Bill Meltzer: Flyers-Stars Wrapup, Flyers Gameday: 10/21/15 @ BOS

I'd play Umberger & Schenn over Manning & White tomorrow.

I think they generated chances but just need to finish. Holding Dallas under 3 goals is pretty impressive. Before tonight they were averaging 4.4 GPG. .

As stated in last blog, not happy at the seeming ease Ruff was able to get good matchups for the Benn-Seguin line. They seemed to be out a lot against the Del Zotto-Manning pair and/or the 4th line. Learning curve, perhaps, but give all the factors: 5 days off, goalie making 1st start in ten days, facing a good Stars team with loads of firepower, it's a disappointing, but tolerable outcome.

Niemi had a great game, and deserves full credit.

Good time to have a short turnaround against a struggling Bruins team.

I'd play Umberger & Schenn tomorrow.

...
- Jsaquella

and not vinnie?

and not vinnie?

- Marc D

no he runs the coffe service in the press box

I agree Jsaq. I've been saying Schenn has no right to be benched over about half the d corps. Umby also should play over White. Coots and Schenn shouldn't have been split either imo.

I think Manning has looked awful. I understand MDZ matched against top pairs -- Chief did the same and with the roster makeup he's by default the best 5v5 d man. Why Manning is with him in that case has been and still is baffling. As bad as his possession stats are, he's looked awful even without consulting them. More than just the two goals -- his positioning tends to be off, in the zone he's a mess, and I honestly don't even see him contributing offensively. Unless Hak and Hexy are really trying to get a read on him to see if he's scrap heap material or not and whether they feel comfortable trading someone else and keeping him, I see no justification in playing him. Gulp. I'd take A Mac over him.

Regarding the 4th line, I'm beginning to wonder if Hak doesn't have a soft spot for them and he's actually OK with matching them up over their heads. He clearly trusts PEB and VDV more than anyone else on the PK, and in the first 4 games, they've actually led the team in quality of competition....

I agree Jsaq. I've been saying Schenn has no right to be benched over about half the d corps. Umby also should play over White. Coots and Schenn shouldn't have been split either imo.

I think Manning has looked awful. I understand MDZ matched against top pairs -- Chief did the same and with the roster makeup he's by default the best 5v5 d man. Why Manning is with him in that case has been and still is baffling. As bad as his possession stats are, he's looked awful even without consulting them. More than just the two goals -- his positioning tends to be off, in the zone he's a mess, and I honestly don't even see him contributing offensively. Unless Hak and Hexy are really trying to get a read on him to see if he's scrap heap material, I see no justification in playing him. Gulp. I'd take A Mac over him.

Regarding the 4th line, I'm beginning to wonder if Hak doesn't have a soft spot for them and he's actually OK with matching them up over their heads. He clearly trusts PEB and VDV more than anyone else on the PK, and in the first 4 games, they've actually led the team in quality of competition....
- Mononoke

I think this is what they are doing. It is a good year to try this, but the experiment may not last a whole lot longer

Schultz, Gudas and Manning also were not very good.

Manning's gaffs led to both goals, but they were all off their best tonight.

no he runs the coffe service in the press box
- Jsaquella

I cannot honestly see this lasting the whole year.
How many starting forwards have to get injured before he sniffs the ice?

I think this is what they are doing. It is a good year to try this, but the experiment may not last a whole lot longer

Schultz, Gudas and Manning also were not very good.

Manning's gaffs led to both goals, but they were all off their best tonight.
- Marc D

I'm evaluating him based on every game so far, not just the two gaffes. He looks to me like an AHL tweener 7th d man. Hakstol strikes me as super patient and wanting to see his ideas and his players given a fair shot before pulling the plug. In an experimental purgatory season, it's the right call. He's only coached 5 games with this group. But Manning is one experiment I feel like judgment can be made on already.

I'm evaluating him based on every game so far, not just the two gaffes. He looks to me like an AHL tweener 7th d man. Hakstol strikes me as super patient and wanting to see his ideas and his players given a fair shot before pulling the plug. In an experimental purgatory season, it's the right call. He's only coached 5 games with this group. But Manning is one experiment I feel like judgment can be made on already.
- Mononoke

It is hard to argue with this.

I said earlier Luke and even amac are better NHL players at the moment, salary/contract stuff put aside.

Still I am very much in favor of letting them try some guys this year and think they are doing the right thing giving Manning an extended trial.

I expect to see Ghost in the 2nd half and maybe with luck even Hagg and some others.

Missed the game so obviously take with a grain of salt.

Count me in as all in for giving guys like Manning the extended look. His case is a bit different as he perhaps doesnt have the hype of other prospects.

However in a rebuilding time those guys should get a longer leash, the ability to play through the learning curve.

There is no sense in my mind of playing Luke or MacDonald. Flyers know exactly what they have in those players, and it isn't good. Manning at the very least has a chance to grow and become better. Same goes for the other young kids who haven't tasted the NHL yet.

Any ice time taken by Luke, Umberger, MacDonald, LeCavalier is a waste. They will be out of the picture by the time this team is ready to establish itself.

It is hard to argue with this.

I said earlier Luke and even amac are better NHL players at the moment, salary/contract stuff put aside.

Still I am very much in favor of letting them try some guys this year and think they are doing the right thing giving Manning an extended trial.

I expect to see Ghost in the 2nd half and maybe with luck even Hagg and some others.
- Marc D

Here's the part that still makes no sense: Manning is being used as a second pairing d man in this "experiment." I can understand giving a look, but that's not giving a look -- that's giving significant responsibility. And right now he's not passing the eye test, stat test, or a 9th grade reading comprehension test on Animal Farm

Missed the game so obviously take with a grain of salt.

Count me in as all in for giving guys like Manning the extended look. His case is a bit different as he perhaps doesnt have the hype of other prospects.

However in a rebuilding time those guys should get a longer leash, the ability to play through the learning curve.

There is no sense in my mind of playing Luke or MacDonald. Flyers know exactly what they have in those players, and it isn't good. Manning at the very least has a chance to grow and become better. Same goes for the other young kids who haven't tasted the NHL yet.

Any ice time taken by Luke, Umberger, MacDonald, LeCavalier is a waste. They will be out of the picture by the time this team is ready to establish itself.
- flyer_nutter

I'm sorry, I just can't go with you on this.

I believe Brandon Manning deserves an opportunity, and yes, that means living with the mistakes that a rookie defenseman is going to make. And sometimes, those mistskes are gonna wind up in the net.

But at the same time, that doesn't mean Manning needs to play 82 consecutive games. The Nichuskin kid in Dallas, for example, got scratched recently. Same with the Slepyshev kid in Edmonton, and he got right back in after being scratched because of injury.

It doesn't have to be the extreme of "play Manning forever, and nothing else." I'm not a Schenn defender, and I understand the points you make about him. I don't think they are entirely incorrect.

But at the same time, this isn't Evaluation Camp. This is the NHL regular season, and the Flyers are in the business of winning hockey games, not serving as Brandon Manning's personal baptism by fire.

If he is helping them win, or not getting caved in, great. But if he is contributing to losses, it's ok for him to sit for a game or two so, again, the Flyers can honestly say they are trying to win hockey games. They have to try to do both, win and develop

I'm sorry, I just can't go with you on this.

I believe Brandon Manning deserves an opportunity, and yes, that means living with the mistakes that a rookie defenseman is going to make. And sometimes, those mistskes are gonna wind up in the net.

But at the same time, that doesn't mean Manning needs to play 82 consecutive games. The Nichuskin kid in Dallas, for example, got scratched recently. Same with the Slepyshev kid in Edmonton, and he got right back in after being scratched because of injury.

It doesn't have to be the extreme of "play Manning forever, and nothing else." I'm not a Schenn defender, and I understand the points you make about him. I don't think they are entirely incorrect.

But at the same time, this isn't Evaluation Camp. This is the NHL regular season, and the Flyers are I the business of winning hockey games, not serving as Brandon Manning's personal baptism by fire.

If he is helping them win, or not getting caved in, great. But if he is contributing to losses, it's ok for him to sit for a game or two so, again, the Flyers can honestly say they are trying to win hockey games. They have to try to do both, win and develop
- AllInForFlyers

Its all good, no worries here. Its tough for me to catch all the games with work as is, so what I have seen of the team is limited.

I completely agree with sitting a guy here and there, its just hard for me to agree when the alternative is Luke or MacDonald. I'm not even saying they wont play better than Manning, I just dont think they have a rats ass chance at helping the team win a cup a few years down the line.

I think people would be more hesitant to a benching if it was Provorov or Morin. Manning shouldn't be cast aside simply because he doesnt have the hype. That foundation of giving your unproven prospects room to develop needs to be implemented imo. Instead of playing trash that you know isnt going to improve.

Not sure if us clamoring for Umberger and LSchenn to be in the lineup is a testament to those guys turning their games around or a damning statement towards the rest of our roster.

Not sure if us clamoring for Umberger and LSchenn to be in the lineup is a testament to those guys turning their games around or a damning statement towards the rest of our roster.
- hereticpride

Probably some of both, tbh

Schenn didn't deserve the hook he got, I felt, and Umberger still plays the right way, especially at ES, if healthy

Like I was saying, it doesn't have to be forever if they are ineffective. But with a back to back, might be time to give them a look

I'd play Umberger & Schenn over Manning & White tomorrow.

I think they generated chances but just need to finish. Holding Dallas under 3 goals is pretty impressive. Before tonight they were averaging 4.4 GPG. .

As stated in last blog, not happy at the seeming ease Ruff was able to get good matchups for the Benn-Seguin line. They seemed to be out a lot against the Del Zotto-Manning pair and/or the 4th line. Learning curve, perhaps, but give all the factors: 5 days off, goalie making 1st start in ten days, facing a good Stars team with loads of firepower, it's a disappointing, but tolerable outcome.

Niemi had a great game, and deserves full credit.

Good time to have a short turnaround against a struggling Bruins team.
- Jsaquella

Manning was brutal tonight and made many fringe NHL player mistakes
I'm done with Raffl on the top line he doesn't do anything give Gagner a shot

Not sure if us clamoring for Umberger and LSchenn to be in the lineup is a testament to those guys turning their games around or a damning statement towards the rest of our roster.
- hereticpride

To be fair, quite a few of us have been singing this tune since preseason

Manning was brutal tonight and made many fringe NHL player mistakes
I'm done with Raffl on the top line he doesn't do anything give Gagner a shot
- 2Real

I agree that Gagner should be given a chance at some point but Raffle certainly isn't useless. The line created chance after chance last night and looked great. I'm sure it is even more frustrating for them, then you, to not put it in the back of the net but it will come. As for Manning, yes I thought he had a poor game and would welcome Schenn in his place tonight. As for Umby I would like to see him in for White as has been said by many others. He is a third line player and putting him on the fourth line adds a lot of depth and a replacement in case of injury or pulling a Simmonds (benched by the coach).

I am not at all surprised by the loss, if honest I was expecting a 5-2 loss or similar and was pleased with the effort. DAL is a better team IMHO. As for tonight, we should win this one. BOS looks terrible this year and I expect them to be picking in the top 10 at the draft. Of course, we might be too.

As for the talk of trading Striet yesterday to CJB. Yes, but you need two teams to make a trade and there is NO way they are trading their 1st plus another 1st. If they offered their first this year I would melt with ecstatic orgasmic pleasure as it could very well be top 3. I don't see it happening and while I have written it before I will write it again- LW prospect Kerby Rychel is my target. Kid has speed, ok size, good hands and plays rough. I would trade any D man on the roster for him right now (maybe not Medvedev as he could potentially bring back ore at the TD). He won't be ready until next year (and will be 22 years old) but that is fine, we don't need him right now.
http://bluejackets.nhl.co...lub/player.htm?id=8477510

The problem with a guy like Gagner is that if he's not generating offense, he's useless. I have no problem sitting him for Umberger. Also, while I get the point Nutter made earlier, I don't think Manning will be here when they are contending for a Cup, so I have no prob with L Schenn getting back in the lineup too. If he doesn't play well he comes right back out , and, if he does play well, maybe you can move him for something decent.

Tough game last night, just beat by a better team. Not a bad effort though. The PP just isn't coming through for them and ES goals are hard to come by.

I wonder if Manning played himself out of the starting lineup?

Time for another bounce-back game against da f'n Broons.

Missed the game so obviously take with a grain of salt.

Count me in as all in for giving guys like Manning the extended look. His case is a bit different as he perhaps doesnt have the hype of other prospects.

However in a rebuilding time those guys should get a longer leash, the ability to play through the learning curve.

There is no sense in my mind of playing Luke or MacDonald. Flyers know exactly what they have in those players, and it isn't good. Manning at the very least has a chance to grow and become better. Same goes for the other young kids who haven't tasted the NHL yet.

Any ice time taken by Luke, Umberger, MacDonald, LeCavalier is a waste. They will be out of the picture by the time this team is ready to establish itself.
- flyer_nutter

I'd say ice time for Schenn is a good thing. He plays well, maybe his trade value rises.

Id be fine with Manning remaining in, but to me he really hasn't looked good at all. He's had a few good plays, but he doesn't look like a guy who can sustain good play as a NHL a regular. I think a guy like Gustafsson looked far better than Manning, for instance.

LET'S GO FLYERS!!! CLAP! ~ CLAP! ~ CLAP!CLAP!CLAP!!!



LET'S GO FLYERS!!! CLAP! ~ CLAP! ~ CLAP!CLAP!CLAP!!!



LET'S GO FLYERS!!! CLAP! ~ CLAP! ~ CLAP!CLAP!CLAP!!!

Manning was brutal tonight and made many fringe NHL player mistakes
I'm done with Raffl on the top line he doesn't do anything give Gagner a shot
- 2Real

Can't hurt to try someone else on the top line, but the only reason G has his lone goal so far this season is because of Raffl. And Jake has 1 assist. When your top 2 players have 3 points through 5 games, they aren't getting the job done.

LET'S GO FLYERS!!! CLAP! ~ CLAP! ~ CLAP!CLAP!CLAP!!!



LET'S GO FLYERS!!! CLAP! ~ CLAP! ~ CLAP!CLAP!CLAP!!!



LET'S GO FLYERS!!! CLAP! ~ CLAP! ~ CLAP!CLAP!CLAP!!!
- ggunky

Hell yeah!!

I agree Jsaq. I've been saying Schenn has no right to be benched over about half the d corps. Umby also should play over White. Coots and Schenn shouldn't have been split either imo.

I think Manning has looked awful. I understand MDZ matched against top pairs -- Chief did the same and with the roster makeup he's by default the best 5v5 d man. Why Manning is with him in that case has been and still is baffling. As bad as his possession stats are, he's looked awful even without consulting them. More than just the two goals -- his positioning tends to be off, in the zone he's a mess, and I honestly don't even see him contributing offensively. Unless Hak and Hexy are really trying to get a read on him to see if he's scrap heap material or not and whether they feel comfortable trading someone else and keeping him, I see no justification in playing him. Gulp. I'd take A Mac over him.

Regarding the 4th line, I'm beginning to wonder if Hak doesn't have a soft spot for them and he's actually OK with matching them up over their heads. He clearly trusts PEB and VDV more than anyone else on the PK, and in the first 4 games, they've actually led the team in quality of competition....
- Mononoke

Yep. I'm a lot more comfortable with MDZ facing top lines if he's with Schultz or Schenn over Manning. I'm assuming that they're really trying to be sure what they have there, and that's fine. I don't think he's looked like a top 6 NHL defenseman(Manning that is).

I agree on the 4th line stuff too. Maybe it's a reward for what they do on the PK. I just think White's been their worst forward, and would like to see Umberger back-if only to see if he's still got the jump he did in game 1 & the preseason