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Forums :: Blog World :: Justin Lowe: What This Team Isn’t and What They Need To Be
Author Message
Matt Ross
Joined: 03.15.2013

Mar 5 @ 12:21 PM ET
I get it, we have tons of casual fans in STL. I still remember all the whining and outrage when we traded Brendan Shanahan for Chris Pronger. I mean they actually booed Pronger back in the day. Little did they know how great he'd be. They just see their favorite player go and are pissed.

Heck we still got that this year for trading freaking Ryan Reaves for a first round pick (Pit got ripped off on that one). Salary cap makes it hard for the average fan to understand trades for sure.

- cuethenoise


Did that deal send Shanahan to the Whalers?

Wow...I didn't realize Reaves was traded for a first round pick! What a great deal for you guys. I mean, that dude is one of the most intimidating guys in the league, but lacks heavily in other areas. You absolutely make that deal if someone offers you a first rounder. That's a no-brainer.
TrueGrit
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: FL
Joined: 07.19.2011

Mar 5 @ 12:21 PM ET
I thought he and Hull just didn't work.

To the other guy's point...I never remember reading or hearing Gretz wanted a trade from EDM. The Oiler GM was already building the trade before Wayne knew.

- Hank3Henshaw



This may be the hollywood twist on the story, but I do not believe it far from the truth.

At the time, Oil owner, Peter Pocklington, was an oil man and was hurting for cash.

McNall, LA owner, had cash and (arguably) the vision to see what putting 99 in that market and the impact it will/would have on hockey.

Can't be disputed, the growth of hockey gets most of its juice from this trade. Gretzky did not want to go, but knew it was part of his calling.

Austin Mathews, born and raised in Arizona. Ghostisbhere in Florida, Ryan Carpenter Florida, NHL'ers coming from Texas, California, etc...

Yes his wife was Janet Jones etc.... but all the growth dominoes started when 99 went to LA...


cuethenoise
St Louis Blues
Location: MO
Joined: 01.22.2013

Mar 5 @ 12:22 PM ET
I thought he and Hull just didn't work.

To the other guy's point...I never remember reading or hearing Gretz wanted a trade from EDM. The Oiler GM was already building the trade before Wayne knew.

- Hank3Henshaw


Gretzky was pretty good here 21 pts in 18 games and lead the Blues in the playoffs with 16 pts in 13 games. The story goes Keenan offered him 3 years in April basically a handshake deal. Then Keenan and 99 started fighting during the playoffs and Keenan then took away the offer. The rest was history.
BlazinMike
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 05.08.2013

Mar 5 @ 12:23 PM ET
What the hell are you talking about?

Why would Bettman force Vegas to eat salary?

Also the value of the league has increased almost tenfold in the last 20 years, so I doubt it's in danger of dying, especially considering all of that growth has occurred under Bettman.

- BINGO!


His tin foil supply has taken a hit with the new tariff.

don't mind him.
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Mar 5 @ 12:24 PM ET
Obviously you were not watching the TDL, were you? League nixes a trade, then magically Vegas gets involved in the trade, and pick up Reeves also. Perception is reality my friend.
- powerenforcer


They were involved from the start. The issue was the order in which the trades occurred. Brassard had to be traded to the Knights before they could absorb his salary. The way they initially had it set up had all three teams trading simultaneously, with only Brassard's cap hit and Reaves going to Vegas. That couldn't happen. They had to each make individual trades instead of it being a true three-way deal. That was the VERY WIDELY REPORTED sticking point
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Mar 5 @ 12:26 PM ET
His tin foil supply has taken a hit with the new tariff.

don't mind him.

- BlazinMike


cuethenoise
St Louis Blues
Location: MO
Joined: 01.22.2013

Mar 5 @ 12:27 PM ET
Did that deal send Shanahan to the Whalers?

Wow...I didn't realize Reaves was traded for a first round pick! What a great deal for you guys. I mean, that dude is one of the most intimidating guys in the league, but lacks heavily in other areas. You absolutely make that deal if someone offers you a first rounder. That's a no-brainer.

- Hank3Henshaw


Yep that is the one. Fans boo'd Prongs and threw garbage at him... it was crazy.

Yeah we fleeced the Pens at the draft. They wanted someone to "protect" Crosby. We picked Klim Kostin with the pick too. Who is one of the top 4 prospects in our System now (Thomas, Tompson, Kostin, and Kyrou). Fans loved Reaves though so they keep saying it was a terrible deal ha.
walleyeb1
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Petersburg, IL
Joined: 09.25.2014

Mar 5 @ 12:27 PM ET
There are still some on this board, and on Madison Ave., that think this season is an aberration. I tend not to sit in that camp. Even last season, when the Hawks led the Western Conference, there were trends that made me uncomfortable. We were a one-line team, without defensive depth, and Toews was carrying two bottom-six players on his wings. This season, we may have lost our elite goalie to a career-ending injury.

Assuming Chicago lands a top-five pick in the upcoming draft, that selection can only remedy one of our problems. This team does not seem to have the horses as presently constructed.

If you are a Cardinals fan, then you have seen that strategy work over and over again. Some on this board have suggested similar thoughts, but the main difficulty has been timing. Choosing when to undergo a nasty rebuild is tough, and it may require a regime change at the top.

- TexasHawk


It doesn’t bother me that some on this board think this but it really worries me to hear some in the FO think that.

On Crawford, the thought has crossed my mind. Began worrying about it when I watched him struggle with words/thoughts in that interview on the dessert trip.
Matt Ross
Joined: 03.15.2013

Mar 5 @ 12:27 PM ET
This may be the hollywood twist on the story, but I do not believe it far from the truth.

At the time, Oil owner, Peter Pocklington, was an oil man and was hurting for cash.

McNall, LA owner, had cash and (arguably) the vision to see what putting 99 in that market and the impact it will/would have on hockey.

Can't be disputed, the growth of hockey gets most of its juice from this trade. Gretzky did not want to go, but knew it was part of his calling.

Austin Mathews, born and raised in Arizona. Ghostisbhere in Florida, Ryan Carpenter Florida, NHL'ers coming from Texas, California, etc...

Yes his wife was Janet Jones etc.... but all the growth dominoes started when 99 went to LA...

- TrueGrit


Yea. That's kind of what they elude to in the King's Ransom documentary.

There's all those conspiracy theories that he went to LA because of his wife and a deal he made with Bettman to try and grow the game, blah, blah, blah...

Personally, I tend to believe what McNally said in the document when he said he was talking to Pocklington and was always asking about 99 and one day Pocklington was ready to seriously talk.

You're totally right about how much it helped grow the game.
Matt Ross
Joined: 03.15.2013

Mar 5 @ 12:30 PM ET
Yep that is the one. Fans boo'd Prongs and threw garbage at him... it was crazy.

Yeah we fleeced the Pens at the draft. They wanted someone to "protect" Crosby. We picked Klim Kostin with the pick too. Who is one of the top 4 prospects in our System now (Thomas, Tompson, Kostin, and Kyrou). Fans loved Reaves though so they keep saying it was a terrible deal ha.

- cuethenoise


Man...people are such idiots. Throwing garbage on a guy because he was part of a trade that sent someone you liked to a different team? Such stupid rationale. Haha.

I could see Reaves being a fan favorite. The tough/physical guys usually are.
67hawks
Joined: 08.30.2012

Mar 5 @ 12:31 PM ET
If any of Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabs, or Crawford were to suddenly retire; what would be the ramifications cap wise if any?

In Crawfords case, what if he's not able to return(God forbid)? I mean, does anyone really know for sure that he will be back next year? Would he be on career ending LTIR(i sincerely hope not), and how does that come into play? Thanks.

- BobP.


They are not going to leave that kind of money on the table by retiring. The best we can hope for is LTIR and/or inflation. By inflation, I mean a rising Cap combined with other teams handing out crazy salaries to their best players improving our relative positions.
tyweb69
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 07.02.2012

Mar 5 @ 12:32 PM ET
Did he ask for trades out of LA and STL?

Legit question.

- Hank3Henshaw


He was not traded from STL IIRC. He was a rental and then went to NYR via FA.
Matt Ross
Joined: 03.15.2013

Mar 5 @ 12:34 PM ET
He was not traded from STL IIRC. He was a rental and then went to NYR via FA.
- tyweb69


Ahhh...gotcha.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Mar 5 @ 12:36 PM ET
No you wouldn't you (frank)ing maniac. You'd have to be completely insane to trade away Jack Eichel for a 30 year old, $10.5 million Patrick Kane.
- BINGO!


Jack "High Ankle Sprain" Eichel at $10mil isn't looking so great right about now for the Sabres.
Rota's Rooter
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.23.2017

Mar 5 @ 12:36 PM ET
Reading some of the news today MTL placed 2 people on season ending IR.

Shouldn't the Blackhawks feed be overpopulated with:

Seabrook - Out 4-6 weeks Heart
Toews - Out 4-6 weeks Complications from Diet
Keith - Out 4-6 weeks Eye to Hand Coordination
Sharp - Out for the season - Wheels
Saad - Out 4-6 weeks Motor on M/T
Kane - Out for Season - for his protection
Jurco - Waived and sent to Indy

- riozzo

MTL trying real hard for a top 5 or top 3 spot in the lottery.
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Mar 5 @ 12:37 PM ET
Yep that is the one. Fans boo'd Prongs and threw garbage at him... it was crazy.

Yeah we fleeced the Pens at the draft. They wanted someone to "protect" Crosby. We picked Klim Kostin with the pick too. Who is one of the top 4 prospects in our System now (Thomas, Tompson, Kostin, and Kyrou). Fans loved Reaves though so they keep saying it was a terrible deal ha.

- cuethenoise


(frank)ing Shanahan...


Traded from the Blues to the Whalers for Chris Pronger in 1995.

Traded from the Whalers to the Red Wings in 1996.

Whalers turned Chris Pronger and Brian Glynn into Paul Coffey, Keith Primeau and a 1st (Nikos Tselios)
67hawks
Joined: 08.30.2012

Mar 5 @ 12:38 PM ET
It doesn’t bother me that some on this board think this but it really worries me to hear some in the FO think that.

On Crawford, the thought has crossed my mind. Began worrying about it when I watched him struggle with words/thoughts in that interview on the dessert trip.

- walleyeb1


We really need to be planning our future without Crawford in it. As long as he has been out without significant improvement is concerning.
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Mar 5 @ 12:38 PM ET
Jack "High Ankle Sprain" Eichel at $10mil isn't looking so great right about now for the Sabres.
- EnzoD


True enough, but he's still only 21 and extremely productive on one of the worst NHL rosters in the modern era.
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Mar 5 @ 12:39 PM ET
Toews dodging Marian Hossa calls and texts....Hossa wanting half of the 10mill salary...
- TrueGrit


Saad should be giving Hossa 50% of his salary, as well.
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Mar 5 @ 12:42 PM ET
We really need to be planning our future without Crawford in it. As long as he has been out without significant improvement is concerning.
- 67hawks


You guys want Darling back?
67hawks
Joined: 08.30.2012

Mar 5 @ 12:43 PM ET
MTL trying real hard for a top 5 or top 3 spot in the lottery.
- Rota's Rooter


I think that Montreal's situation is even a worse mess than ours. What a fall for that organization!
TexasHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 01.27.2017

Mar 5 @ 12:44 PM ET
MTL trying real hard for a top-5 or top-3 spot in the lottery.
- Rota's Rooter


That's a GM who is thinkin'!!

The lineup I'd like to see next season:

Saad - Toews - Kane
Anisimov - *new center* - Debrincat
Schmaltz - "new center* - Hino / Duclair
Highmore - Kampf - Hayden

Keith - Murphy
Seabrook - *Top Pick*
Forsling - Gustafsson / Rutta

Crow (even concussed he is better than our alternatives)
Forsberg

Maybe Duchene finally signs?
EnzoD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 02.19.2014

Mar 5 @ 12:45 PM ET
True enough, but he's still only 21 and extremely productive on one of the worst NHL rosters in the modern era.
- BINGO!


I agree with you there is no way that anyone trades Eichel for Kane as the whole reason the Sabres would want Kane is to play with Eichel. But Ristolainen + 1st + prospect sounds about right
Matt Ross
Joined: 03.15.2013

Mar 5 @ 12:45 PM ET
We really need to be planning our future without Crawford in it. As long as he has been out without significant improvement is concerning.
- 67hawks


Agreed.

But what's odd about the whole Crow thing is that we don't know exactly what's going on. It was Vertigo, then changed to post-concussion issues. I know those to two things are similar and go together, but then there's another rumor going around, too.

Seems odd that he just hasn't been placed on LTIR by now if it really was some kind of injury affecting the brain or some form of other serious/career-threatening injury.
-Doh-
Location: VA
Joined: 10.05.2015

Mar 5 @ 12:45 PM ET
It isn't.

When he was coaching in Charlotte what he was preaching was a system similar to to what Peters was doing in Raleigh. High pressure from the D with the wings responsible for covering for their respective D man when they pinch.

Center stays high on everything in the O zone and parks himself near his own net in the D zone to provide a real quick outlet for D engaged in board battles. Use the middle of the ice as much as possible.

- BINGO!


That may have been what he was preaching in Charlotte but there is no evidence of that in Chicago. It could be:
1) It takes more than a year to install.
2) The personnel is inadequate
3) Q is meddling
4) all of the above

But unless there is a very strong reason to believe that next season will be different (and we pretty much know Bowman and Q are staying and the roster of defensive players will not be too different) than something dramatic has to happen.

Also Charlotte was 15th out of 30 in goals allowed last year and 22nd out of 30 the year before. Not great.
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