On another note, Toews and Saad combined for 9 shots last night, MORE than any other center/wing combination. yet neither had a single point. It has been a lot like that much of the year, very snake bitten. These types of lulls do not last....I really think both will rebound big time next year.

That I don't know.

I thought Jenner was a more realistic return based on his season in CBJ. It seems he may need a change of scenery and he's that character type player the Hawks would love.
- Justin Lowe

Hartman AA franson to Columbus for jenner carlsson pick/prospect something along those lines then put crow on LTRI and take on a big expiring contract for picks and or prospects or would you sadd hartman for jenner anderson carlsson the AA to phily for sanhiem or morin

I agree with a lot of this, but the Defense is just not very good. Mostly bottom pairing guys. They gave up another 43 shots on goal last night. I think the Hawks need to find a LEGIT top 4, then your idea of slotting guys down into the proper spots may work. Keith is really the only top 4 we have left anymore. All the others are bottom paring guys at best.

That's not to say 1 may not have "potential" to be a Top 4 D-man one day, but right now they are not that.
- kwolf68

I wonder if moving AA for a top D prospect or legit #3-4 D is the way to go. The D core is paper thin with not much of note in Rockford ready to come up.

I wonder if moving AA for a top D prospect or legit #3-4 D is the way to go. The D core is paper thin with not much of note in Rockford ready to come up.
- z1990z

Nothing is in Rockford. Raddysh, Snug, etc...are bottom pairing at best. Jokiharu is probably our top D spec, but he's 2 years out.

So yea I think if moving AA must be done a D has to be coming back because our defense is awful. Constant odd man rushes, 40 shots on our goalies night in and night out. The names rumored from Philly (though that trade was ridiculous) and the names we've floated from Columbus make a lot of sense. Just a matter of it taking 2 to tango.

Yes, because we should be in a position now to hang up if the deal does not suit our needs. It is time now to take advantage of the other side as they have done to us in the past. There are 29 other teams to deal with.
- 67hawks

That is the way you and I may think but it has been proven that Stan is a terrible GM and every other GM in the league knows Stan is a terrible negotiator. He has gotten fleeced on 75-80% of the deals he has made. Even the hawks players agents know Stan and this front office does everything by committee and they will give in. ( Just look at every contract given 15-25% over ) So I do not have much confidence if the Hawks trade AA to Columbus, Philly or another team that the Hawks get a good deal.

I agree with a lot of this, but the Defense is just not very good. Mostly bottom pairing guys. They gave up another 43 shots on goal last night. I think the Hawks need to find a LEGIT top 4, then your idea of slotting guys down into the proper spots may work. Keith is really the only top 4 we have left anymore. All the others are bottom paring guys at best.

That's not to say 1 may not have "potential" to be a Top 4 D-man one day, but right now they are not that.
- kwolf68

If we add a top right side defender with Keith it is a pretty good top pairing. I think Rutta and Seabs are pretty good 2nd and 3rd pairing right side defenders. I am not sure about Murphy, Oesterle, Forsling, Gus or Dahlstrom. Some nights they show promise. Some nights they look lost. If I were the GM I would rank them:
#1 Forsling - still 21 years old - so hold him and let him develop at the Rock
#2 Murphy - physical stay at home - can play either side - 2nd or 3rd pairing
#3 Dahlstrom - I am intrigued by what I have seen of him so far. Only 23.
#4 Oesterle / Gus - a tie - both are 25. They can skate and move the puck, but I question if they will ever be good defenders.

On another note, Toews and Saad combined for 9 shots last night, MORE than any other center/wing combination. yet neither had a single point. It has been a lot like that much of the year, very snake bitten. These types of lulls do not last....I really think both will rebound big time next year.
- kwolf68

Saad looks like he is coming out of his funk. When he plays better Toews looks better. Wingels on that line seems to be giving it a little life.

Jurco just needs to go. If they cannot get anything for him at the TDL, he should go back to Rockford for the duration. I would much rather see Sharpie.

If we add a top right side defender with Keith it is a pretty good top pairing. I think Rutta and Seabs are pretty good 2nd and 3rd pairing right side defenders. I am not sure about Murphy, Oesterle, Forsling, Gus or Dahlstrom. Some nights they show promise. Some nights they look lost. If I were the GM I would rank them:
#1 Forsling - still 21 years old - so hold him and let in develop at the Rock
#2 Murphy - physical stay at home - can play either side - 2nd or 3rd pairing
#3 Dahlstrom - I am intrigued by what I have seen of him so far. Only 23.
#4 Oesterle / Gus - a tie - both are 25. They can skate and move the puck, but I question if they will ever be good defenders.
- -Doh-

Like you I want to see more of Dahlstrom. I did not like his game in pre-season last year, but from what I've seen this year I like the progress, though for a big guy he's as soft as a baby's ass. However, if he can maintain good gaps, play a strong stick and play with elite instincts he doesn't have to be Scott Stevens. I want to see more.

Gus needs seasoning yes I agree with you. Nice potential.

Osterle/Gus are 6/7 fodder, both major liabilities in their own zone.

Rutta has been up and down this year. I'd be willing to give him more time.

Murphy....hated him early, started to like him, then he got the doghouse treatment.

Seabrook...aging warrior, needs sheltering at this point of his career.

So I see NO 2nd pairing guys at all, and certainly no top pairing guys. Lots of suspects, prospects, and rejects. Aging warriors, questionable prospects or defensively challenged Dmen.

Too many variables at play to go into next season and expect a lot different results. Which is why I think we need a LEGIT top 4 force, then you have fewer holes to fill with what will invariably be mostly square pegs. But if 1 or 2 "make it" combined with Keith and our "new Top 4", then you may have a team that can compete.

Saad looks like he is coming out of his funk. When he plays better Toews looks better. Wingels on that line seems to be giving it a little life.

Jurco just needs to go. If they cannot get anything for him at the TDL, he should go back to Rockford for the duration. I would much rather see Sharpie.
- -Doh-

Agree. I wish Q would have just left Saad and Toews alone instead of jerking the lines around. Maybe they break their funk sooner and we're not talking being sellers. In watching them play of late it's clear they are good players and can drive this team, but for whatever reason they just are missing. I am 100% committed to going into next year with 19 and 20 as the focal point of our Line 1.

Last night showed how difference their is between the Pacific and the Central. As bad as they are playing if the Hawks were in the West they probably be in or very close to a playoff position. The Sharks, Kings, Flames and Ducks are no better than the Hawks. The bottom of their division is awful.

The CBJ fan obviously knows not of what he speaks. His age and term? The guy is 29 with 3 years left with an actual market value salary. Not debilitating at all. The only issues is the NTC attached to it, though I think AA would waive to go play with Columbus.
- kwolf68

No - I agree that AA's contract, in and of itself, is not bad $$ or necessarily term. But throw that into what we already have at that age & term does not work for me. I'd rather take Saad's contract for the same term, but $1.5MM /yr more, than AA's. Saad is essentially 5 yrs younger, with more upside, whereas AA will have declining return.

No - I agree that AA's contract, in and of itself, is not bad $$ or necessarily term. But throw that into what we already have at that age & term does not work for me. I'd rather take Saad's contract for the same term, but $1.5MM /yr more, than AA's. Saad is essentially 5 yrs younger, with more upside, whereas AA will have declining return.
- birdie03

Of course you'd rather have Saad and his cost relative to AA would be astronomical. I don't care that he is having a down year, the entire team is. I know what I see...the kid can play and next year he'll be back to producing big numbers, count on it.

The point with AA I want to make is CBJ is said to be the ones who inquired about him. That's YOUR franchise showing interest. It makes sense, he'd help the PK and PP for CBJ, he knows the team, they like him, he has good chemistry with your team's best offensive player. It's not a dumb idea. I guess it just depends on return, if AA would waive, etc.

Agree. I wish Q would have just left Saad and Toews alone instead of jerking the lines around. Maybe they break their funk sooner and we're not talking being sellers. In watching them play of late it's clear they are good players and can drive this team, but for whatever reason they just are missing. I am 100% committed to going into next year with 19 and 20 as the focal point of our Line 1.
- kwolf68

I agree. Wingels has given that line some life. But my guess is that today is his last game as a Hawk (this year). When he is traded I would think they try DuClair or DeBrincat.

Interesting side note - If you look at the Hockey Reference website it only lists Kane, Wingels and Debrincat as RW's on the Blackhawks. If you look at the Ice Hogs website they do not list any RW's (8 LW's and 5 C's)

I agree. Wingels has given that line some life. But my guess is that today is his last game as a Hawk (this year). When he is traded I would think they try DuClair or DeBrincat.

Interesting side note - If you look at the Hockey Reference website it only lists Kane, Wingels and Debrincat as RW's on the Blackhawks. If you look at the Ice Hogs website they do not list any RW's (8 LW's and 5 C's)
- -Doh-

I really like Wingels a lot. Not sure why he deserved the Press Box Prance this year, but Q is gonna Q. I don't think Wingels has quite the elite skill to play full time on Line 1, but his effort, moxie, skating ability, and just all out tenacity allow him to play a part on a top 6 line. I honestly would like to have him back in a bottom 6 role, but I understand a trade may happen.

If ADB could play solid RW I think he'd be a good fit with 19 and 20. I know some have talked about 12 with 8 and 88, but that line is way too smallish/soft...I think 8 and 88 need a big guy to open ice space. AA with them works for me, as long as he's here.

I really like Wingels a lot. Not sure why he deserved the Press Box Prance this year, but Q is gonna Q. I don't think Wingels has quite the elite skill to play full time on Line 1, but his effort, moxie, skating ability, and just all out tenacity allow him to play a part on a top 6 line. I honestly would like to have him back in a bottom 6 role, but I understand a trade may happen.

If ADB could play solid RW I think he'd be a good fit with 19 and 20. I know some have talked about 12 with 8 and 88, but that line is way too smallish/soft...I think 8 and 88 need a big guy to open ice space. AA with them works for me, as long as he's here.
- kwolf68

Wingels' best years came when he played on the top line in San Jose with Thornton and Marleau. His production took a big hit when he was skating fourth line/press box minutes both in San Jose and Ottawa.

He doesn't have the offensive skill set necessary to be a top-line (or top-six) player, but for whatever reason, as you alluded to, his effort/moxie/skating ability/tenacity helps his line mates at the top.

I wouldn't mind continue seeing:

Saad - Toews - Wingels
(revolving door) - (revolving door until AA is dealt) - Kane
DeBrincat - Schmaltz - Duclair
Vinny - Kampf - Hartman

Just some examples of team's we could help out by taking a high priced UFA who isn't doing much compared to their salary (allowing them to upgrade via trade)

Dallas - Kari Lehtonen - 5.9 Million- They could want to use that cap space for something else and he is UFA end of year.

Toronto - Leo Komarov - 3 Million - He isn't doing much this season, maybe the Leafs want cap space to upgrade.

Winnipeg - Toby Enström - 5.75 Million - playing 5 D minutes for nearly 6 million.

Calgary - Matt Stajan - 3.125 Million - Playing 4th line and has 7 points, maybe they see an opportunity to load up.

I'm sure there are other deals out there, but maybe there is a team wanting to take on Karlsson (with Bobby Ryan) from Ottawa and need to unload a piece Ottawa doesn't want to pay for. I'm sure there could be something don't on an expiring contract.
- breadbag

Add Joel Ward to the list - pending UFA - $3.28M and was just asked to give him no trade list.

I really like Wingels a lot. Not sure why he deserved the Press Box Prance this year, but Q is gonna Q. I don't think Wingels has quite the elite skill to play full time on Line 1, but his effort, moxie, skating ability, and just all out tenacity allow him to play a part on a top 6 line. I honestly would like to have him back in a bottom 6 role, but I understand a trade may happen.

If ADB could play solid RW I think he'd be a good fit with 19 and 20. I know some have talked about 12 with 8 and 88, but that line is way too smallish/soft...I think 8 and 88 need a big guy to open ice space. AA with them works for me, as long as he's here.
- kwolf68

I do not like Wingels on the Toews line indefinitely. But if he is not traded I would keep him there for while to see if they starting finding the back of the net. There is some life in that line now.

I like AA, Schmaltz and Kane. I do not really understand why people want to move AA so badly. The Hawks have no center depth. He is signed on a reasonable contract for his value and production. I am not saying do not trade him. But the return would have to be Hanzal or Brassard like to do the deal.

Columbus with 65 points is a buyer in a wild card spot.

The Hawks with 62 points are not even close to a playoff spot and are a seller. Is there something wrong with the playoff structure? Maybe wild cards should cross conferences? And maybe we are not as bad as we think we are.

Kane, Saad, Debrincat, Hartman, Hinostroza, Duclair, and Sikura all are best suited playing top 6 wing. Hawks have a surplus of offensive wingers and a severe lack of talented NHL ready young defenseman (and centers).

AA + Duclair + 2nd for Wennberg + Carlsson

I do not like Wingels on the Toews line indefinitely. But if he is not traded I would keep him there for while to see if they starting finding the back of the net. There is some life in that line now.

I like AA, Schmaltz and Kane. I do not really understand why people want to move AA so badly. The Hawks have no center depth. He is signed on a reasonable contract for his value and production. I am not saying do not trade him. But the return would have to be Hanzal or Brassard like to do the deal.
- -Doh-

Absolutely.

If the right deal isn't there, then simply don't take it. Doesn't make sense to move him for the sake of moving him.

Wingels' best years came when he played on the top line in San Jose with Thornton and Marleau. His production took a big hit when he was skating fourth line/press box minutes both in San Jose and Ottawa.

He doesn't have the offensive skill set necessary to be a top-line (or top-six) player, but for whatever reason, as you alluded to, his effort/moxie/skating ability/tenacity helps his line mates at the top.

I wouldn't mind continue seeing:

Saad - Toews - Wingels
(revolving door) - (revolving door until AA is dealt) - Kane
DeBrincat - Schmaltz - Duclair
Vinny - Kampf - Hartman
- TommyHawk

Honestly, I am such a huge fan of Tommy W, I'd love to try this out just to see how it meshes.

BTW-I do not like Vinnie on Line 4...I think he is proving quite capable of playing top 9. Vinnie/AA/Kane???

Kane, Saad, Debrincat, Hartman, Hinostroza, Duclair, and Sikura all are best suited playing top 6 wing. Hawks have a surplus of offensive wingers and a severe lack of talented NHL ready young defenseman (and centers).

AA + Duclair + 2nd for Wennberg + Carlsson
- EnzoD

They'd (Columbus) NEVER do this man. If Stan managed to pull something like this off they should erect his statue in front of the UC.

They'd (Columbus) NEVER do this man. If Stan managed to pull something like this off they should erect his statue in front of the UC.
- kwolf68

I still don't think Stan is going to to anything and say on Monday night, "We like our team, we like our youth, they are going to get better." And I may vomit on my TV screen

Sarcasm - nice. AA must be some player. Add unknown Sikura. Get not only young super-star D-Man Jones but Jenner too. Nice to dream.
- Z3Hawk

Ha! For sure. Throwing a guy's rights in on a trade was a thing for some and then goofed on by others (not me mind you). Just like that whole getting Vermette wasn't a good trade business. Sarcasm, love it! Nicely played.

I still don't think Stan is going to to anything and say on Monday night, "We like our team, we like our youth, they are going to get better." And I may vomit on my TV screen
- EnzoD

I expect Stan to get worked, but he's really never been in this position before, maybe this is his sweet spot (snagging prospects for veteran players)....until Monday we'll see.