Have you seen him play as a Hawk?
- Z3Hawk

Toronto beer league defensemen > Oilers D depth

rutta, gustafsson, and oesterle are already in the "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" age bracket. they are as good as they ever will be defensively and that is definitely not good enough to play regular minutes above a third pairing. especially on a cup contending team. forsling still young, but i have players on my girls u-14 soccer team who are tougher than he is. no matter what they do with this guy he will always be pushed around in front of his own net. keith has declined from an elite #1 dman to a good/very good (if he has a real partner) #1 dman. they do not have a #2, #3, or #4 dman. seabrook was a warrior, but is deteriorating before our eyes. murphy can't skate well enough to be a top 4 dman, which makes him a player who is grossly overpaid and over extended on a contract for a third pairing guy. none of these college or juniors guys are going to be "250 game" guys for at least four years.

the best option for this team is to trade kane, toews, crawford and keith and start over. by the time the defense on this team is of a quality to compete on a cup contending team level those guys will be on the downslide as seabrook is now.

they are in nhl hell. just good enough to make the playoffs with crawford
and then to be bounced in the first round. not bad enough to get a draft pick where a toews, kane, or keith is available. and a gm who wasn't able to add to the core that talon as director of player development, assistant gm, and gm left in his lap. oduya is the only top four dman bowman has added in almost nine years at the helm. the only two stellar offensive players he has acquired, panarin and terraveinen, he wasn't able to keep because of the horrid contracts he has given to bickell, anisimov, kruger, panik, and seabrook.

it is time for the next version of the blackhawks. out with bowman and quenneville and in with a new vision. and it is also time for that quack mc donough to move over to director of sales, not president of the operation. they need a hockey guy at the top running things. let's see what a genius mc donough is if this slide continues. any idiot can sell seats to a wonderfully exciting team like the hawks have been. it won't be so easy with the current product. the aftermarket has collapsed. season ticket holders are getting killed on the tickets they can't use.
- hawks29

Tell it. I can't argue with much of this.

Have you seen him play as a Hawk?
- Z3Hawk

More than enough to realize that he is useful offensively at the NHL level and can hold his own. Needs to refine his edges defensively, but he, IMO will get there. You guys are crucifying him for mistakes that vet defenders make (I am aware of a gaff or two on his part that did cost you guys a game, but find me any legit, good NHL'r who hasn't made a mistake that cost a game, especially against top opposition, go on, I'll wait). Ease up. Learning the NHL game on the fly as a defender, especially since this is his first real shot, is a rough reach few can achieve.

Been trending upwards for 3 years now. First two in the AHL showed steady, yet good progress. Last season in the AHL was to me a realization that he could be a solid or a useful defender for us... especially with the Sekera injury.... until Chia let him go.

Been logging the most minutes as a Hawk defender not named Keith. Might be a lot for him, but he isn't making crucial mistakes on a daily basis as some would given those minutes.

Your biggest problems were trading away/letting lose of Panarin, Hjal, and TVR more than anything else.

More than enough to realize that he is useful offensively at the NHL level and can hold his own. Needs to refine his edges defensively, but he, IMO will get there. You guys are crucifying him for mistakes that vet defenders make (I am aware of a gaff or two on his part that did cost you guys the game, but find me any legit, good NHL'r who hasn't made a mistake that cost the game, especially against top opposition, go on, I'll wait). Ease up. Learning the NHL game on the fly as a defender, especially since this is his first real shot, is a rough reach few can achieve.

Been trending upwards for 3 years now. First two in the AHL showed steady, yet good progress. Last season in the AHL was to me a realization that he could be a solid or a useful defender for us... especially with the Sekera injury.... until Chia traded him.

Been logging the most minutes as a Hawk defender not named Keith. Might be a lot for him, but he isn't making crucial mistakes on a daily basis as some would given those minutes.

Your biggest problems were trading away/letting lose of Panarin, Hjal, and TVR more than anything else.
- EdmHockeyMan

Panarin hurt, but that deal still might work out for Chicago if Saad bounces back next year. TvR was a loss but not a big one, he would have been in Chicago's top 4 but he's not the next Keith or Seabrook. I don't think Hjalmarsson is as much of a loss. Sure, the Hammer of 5-6 years ago is a loss, but his play started to diminish and injuries are catching up. Don't get me wrong, the guy is a true warrior but I don't think he would have had a major impact on the team.

If you guys don't want Oesterle, we can take him back. In a heartbeat.
- EdmHockeyMan

We'll throw in Seabrook as a sweetener.

rutta, gustafsson, and oesterle are already in the "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" age bracket. they are as good as they ever will be defensively and that is definitely not good enough to play regular minutes above a third pairing. especially on a cup contending team. forsling still young, but i have players on my girls u-14 soccer team who are tougher than he is. no matter what they do with this guy he will always be pushed around in front of his own net. keith has declined from an elite #1 dman to a good/very good (if he has a real partner) #1 dman. they do not have a #2, #3, or #4 dman. seabrook was a warrior, but is deteriorating before our eyes. murphy can't skate well enough to be a top 4 dman, which makes him a player who is grossly overpaid and over extended on a contract for a third pairing guy. none of these college or juniors guys are going to be "250 game" guys for at least four years.

the best option for this team is to trade kane, toews, crawford and keith and start over. by the time the defense on this team is of a quality to compete on a cup contending team level those guys will be on the downslide as seabrook is now.

they are in nhl hell. just good enough to make the playoffs with crawford
and then to be bounced in the first round. not bad enough to get a draft pick where a toews, kane, or keith is available. and a gm who wasn't able to add to the core that talon as director of player development, assistant gm, and gm left in his lap. oduya is the only top four dman bowman has added in almost nine years at the helm. the only two stellar offensive players he has acquired, panarin and terraveinen, he wasn't able to keep because of the horrid contracts he has given to bickell, anisimov, kruger, panik, and seabrook.

it is time for the next version of the blackhawks. out with bowman and quenneville and in with a new vision. and it is also time for that quack mc donough to move over to director of sales, not president of the operation. they need a hockey guy at the top running things. let's see what a genius mc donough is if this slide continues. any idiot can sell seats to a wonderfully exciting team like the hawks have been. it won't be so easy with the current product. the aftermarket has collapsed. season ticket holders are getting killed on the tickets they can't use.
- hawks29

Good post. I agree with everything but trading Kane. Considering the work that he did with Schmaltz and Hartman this past Summer, he gets better every Summer, and it looks like he has matured, I say give him the C and a new coach who can work with young players and try to right the ship with a 2 year rebuild. Kane plays a contact adverse style that should keep him healthy for another 5 years.

Tell it. I can't argue with much of this.
- 6628

The Hawks are not trading Keith, Seabrook, Toews, Kane and Crawford. The only one of these players who may be involved in a major move is Crawford who may be placed on LTIR. This has been a disastrous season with unbelievably poor coaching. The team has actually operated stupidly as if nobody associated with it has had a clue. Easily correctable though.

The Hawks are not trading Keith, Seabrook, Toews, Kane and Crawford. The only one of these players who may be involved in a major move is Crawford who may be placed on LTIR. This has been a disastrous season with unbelievable poor coaching. The team has actually operated stupidly as if nobody associated with it has had a clue. Easily correctable though.
- Z3Hawk

- DarthKane

...and DeBrincat and Schmaltz and Saad...

The Hawks are not trading Keith, Seabrook, Toews, Kane and Crawford. The only one of these players who may be involved in a major move is Crawford who may be placed on LTIR. This has been a disastrous season with unbelievably poor coaching. The team has actually operated stupidly as if nobody associated with it has had a clue. Easily correctable though.
- Z3Hawk

I agree with hawk29. By the time they get a rebuild done the guys here now will be too old. They could haul in a fortune working those guys in deals. Now, do you trust them to rebuild properly is the question.

I agree with hawk29. By the time they get a rebuild done the guys here now will be too old. They could haul in a fortune working those guys in deals. Now, do you trust them to rebuild properly is the question.
- 6628

This year is a complete aberration. hawk29 is simply wrong on 2 fronts - 1. Can’t/Won’t happen and 2. Shouldn’t happen. Hawks will be fully back in the mix next year. If I knew for sure Q and Ulf are to be fired I would 100% guarantee it. [/img]

This year is a complete aberration. hawk29 is simply wrong on 2 fronts - 1. Can’t/Won’t happen and 2. Shouldn’t happen. Hawks will be fully back in the mix next year. If I knew for sure Q and Ulf are to be fired I would 100% guarantee it.
- Z3Hawk[/img]

No they won't.

This year is a complete aberration. hawk29 is simply wrong on 2 fronts - 1. Can’t/Won’t happen and 2. Shouldn’t happen. Hawks will be fully back in the mix next year. If I knew for sure Q and Ulf are to be fired I would 100% guarantee it.
- Z3Hawk[/img]

Want to bet actual money on this?

rutta, gustafsson, and oesterle are already in the "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" age bracket. they are as good as they ever will be defensively and that is definitely not good enough to play regular minutes above a third pairing. especially on a cup contending team. forsling still young, but i have players on my girls u-14 soccer team who are tougher than he is. no matter what they do with this guy he will always be pushed around in front of his own net. keith has declined from an elite #1 dman to a good/very good (if he has a real partner) #1 dman. they do not have a #2, #3, or #4 dman. seabrook was a warrior, but is deteriorating before our eyes. murphy can't skate well enough to be a top 4 dman, which makes him a player who is grossly overpaid and over extended on a contract for a third pairing guy. none of these college or juniors guys are going to be "250 game" guys for at least four years.

the best option for this team is to trade kane, toews, crawford and keith and start over. by the time the defense on this team is of a quality to compete on a cup contending team level those guys will be on the downslide as seabrook is now.

they are in nhl hell. just good enough to make the playoffs with crawford
and then to be bounced in the first round. not bad enough to get a draft pick where a toews, kane, or keith is available. and a gm who wasn't able to add to the core that talon as director of player development, assistant gm, and gm left in his lap. oduya is the only top four dman bowman has added in almost nine years at the helm. the only two stellar offensive players he has acquired, panarin and terraveinen, he wasn't able to keep because of the horrid contracts he has given to bickell, anisimov, kruger, panik, and seabrook.

it is time for the next version of the blackhawks. out with bowman and quenneville and in with a new vision. and it is also time for that quack mc donough to move over to director of sales, not president of the operation. they need a hockey guy at the top running things. let's see what a genius mc donough is if this slide continues. any idiot can sell seats to a wonderfully exciting team like the hawks have been. it won't be so easy with the current product. the aftermarket has collapsed. season ticket holders are getting killed on the tickets they can't use.
- hawks29

While i agree with a lot of this, to be fair it is popular to slash Bowman's tires but selective only good memory goes for Tallon.....If Tallon had not missed badly on Beach and Skille there could have been two more good players, maybe core completing nearly a decade with us. So tell me how Tallon would have kept the core together, not trading one of them. Or drafted better than Bowman.....who drafted A Babchuck - was that mike Smith? Tallon drafted, didn't draft.....tell you what, just google blackhawks #1 draft choices poke around a little ...there is a complete year -by -year break down. You can actually put pen to paper and count how many were drafted by M Smith too.

Also you cannot trade Kane. You need one star to bring in fans. One more bad year. Two good #1's this and one next year. Sikura please. A strong bottom six will emerge to complement some nice forwards already here. The big probems are on defense and maybe in goal. Hope some dmen they drafted can advance bit quicker- maybe. I keep preaching to keep an eye on Carlsson. We need a surprise or two to join up.

While i agree with a lot of this, to be fair it is popular todrglate Bowman's tires but srlective only good memory goes fpr Tallon..if Tallon had not missed badly on Beach and Skille there could have been two more good players, maybe core completing nearly a decade with us. Yell mr how Tallon would have kept the corr togethet, not trading one of them.who drafted A Babchuck - was that zm Smith? Tallon drafted, didn't draft.....trll you what, just google blackhawks #1 draft choices poke around a little ...there is a complete year -by -year break down. You can actually put pen to paper and count how many were drafted by M Smith too.
- jhawk59

Is English your first language? I see spelling mistakes on here often but you take the cake partner.

Is English your first language? I see spelling mistakes on here often but you take the cake partner.
- GPHawksfan

I usually get them right away. The darn auto correct. I'll be better. I corrected them already.

I usually get them right away. The darn auto correct. I'll be better. I corrected them already.
- jhawk59

It's not a big deal. I was just bustin' balls. But it does make it difficult to read your posts.

When I reflect on last night's game, if CC was in net we win. 2 5 hole goals should of been stopped. 1st PP goal Toews did a poor job of blocking. The young forwards like Jurco chasing the puck instead of being aware of where Pietro was last night to tie the game. Amazing how the little things are now costing the Hawks games instead of winning them.
- BetweenTheDots

Using same logic one can say if Tarasenko was playing Blues score more goals. Or if the refs did not gift our team the Blues goal that really crossed the line before Osterlie shoved it back under Berube.
So Tarasenko being out - Crawford out , evens out for both teams. Sorry this team is just not good to win and appears to be sliding down further next few years. Best thing to accept few years of misery and start getting good draft picks in hope to compete again in a few years.
I have NHL TV package and watched yesterday 3 hattricks - Karlson for Vegas, MacCinnon for Avs and Debrincat for Hawks. Among their teams, only Hawks could not hold the lead, wish we would spoil Blues their playoff chance. With Bishop going down to injury they might sneak past Stars. Avs and Vegas are fun to watch though, wish them the best.

Want to bet actual money on this?
- GPHawksfan

Sure.

Want to bet actual money on this?
- GPHawksfan

Has to be serious money though and we will need a signed contract to ensure you pay. I’ll draft it.

Stan Bowman sucks, that is all.

No they won't.
- BINGO!

Marty yes they will.

Stan Bowman sucks, that is all.
- EnzoD

Maybe if he had a coach that would make a attempt to work with him ,instead Coach QUP has little temper tantrums runs out of the room like the pro he is

Using same logic one can say if Tarasenko was playing Blues score more goals. Or if the refs did not gift our team the Blues goal that really crossed the line before Osterlie shoved it back under Berube.
So Tarasenko being out - Crawford out , evens out for both teams. Sorry this team is just not good to win and appears to be sliding down further next few years. Best thing to accept few years of misery and start getting good draft picks in hope to compete again in a few years.
I have NHL TV package and watched yesterday 3 hattricks - Karlson for Vegas, MacCinnon for Avs and Debrincat for Hawks. Among their teams, only Hawks could not hold the lead, wish we would spoil Blues their playoff chance. With Bishop going down to injury they might sneak past Stars. Avs and Vegas are fun to watch though, wish them the best.
- vshun

I guess we'll see next year, but to me this team is playing better, yes they have some games where its over after 30 minutes which happens with a young team, defenseman are a bit more consistent and not giving up 10 odd man breaks in a game anymore. Forwards are just off defensively in their positioning. Now if they learn how to attack the shadow defense exiting their own zone that would really be nice.

Has to be serious money though and we will need a signed contract to ensure you pay. I’ll draft it.
- Z3Hawk

I’ll hold the stake.

You can trust me....