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Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: Game #78
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powerenforcer
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheeling, IL
Joined: 09.24.2009

Mar 31 @ 4:05 PM ET
I think this is due to the personnel. Oesterle, Gustafson, Rutta and Forsling all play soft due to a lack of physical strength. Idk if that can be blamed on coaching. It's tough to play physical when you just don't have the strength to do so...
- EnzoD


It is the coaching scheme.....all the way.
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

Mar 31 @ 4:06 PM ET
I have no qualms with Bowman's record on forwards. But the reason the Hawks are in last place is due to the defense group and backup goaltending IMO.
- EnzoD

Blame can go all over starting at the top with wirtz then on down from there. To me most of the should lay at the feet of the gm he assembled the team and there so many glaring holes which i m not going get into take to long. The fact the hawks have hardly any goaltending depth and just last year decided it was time to address the lack of defensive depth is another black mark on bowman abd the scounting staff i will give bowman props for the foward side. So who replaces bowman as gm don't know some qualifications a new gm for the Blackhawks in my opinion are:

A former player that played in the league for a long time and was well respected throughout his career.
Has been a asst. Gm in winning organization for some time and has learned the ropes and ready to take the next step
Can identify talent and put together a good mix of youth and vets .

If I'm leaving anything out opionins are welcome
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

Mar 31 @ 4:11 PM ET
A former player who knows what it takes to win in the NHL and has a better eye for NHL defense-man. I will defer to the thorough analysis done on JJ's new website about Stan Bowman's track record with defenseman both via draft and trade/signing.
- EnzoD



Stan doesn't have the best track record with defensmen or goalies, although some of his recent defensemen draftees show promise, namely Jokiharju and Mitchell. Goaltending is obviously a concern, beyond Crawford there is really nobody waiting in the wings.

Good idea about a former player taking the reigns, but I'll ask again, who should that be? If you think Stan should be fired you must have a specific suggestion for his replacement.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Mar 31 @ 4:16 PM ET
Stan doesn't have the best track record with defensmen or goalies, although some of his recent defensemen draftees show promise, namely Jokiharju and Mitchell. Goaltending is obviously a concern, beyond Crawford there is really nobody waiting in the wings.

Good idea about a former player taking the reigns, but I'll ask again, who should that be? If you think Stan should be fired you must have a specific suggestion for his replacement.

- DarthKane


Scott Neidermeir? Chris Pronger? Paul Coffey? Mark Messier? Joel Quenneville
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

Mar 31 @ 4:18 PM ET
Stan doesn't have the best track record with defensmen or goalies, although some of his recent defensemen draftees show promise, namely Jokiharju and Mitchell. Goaltending is obviously a concern, beyond Crawford there is really nobody waiting in the wings.

Good idea about a former player taking the reigns, but I'll ask again, who should that be? If you think Stan should be fired you must have a specific suggestion for his replacement.

- DarthKane

Don't what Chris Chelios job title is with red wings if is still there but he could be a candidate probably could identify d men and the qualitys needed to make in the nhl. Dean Lombardi built a Stanley cup winner in L.A.
tvetter
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burkesville, KY
Joined: 12.16.2015

Mar 31 @ 4:34 PM ET
Stan doesn't have the best track record with defensmen or goalies, although some of his recent defensemen draftees show promise, namely Jokiharju and Mitchell. Goaltending is obviously a concern, beyond Crawford there is really nobody waiting in the wings.

Good idea about a former player taking the reigns, but I'll ask again, who should that be? If you think Stan should be fired you must have a specific suggestion for his replacement.

- DarthKane

I thought Hillman looked pretty good in his debut. Plus he signed TVR who was a solid 5/6. I think Delia has more promise than Forsberg or Berube (as a backup for now).
oldduffman
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.06.2013

Mar 31 @ 4:44 PM ET
I think this is due to the personnel. Oesterle, Gustafson, Rutta and Forsling all play soft due to a lack of physical strength. Idk if that can be blamed on coaching. It's tough to play physical when you just don't have the strength to do so...
- EnzoD

Q rained in Jhammer also ,he could hit when he wanted . Campbell also .
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

Mar 31 @ 4:53 PM ET
Q rained in Jhammer also ,he could hit when he wanted . Campbell also .
- oldduffman

Or the want to play physical remember the old saying not how big the dog is but how big the bite is in the dog.
gmurban
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Joined: 04.08.2008

Mar 31 @ 5:02 PM ET

A former player that played in the league for a long time and was well respected throughout his career.
Has been a asst. Gm in winning organization for some time and has learned the ropes and ready to take the next step
Can identify talent and put together a good mix of youth and vets .


- Scott1977



That describes another candidate on Hawks' short list . . . Norm MacIver. If passed over, don't be surprised to see him leave for a GM job elsewhere.
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Mar 31 @ 5:15 PM ET
Comparing Tallon to Bowman is not a realistic analysis. The GMs managed the team in different stages of their development - building vs winning. Depending in the current state a GM will approach their duties with different goals. Tallon didn't manage a championship team and Bowman hasn't managed a rebuilding team, although he might be doing that now. Most of the contributors to the Cups were drafted before or after Tallon, except the guys that were 1st and 3rd overall picks.

Plus, Tallon hasn't been able to replicate his success in Florida either.

I'm not saying Stan is the best GM out there, it might be time for him to go. But the whole Tallon vs Bowman argument doesn't make sense.

- DarthKane


All of f this for sure.

Plus - Tallon never had to generally manage while up against the cap every summer - he didn’t have to sell off to become cap compliant, didn’t have to limite his “hockey moves” because of it.
scott.jackson
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Georgian Bluffs, ON
Joined: 06.24.2014

Mar 31 @ 5:40 PM ET
All of f this for sure.

Plus - Tallon never had to generally manage while up against the cap every summer - he didn’t have to sell off to become cap compliant, didn’t have to limite his “hockey moves” because of it.

- StLBravesFan


A lot of this is his own doing. He never played hardball with any of the core. It's absurd that he not only gave them Max money but also NMC's. The only good deal of the bunch was Keith.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Mar 31 @ 6:29 PM ET
A lot of this is his own doing. He never played hardball with any of the core. It's absurd that he not only gave them Max money but also NMC's. The only good deal of the bunch was Keith.
- scott.jackson


Keith, Hossa, Hjallmarsson were all great value Cap Hits vs On Ice Performance. Again, I think if you had Chris Chelios staring Brent Seabrook, Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane in the eyes and said, "Listen, if you go for max cap hit this team will no longer be able to compete for Cups. We need you to take_____ on this next deal so we have a chance to keep winning." Stan Bowman has no locker room credit like a former NHL player would. Just look at Tampa. Steve Yzerman locked up arguably the NHL's best Dman for a VERY fair cap hit. same with Stamkos.
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

Mar 31 @ 6:41 PM ET
That describes another candidate on Hawks' short list . . . Norm MacIver. If passed over, don't be surprised to see him leave for a GM job elsewhere.
- gmurban

Yes i like to see what he can do wonder how much impact he has now and how involved he really is as a asst gm. I sure he has his own vision on what he like the hawks personnel would look like.
6628
Joined: 08.24.2009

Mar 31 @ 6:42 PM ET
Comparing Tallon to Bowman is not a realistic analysis. The GMs managed the team in different stages of their development - building vs winning. Depending in the current state a GM will approach their duties with different goals. Tallon didn't manage a championship team and Bowman hasn't managed a rebuilding team, although he might be doing that now. Most of the contributors to the Cups were drafted before or after Tallon, except the guys that were 1st and 3rd overall picks.

Plus, Tallon hasn't been able to replicate his success in Florida either.

I'm not saying Stan is the best GM out there, it might be time for him to go. But the whole Tallon vs Bowman argument doesn't make sense.

- DarthKane



AS my grandfather used to say, Hold The Phone.
Dale had Fla built for the playoffs the first time, then gets blown out by a computer geek who traded some of his guys. But he takes over again and now they might make the dance again this year. Seems to me they are havinig a better year than the hawks. And me thinks it's in part due to the coach he hired with an open mind who is not a stone age guy who's been around for a long time set in his ways.

And for the record I realize Tallon had higher picks than Bowman. Both had hits and both had misses. Has Tallon won 3 cups on his watch? No. Are the Panthers in better shape than the hawks at this moment? Might be. One thing Fla will never have is fans like the hawks do.
6628
Joined: 08.24.2009

Mar 31 @ 6:46 PM ET
Keith, Hossa, Hjallmarsson were all great value Cap Hits vs On Ice Performance. Again, I think if you had Chris Chelios staring Brent Seabrook, Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane in the eyes and said, "Listen, if you go for max cap hit this team will no longer be able to compete for Cups. We need you to take_____ on this next deal so we have a chance to keep winning." Stan Bowman has no locker room credit like a former NHL player would. Just look at Tampa. Steve Yzerman locked up arguably the NHL's best Dman for a VERY fair cap hit. same with Stamkos.
- EnzoD



Yzerman had the state tax ace in the hole with Stamkos. But he's done a great job. And how about the GM in your back yard and the pot he collected after the Duschene card game. They are scrapping for the playoffs.

Agree on the locker room cred, but not sure Chelios would be as respected by the other GM's as he would need to be in order to be successful. Love him, but he's a weasel and everyone knows it.
walleyeb1
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Petersburg, IL
Joined: 09.25.2014

Mar 31 @ 6:48 PM ET
Shaping up to be a good day Wings win, Canucks win in OT.
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Mar 31 @ 7:03 PM ET
Blame can go all over starting at the top with wirtz then on down from there. To me most of the should lay at the feet of the gm he assembled the team and there so many glaring holes which i m not going get into take to long. The fact the hawks have hardly any goaltending depth and just last year decided it was time to address the lack of defensive depth is another black mark on bowman abd the scounting staff i will give bowman props for the foward side. So who replaces bowman as gm don't know some qualifications a new gm for the Blackhawks in my opinion are:

A former player that played in the league for a long time and was well respected throughout his career.
Has been a asst. Gm in winning organization for some time and has learned the ropes and ready to take the next step
Can identify talent and put together a good mix of youth and vets .

If I'm leaving anything out opionins are welcome

- Scott1977


I get sick and tired of these blame Bowman critiques
. Sdure he made some bad moves. But he alkso cirrectly made the right csll on the core players and the issue of enough toughness - both critical in playoffs - and thus wsd done twice when salary cap plus rewarding players for Cup had to be managed correct. How msny other GM would have their own spin and traded one of the core?

Really should bookmark your view on the roster after Cup years.

Bowman is not going to be fired; McDonough is loyal to him. Coach Q might be let go but it woukd be dine in a classy way of his stepping down and finishing his contract with scouting work. This onky if he looses the riom, which is debatable if it actually ever happens. The team us going to imprive, more talent, although the record may not improve much for two seasons.

Bowman has already acknowledged that the team has to be tougher to play against. He alsi knew in a transition season that he had some dmen whom have to play, so as yo be seen and evaluated at the NHL. Next, one by one those deoth thurd pair type will be moved for draft picks.

I see some poor moves in the past but he will draft and rebuuld even if it is not done enturely to our satisfaction.
steve-hist-sdc
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 12.30.2016

Mar 31 @ 7:11 PM ET
Nail Yakupov
- EnzoD


Cam Barker?
Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Mar 31 @ 7:19 PM ET
That describes another candidate on Hawks' short list . . . Norm MacIver. If passed over, don't be surprised to see him leave for a GM job elsewhere.
- gmurban

I was thinking the same thing with Norm Maciver. In the slim chance that the Hawks change both the GM and Coach this summer and stay with internal candidates, I'd think Maciver and Don Granato are the leading choices.
pdx2ord
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Portland, OR
Joined: 09.02.2015

Mar 31 @ 7:21 PM ET
I have no qualms with Bowman's record on forwards. But the reason the Hawks are in last place is due to the defense group and backup goaltending IMO.
- EnzoD


So, are the scouts divided into those who specialize in each position? Is this a result of 1) limited good prospects in general in those two positions or 2) because the scouting staff is bad or 3) because Q and Bowman can't get on the same page about what is needed on D?

Do you think Q weighs in on who to draft or trade for during the discussions?
Goalie-33
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.01.2017

Mar 31 @ 7:23 PM ET
There's obviously hits and misses in each round, but Hartman was the 30th pick, Debrincat was 37th. Bowman's first round pick has worked out more often than not.
- tvetter




Hartman is a 4th liner all the way. And NASH has been using him like a 4th liner.

Now that ET has signed Hartman might not even be in lineup

Bowman should be first FIRED!!
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Mar 31 @ 7:24 PM ET
Keith, Hossa, Hjallmarsson were all great value Cap Hits vs On Ice Performance. Again, I think if you had Chris Chelios staring Brent Seabrook, Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane in the eyes and said, "Listen, if you go for max cap hit this team will no longer be able to compete for Cups. We need you to take_____ on this next deal so we have a chance to keep winning." Stan Bowman has no locker room credit like a former NHL player would. Just look at Tampa. Steve Yzerman locked up arguably the NHL's best Dman for a VERY fair cap hit. same with Stamkos.
- EnzoD

Stamkos and the rest of TBL have no Cups.

Toews and Kane had two when they signed, Seabrook had three.

Big difference.

And Seabrook’s contract issue is length - his hit isn’t bad for what he was when it was signed.

As far as all of the NMCs / NTCs - which stars in the league have signed contracts without them since the last lockout (or the one before that).

Had Toews and Seabrook not shown a precipitous decline, this team may have survived the transition to the next generation in much better shape.

Not to defend Bowman - those aren’t great contracts from a franchise and cap standpoint - as I’ve (and others have) suggested - this team is in rebuild mold, and I don’t think he is the one to generally manage one.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Mar 31 @ 8:31 PM ET
Stamkos and the rest of TBL have no Cups.

Toews and Kane had two when they signed, Seabrook had three.

Big difference.

And Seabrook’s contract issue is length - his hit isn’t bad for what he was when it was signed.

As far as all of the NMCs / NTCs - which stars in the league have signed contracts without them since the last lockout (or the one before that).

Had Toews and Seabrook not shown a precipitous decline, this team may have survived the transition to the next generation in much better shape.

Not to defend Bowman - those aren’t great contracts from a franchise and cap standpoint - as I’ve (and others have) suggested - this team is in rebuild mold, and I don’t think he is the one to generally manage one.

- StLBravesFan


The 3 Cups argument only proves my point. The Hawks have won zero cups since the matching $10.5mil cap hits became effective. Your comments on Stanley Cup wins only furthers my argument that Stanley Cup Championships are won by great TEAMS not by great INDIVIDUALS. Once those deals were signed, the Hawks could no longer afford to ice a Cup worthy team. Tell me where I'm wrong here?
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Mar 31 @ 8:47 PM ET
The 3 Cups argument only proves my point. The Hawks have won zero cups since the matching $10.5mil cap hits became effective. Your comments on Stanley Cup wins only furthers my argument that Stanley Cup Championships are won by great TEAMS not by great INDIVIDUALS. Once those deals were signed, the Hawks could no longer afford to ice a Cup worthy team. Tell me where I'm wrong here?
- EnzoD


I don’t particularly disagree - but tell me also how Stan could have NOT given the Twins $10.5 each:

(1) after two Cups
(2) given Toews outspokenness during the lockout - one of the more vocal players backing up Fehr - he would have strongly expected to be the highest paid player in the league
(3) if the give Toews $10.5, they have to give Kane the same
(4) the media hit in Chicago if they let the two Smythe winner approach - let alone get to - UFA status
(5) the cap was expected to increase much more than it did
(6) all my speculation, but I’m not sure there was much the suits could do to avoid those two contracts

Several $5-$6 contracts, but the issue with those isn’t the cap hit - did any of Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Crawford not deserve the cash (even if they didn’t deserve the length and movement restrictions)?

But - just some stream of consciousness thought from my fevered consciousness.
breadbag
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 11.30.2015

Mar 31 @ 9:00 PM ET
I don’t particularly disagree - but tell me also how Stan could have NOT given the Twins $10.5 each:

(1) after two Cups
(2) given Toews outspokenness during the lockout - one of the more vocal players backing up Fehr - he would have strongly expected to be the highest paid player in the league
(3) if the give Toews $10.5, they have to give Kane the same
(4) the media hit in Chicago if they let the two Smythe winner approach - let alone get to - UFA status
(5) the cap was expected to increase much more than it did
(6) all my speculation, but I’m not sure there was much the suits could do to avoid those two contracts

Several $5-$6 contracts, but the issue with those isn’t the cap hit - did any of Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Crawford not deserve the cash (even if they didn’t deserve the length and movement restrictions)?

But - just some stream of consciousness thought from my fevered consciousness.

- StLBravesFan


Good post man. I always thought the contracts were high but no question they had ways to back up the $$$ at the time. I don't think it was all Bowman on the Chicago side either when they were deciding how many millions to hand out. The nod to go ahead with that much money has to come down from the top and I don't think they will regret it when they look back and what Kane/Toews have done for the team in the grand scheme.
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