leaf after this year, what a terrible defensive play, on top of a soft soft goal

I imagine Gardiner will not be a Leaf after this year, what a terrible defensive play, on top of a soft soft goal
- BetweenTheDots

Leafs craping the bed in 3rd period

Leafs craping the bed in 3rd period
- glennjpawlak22

The great Babcock? Hard to win when you have maybe 1 top 4 defenseman. Those forwards are crazy good but....

The great Babcock? Hard to win when you have maybe 1 top 4 defenseman. Those forwards are crazy good but....
- BetweenTheDots

Well, I agree with you there, and Mike Babcock loves Duncan Keith, let the rumors and speculation begin!

Enjoy Bruins, but would be very very very surprised if this team beats the bolts

I imagine Gardiner will not be a Leaf after this year, what a terrible defensive play, on top of a soft soft goal
- BetweenTheDots

yep....had the puck and stick right in front of him...decided to take the body to late; and a shot that never should have happened and never should have gotten past anderson cost the leafs the series...

anderson needed to play big but he played small and leafs are history again...

yep....had the puck and stick right in front of him...decided to take the body to late; and a shot that never should have happened and never should have gotten past anderson cost the leafs the series...

anderson needed to play big but he played small and leafs are history again...
- bogiedoc

Who was in goal 2015 ducks Hawks game 7? For the ducks 🦆