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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Game 3 Wrap: Penguins Down Flyers, 5-1
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MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 15 @ 9:16 PM ET
okay so let's ignore some comparable players and back up the brinks truck to a guy based on his past production

love Simmer but it is extremely unlikely he will live up to a 6x6 contract at age 31+

- Mordecai


Well is it okay to ignore the comparable players who have continued to produce well into their 30's?

I don't think it is as extremely unlikely as you think it is. I have no issue with anyone who thinks the Flyers should not take the risk and make a fair trade for younger players in the right deal to help extend the Flyers window. Perfectly reasonable. Just don't give me this nonsense that Knuble and Lucic didn't hold up well so neither will Simmonds.
ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: I like cold beverages, NJ
Joined: 04.09.2008

Apr 15 @ 9:16 PM ET


you could argue all 3 goals Grubauer has allowed in this game, he should have had.

Why did Trotz go with him over Holtby?

FreshFlyer
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 09.17.2011

Apr 15 @ 9:17 PM ET
I think the Flyers are going to make some big moves this off season. They are close to being a team that is going to be a contender for years. I see Simmonds getting traded for a 1st. Giving the Flyers 3 1st rounders this draft, and who knows if they are actually going to pick with all of them or make more trades. I also, wouldn't be surprised to see a big free agent signing happening as well.
Mordecai
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: not very poggers
Joined: 08.27.2015

Apr 15 @ 9:18 PM ET
Well is it okay to ignore the comparable players who have continued to produce well into their 30's?

I don't think it is as extremely unlikely as you think it is. I have no issue with anyone who thinks the Flyers should not take the risk and make a fair trade for younger players in the right deal to help extend the Flyers window. Perfectly reasonable. Just don't give me this nonsense that Knuble and Lucic didn't hold up well so neither will Simmonds.

- MJL

then list some comparables dude lol

so far i'm the only one providing any sort of examples here. i'm not out right telling you you're wrong, i'm saying that based on how Simmonds plays and how similar players played, their production typically drops off of a cliff sooner rather than later.

Lip_Out
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Kalamazoo, NT
Joined: 11.03.2017

Apr 15 @ 9:18 PM ET
You're clearly using hindsight here and expecting the Flyers to have clairvoyance in knowing that Simmonds would have a down year this season. If Simmonds can rebound and I believe he can, he will be worth that contract. I'm not saying there aren't merits to trading him also, but I don't agree with your statement. It's not based in the reality of the situation.
- MJL

FreshFlyer
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 09.17.2011

Apr 15 @ 9:18 PM ET
you could argue all 3 goals Grubauer has allowed in this game, he should have had.

Why did Trotz go with him over Holtby?


- ggunky


Holtby is a headcase apparently I have no actual answer for you to be honest. Trotz looks like he's coaching himself out of a job at the moment.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 15 @ 9:19 PM ET
My bad, didn’t mean sorry MJL in that manner. Said sorry since you were saying trading was a bad move or a ridiculous statement at last year’s draft. And have been in favor of bringing him back. Didn’t mean to put words in your mouth there 🤙🏻
- arichardson22


I didn't say trading him was a bad move either. The context of the conversation was another poster basically said trading Simmonds last year at the draft was a no brainer and they should've done it then.
wolfhounds
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: dicky seamus, PA
Joined: 06.02.2009

Apr 15 @ 9:20 PM ET
Simmonds isn't producing NOW. Move him back on to the 1st PP unit if that will get him going. Beyond that, it's all speculation.
SuperSchennBros
Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot!
Joined: 09.01.2012

Apr 15 @ 9:21 PM ET
Why do you do this
- Just5

1) I'm a noted moron

2) I actually never bring up Schenn first. Normally he's brought up to me as away to make fun of my user name and thing escalate. After all this there is a couple hour black out and when I come to, there are three brand new holes in the wall and a dead hooker...
ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: I like cold beverages, NJ
Joined: 04.09.2008

Apr 15 @ 9:22 PM ET
I didn't say trading him was a bad move either. The context of the conversation was another poster basically said trading Simmonds last year at the draft was a no brainer and they should've done it then.
- MJL


Obviously.

It was so easy to see that Simmonds trade value in the summer of 2017 was at its pinnacle.





FreshFlyer
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 09.17.2011

Apr 15 @ 9:22 PM ET
Simmonds isn't producing NOW. Move him back on to the 1st PP unit if that will get him going. Beyond that, it's all speculation.
- wolfhounds


I feel like Patrick is better than Simmonds in that spot though in a lot of facets. He may not screen the goalie as well as Simmonds, but he can tip shots in just as well if not better and he is a better puck handler and distributor of the puck from behind the net. I'd leave Patrick in that spot he deserves it.
ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: I like cold beverages, NJ
Joined: 04.09.2008

Apr 15 @ 9:22 PM ET
Holtby is a headcase apparently I have no actual answer for you to be honest. Trotz looks like he's coaching himself out of a job at the moment.
- FreshFlyer


It is mind blowing.

MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 15 @ 9:22 PM ET
then list some comparables dude lol

so far i'm the only one providing any sort of examples here. i'm not out right telling you you're wrong, i'm saying that based on how Simmonds plays and how similar players played, their production typically drops off of a cliff sooner rather than later.


- Mordecai


I don't need to list comparables unless you're telling me you think they don't exist, which I know you know that they do. We all know that statistically, players are exiting their prime at Simmonds age but there is a lot of noise there that clouds that. Tons of player in the history of the NHL have kept right on producing well into their 30's. The question is which one is Simmonds. That is the only question. I understand and don't disagree with those who want to explore a trade due to age and cap considerations.
ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: I like cold beverages, NJ
Joined: 04.09.2008

Apr 15 @ 9:24 PM ET
I don't need to list comparables unless you're telling me you think they don't exist, which I know you know that they do. We all know that statistically, players are exiting their prime at Simmonds age but there is a lot of noise there that clouds that. Tons of player in the history of the NHL have kept right on producing well into their 30's. The question is which one is Simmonds. That is the only question. I understand and don't disagree with those who want to explore a trade due to age and cap considerations.
- MJL



Then why have you continued this on for 6 pages???

arichardson22
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philly, PA
Joined: 06.10.2013

Apr 15 @ 9:25 PM ET
I think the Flyers are going to make some big moves this off season. They are close to being a team that is going to be a contender for years. I see Simmonds getting traded for a 1st. Giving the Flyers 3 1st rounders this draft, and who knows if they are actually going to pick with all of them or make more trades. I also, wouldn't be surprised to see a big free agent signing happening as well.
- FreshFlyer


Don’t get me wrong, big free agent signings are always exciting/fun, but I rather us spend the cap on more support guys than a lead guy. I think with G, Couts, Jake, TK, Lindblom, Patrick we have enough “top end” talent where we need the proper support guys to lift the weight off the listed players. I know a 3C will be a need with Filp departing and potentially even a defenseman when Manning is done and if even Gudas is traded. It’s really going to be an interesting offseason and I agree moves will be made. Hexy has a ton of ammunition heading into the draft and could even end up with more trading Simmonds, trading a 1st, or even trading a d-prospect (my least favorite if a move). I’m very curious out the D is going to look.

Ghost/Provy/Amac are locks, but if Hagg can’t even crack line up now and management was sour on the idea of Too many young d men, I highly doubt we see all of Morin, Sanheim, Hagg or Myers up next year so maybe on is moved or packed with another asset. A lot of possibilities, glad I’m not GM!
FreshFlyer
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 09.17.2011

Apr 15 @ 9:25 PM ET
It is mind blowing.
- ggunky


They should get Holtby in there to start the 3rd but what do I know If they lose this game with Grubauer in net you've gotta think they are going back to Holtby for the next game.
flyeredup85
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: ON
Joined: 04.05.2012

Apr 15 @ 9:25 PM ET
I think Hextall will trade Simmonds. He traded Hartnall even though he was a heart and soul guy who could score.Simmonds is a player who may earn 2 yrs of his new contract but will be a disappointing in his remaining 3 or 4.If Hextall is consistent Simmonds should be traded at the draft.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 15 @ 9:27 PM ET
I feel like Patrick is better than Simmonds in that spot though in a lot of facets. He may not screen the goalie as well as Simmonds, but he can tip shots in just as well if not better and he is a better puck handler and distributor of the puck from behind the net. I'd leave Patrick in that spot he deserves it.
- FreshFlyer


There is not enough of a track record to state that he tips in shots as well as Simmonds does. Patrick has 6 PP goals in his entire career. The Flyers have Giroux, Voracek, and Gostisbehere to distribute the puck. Need goal scorers on the PP and Simmonds has the best track record and has been one of the best net front forwards on the PP for a number of years.
bulet13
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Faceoffs, Plus/Minus, and PIMs...the Holy Trinity, TX
Joined: 03.10.2013

Apr 15 @ 9:27 PM ET
I don't need to list comparables unless you're telling me you think they don't exist, which I know you know that they do. We all know that statistically, players are exiting their prime at Simmonds age but there is a lot of noise there that clouds that. Tons of player in the history of the NHL have kept right on producing well into their 30's. The question is which one is Simmonds. That is the only question. I understand and don't disagree with those who want to explore a trade due to age and cap considerations.
- MJL


could you please post comparable power forwards who didnt decline dramatically after turning 31?
i really cant think of any so im curious. this is not an attack just wanna get info
SuperSchennBros
Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot!
Joined: 09.01.2012

Apr 15 @ 9:27 PM ET
I don't need to list comparables unless you're telling me you think they don't exist, which I know you know that they do. We all know that statistically, players are exiting their prime at Simmonds age but there is a lot of noise there that clouds that. Tons of player in the history of the NHL have kept right on producing well into their 30's. The question is which one is Simmonds. That is the only question. I understand and don't disagree with those who want to explore a trade due to age and cap considerations.
- MJL


Giroux_is_God and I had a quick debate about this over Zdeno Chara. Chara obviously isn't the same player he was five years ago but he still averages 22-23 minutes a game, he was a plus 22 this season, productive and an apartment building on skates. The other side of the argument was, he's old and not what he was.

We agreed to disagree but I still feel Chara is still an above average defenseman at age 41.

I'm sorry Giroux_is_god
Mordecai
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: not very poggers
Joined: 08.27.2015

Apr 15 @ 9:28 PM ET
I don't need to list comparables unless you're telling me you think they don't exist, which I know you know that they do. We all know that statistically, players are exiting their prime at Simmonds age but there is a lot of noise there that clouds that. Tons of player in the history of the NHL have kept right on producing well into their 30's. The question is which one is Simmonds. That is the only question. I understand and don't disagree with those who want to explore a trade due to age and cap considerations.
- MJL

then don't act like i'm being all unreasonable in the future lol

if you wanna dance then let's dance, don't tease me
arichardson22
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philly, PA
Joined: 06.10.2013

Apr 15 @ 9:28 PM ET
I think Hextall will trade Simmonds. He traded Hartnall even though he was a heart and soul guy who could score.Simmonds is a player who may earn 2 yrs of his new contract but will be a disappointing in his remaining 3 or 4.If Hextall is consistent Simmonds should be traded at the draft.
- flyeredup85



Hextall really hasn’t gone away from his word since taking over so I agree, he prob will be traded.
wolfhounds
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: dicky seamus, PA
Joined: 06.02.2009

Apr 15 @ 9:28 PM ET
I feel like Patrick is better than Simmonds in that spot though in a lot of facets. He may not screen the goalie as well as Simmonds, but he can tip shots in just as well if not better and he is a better puck handler and distributor of the puck from behind the net. I'd leave Patrick in that spot he deserves it.
- FreshFlyer


Agreed. But the PP was garbage tonight, so a change might help. And more importantly, I don't think moving Patrick off the top PP unit is going to impact him all that much but it might just get Simmonds going. At the very least, rotate them a time or two and see what happens. Not sure how much it could hurt.
ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: I like cold beverages, NJ
Joined: 04.09.2008

Apr 15 @ 9:28 PM ET
They should get Holtby in there to start the 3rd but what do I know If they lose this game with Grubauer in net you've gotta think they are going back to Holtby for the next game.
- FreshFlyer



I don't think Trotz can do that, that would be admitting a mistake, no?

MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Apr 15 @ 9:29 PM ET
Then why have you continued this on for 6 pages???


- ggunky


It seems as though you have a reading comprehension problem. There have been many statement made on Simmonds and many reasons given for trading Simmonds. If you would actually read what I've stated and followed along, you'd know that and that I agree with some, disagree with others. That is my right to state that. . If you're going to continue with the juvenile and ridiculous comments, I'm not interested in that.
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