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Forums :: Blog World :: HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Hotstove: Pacific Division Breakout Players
Author Message
ToddCordellVAN
Location: Barrie, ON
Joined: 09.04.2013

Sep 13 @ 11:53 AM ET
HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Hotstove: Pacific Division Breakout Players
PapaSquat
Florida Panthers
Location: NY
Joined: 06.02.2015

Sep 13 @ 11:55 AM ET
OEL 4 LYFE!

ALL ELSE IS N00BZ
mattmoulson
Buffalo Sabres
Location: WNY, NY
Joined: 06.14.2015

Sep 13 @ 11:58 AM ET
HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Hotstove: Pacific Division Breakout Players
- ToddCordellVAN


Let me guess Tanner/Oilers love fest
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Sep 13 @ 12:07 PM ET
"The scary thing about the Oilers - and I agree their D isn't great and their management is brutal - is that something like Draisaitl, Maroon and Puljujarvi will get to play (assuming a healthy lineup) against almost exclusively bad competition"

Quality of competition doesn't matter though.....right?
mdw7413
New York Rangers
Location: I would rather see a dudes hairy balls than his hairy feet-Jimbro
Joined: 12.13.2013

Sep 13 @ 12:09 PM ET
Vesey
tomburton99
New York Rangers
Location: NYR distrust, NJ
Joined: 07.13.2009

Sep 13 @ 12:13 PM ET
HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Hotstove: Pacific Division Breakout Players
- ToddCordellVAN

Yakupov? I feel like he's bound to play and people can finally say "Yes we were right!" Would have been more courageous to say Nurse
TheUltimateJet
Joined: 07.16.2013

Sep 13 @ 12:16 PM ET
Bo Horvat?
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Sep 13 @ 12:18 PM ET
"The scary thing about the Oilers - and I agree their D isn't great and their management is brutal - is that something like Draisaitl, Maroon and Puljujarvi will get to play (assuming a healthy lineup) against almost exclusively bad competition"

Quality of competition doesn't matter though.....right?

- sbroads24



Why be sarcastic when it's clear either I haven't explained it good enough or you don't know what you're talking about? Either way, you can just ask me to explain myself without acting like your mom forgot to pack you a lunch.

As I tried to explain, and have said easily over 100 times, the main reason quality of competition is irrelevant in most cases is that hockey is a fast game and lines are frequently mixed up and changed on the fly to the point where most players play every other player from every other team. Also, half the time, the opposing team gets to choose who you play against.

Futhermore, if you play high in the lineup, you tend to have better teammates and vice versa. In addition, the margins between players skill levels and abilities are much less than I think people generally assume.

So when it all breaks down, most players (over time) end up playing the same competition, and getting an edge is extremely hard and rare.

That doesn't mean you can' t get one sometimes. Quenville is a master of getting the easiest matchups for Kane and Phil Kessel had some fun against week competition last year.

When I say "Quality of Competition doesn't matter" it's because when you're arguing about two random players (Gardiner vs Rielly is a popular one) it really doesn't matter almost all of the time.
DDM-Coga
Colorado Avalanche
Location: If Chabot is not in the NHL, Ill revoke my account - AlfiesSald, AB
Joined: 07.24.2009

Sep 13 @ 12:18 PM ET
Vesey
- mdw7413


I wish I had Veseys girl....da da da duuuunnnnnn
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Sep 13 @ 12:19 PM ET
Yakupov? I feel like he's bound to play and people can finally say "Yes we were right!" Would have been more courageous to say Nurse
- tomburton99


Who cares about being courageous or trying to make a cool pick? I don't really know if I think Nurse will be all that successful of an NHL player. I do think Yakupov is going to score around 30 goals though, in which case, yes I will probably say that.
DDM-Coga
Colorado Avalanche
Location: If Chabot is not in the NHL, Ill revoke my account - AlfiesSald, AB
Joined: 07.24.2009

Sep 13 @ 12:21 PM ET
Who cares about being courageous or trying to make a cool pick? I don't really know if I think Nurse will be all that successful of an NHL player. I do think Yakupov is going to score around 30 goals though, in which case, yes I will probably say that.
- James_Tanner


Do you think Forest gump could be break out film of 2016?
Iggysbff
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Peter Chiarelli is a fking moron, Calgary, AB
Joined: 07.12.2012

Sep 13 @ 12:22 PM ET
I wish I had Veseys girl....da da da duuuunnnnnn
- DDM-Coga



*in best Tom Jones voice


Klefbom Klefbom, your my Klefbom...
And baby you can turn me on.
tomburton99
New York Rangers
Location: NYR distrust, NJ
Joined: 07.13.2009

Sep 13 @ 12:23 PM ET
Who cares about being courageous or trying to make a cool pick? I don't really know if I think Nurse will be all that successful of an NHL player. I do think Yakupov is going to score around 30 goals though, in which case, yes I will probably say that.
- James_Tanner

If the Oilers have success it will be because of Nurse, not because the Yakupov riding the coattails.
Flamin_Irishmin
Calgary Flames
Location: Victoria B.C., BC
Joined: 09.15.2015

Sep 13 @ 12:23 PM ET
Ouch... Haven't had your morning coffee yet Cogs?!...
Flamin_Irishmin
Calgary Flames
Location: Victoria B.C., BC
Joined: 09.15.2015

Sep 13 @ 12:26 PM ET
*in best Tom Jones voice


Klefbom Klefbom, your my Klefbom...
And baby you can turn me on.

- Iggysbff


And now you too Iggy?! Oh God, I'm going to have that friggin' song stuck in my head now for the rest of the day thanks to you guys
Iggysbff
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Peter Chiarelli is a fking moron, Calgary, AB
Joined: 07.12.2012

Sep 13 @ 12:28 PM ET
And now you too Iggy?! Oh God, I'm going to have that friggin' song stuck in my head now for the rest of the day thanks to you guys
- Flamin_Irishmin

Lol. What do you mean? Who else is doing it?

I started that a year ago
mdw7413
New York Rangers
Location: I would rather see a dudes hairy balls than his hairy feet-Jimbro
Joined: 12.13.2013

Sep 13 @ 12:29 PM ET
I wish I had Veseys girl....da da da duuuunnnnnn
- DDM-Coga

https://www.veseys.com/us.../learn/gallery/photo/7720
Iggysbff
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Peter Chiarelli is a fking moron, Calgary, AB
Joined: 07.12.2012

Sep 13 @ 12:29 PM ET
If the Oilers have success it will be because of Nurse, not because the Yakupov riding the coattails.
- tomburton99

The Oilers need far more players than just Nurse to be good to get anywhere this year...
DDM-Coga
Colorado Avalanche
Location: If Chabot is not in the NHL, Ill revoke my account - AlfiesSald, AB
Joined: 07.24.2009

Sep 13 @ 12:31 PM ET
And now you too Iggy?! Oh God, I'm going to have that friggin' song stuck in my head now for the rest of the day thanks to you guys
- Flamin_Irishmin


Here she comes now sayin' Mony Mony.....

Shoot 'em down turn around come on Mony

BigDre
Edmonton Oilers
Location: The only thing we win is a trophy for our captain who attends gay pride parades- Lahey, AB
Joined: 01.09.2012

Sep 13 @ 12:33 PM ET
Nurse is gonna be 3rd pair D this year...
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Sep 13 @ 12:36 PM ET
Why be sarcastic when it's clear either I haven't explained it good enough or you don't know what you're talking about? Either way, you can just ask me to explain myself without acting like your mom forgot to pack you a lunch.

As I tried to explain, and have said easily over 100 times, the main reason quality of competition is irrelevant in most cases is that hockey is a fast game and lines are frequently mixed up and changed on the fly to the point where most players play every other player from every other team. Also, half the time, the opposing team gets to choose who you play against.

Futhermore, if you play high in the lineup, you tend to have better teammates and vice versa. In addition, the margins between players skill levels and abilities are much less than I think people generally assume.

So when it all breaks down, most players (over time) end up playing the same competition, and getting an edge is extremely hard and rare.

That doesn't mean you can' t get one sometimes. Quenville is a master of getting the easiest matchups for Kane and Phil Kessel had some fun against week competition last year.

When I say "Quality of Competition doesn't matter" it's because when you're arguing about two random players (Gardiner vs Rielly is a popular one) it really doesn't matter almost all of the time.

- James_Tanner

Good god man, the hypocrisy is astounding with you.

How are Gardiner and Reilly "random" players? They are top 4 defenders on the same team. So I guess it's possible for one coach to play the matchup game with Draisaitl, but impossible that Jake Gardiner has been given favorable deployment, despite everyone and their mother who's ever watched (I know, watched is a no-no word) a Leafs game telling you that's the case.
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Sep 13 @ 12:44 PM ET
Good god man, the hypocrisy is astounding with you.

How are Gardiner and Reilly "random" players? They are top 4 defenders on the same team. So I guess it's possible for one coach to play the matchup game with Draisaitl, but impossible that Jake Gardiner has been given favorable deployment, despite everyone and their mother who's ever watched (I know, watched is a no-no word) a Leafs game telling you that's the case.

- sbroads24



As I have checked and checked again, last season Gardiner and Rielly played virtually the same competition.

And you have no counter argument, so you 're going full semantics? Obviously two players I use an example cannot be random, but that isn't even what I said!! It's almost impossible - I think - to give a top 4 defenseman favorable ice time.

How would that even work? You can start him in the O zone a lot, I guess, but even then it has to be a huge discrepancy to make even a small difference.

It's also really annoying to be called a hypocrite for trying to offer up a nuanced, non-black and white answer. You literally cannot win around here.
NugentHallberle
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Saskatoon, SK
Joined: 10.17.2013

Sep 13 @ 12:45 PM ET
Good god man, the hypocrisy is astounding with you.

How are Gardiner and Reilly "random" players? They are top 4 defenders on the same team. So I guess it's possible for one coach to play the matchup game with Draisaitl, but impossible that Jake Gardiner has been given favorable deployment, despite everyone and their mother who's ever watched (I know, watched is a no-no word) a Leafs game telling you that's the case.
- sbroad24



The guy is an idiot... HockeyBuzz should be embarrassed to employ this hack.

I'm of the mind they only do it because so many people come here to tell him how big of a drip he is...
Ross77
Joined: 11.21.2014

Sep 13 @ 12:49 PM ET
Draisaitl, Maroon and Puljujarvi will get to play (assuming a healthy lineup) against almost exclusively bad competition"


nothing against these three but I dont think other teams 3rd lines are going to be wetting their pants having to play against them.
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Sep 13 @ 12:50 PM ET
As I have checked and checked again, last season Gardiner and Rielly played virtually the same competition.

And you have no counter argument, so you 're going full semantics? Obviously two players I use an example cannot be random, but that isn't even what I said!! It's almost impossible - I think - to give a top 4 defenseman favorable ice time.

How would that even work? You can start him in the O zone a lot, I guess, but even then it has to be a huge discrepancy to make even a small difference.

It's also really annoying to be called a hypocrite for trying to offer up a nuanced, non-black and white answer. You literally cannot win around here.

- James_Tanner

So then, if it's imposible to give top 4 D favorable ice time, then in your opinion it is random, correct? So then wouldn't other teams facing the Oilers, randomly play there top D pairing against the Draisaitl line? So which is it?

The funny part is, I agree with you 100% about what you wrote about the Draisaitl line getting favorable matchups, problem is you never give credence to the fact that it could also be the case for players you like.
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