Travis Yost: On Paul MacLean and Penalties

I can't decide if Paul Maclean is a good coach or not. I thought he did a great job turning the team around quickly, but now I'm wondering if he wasn't just in the right place at the right time. He seems oblivious to the current issues plaguing this team.

SensChirp sort of wrote a similar post today, incl.:

careful now travis......we aren't allowed to question Maclean. He won the adams last year, so that means everything he does this year is right.

So I guess we will continue to bash the coach into the ground. Alright.

A coach can only do so much with what he has. I've tried to make the point that Mclean is a 4 line and 3 pairing coach. This should surprise no one. We thrived last year on the fact this team could role everyone on the roster and they would give teams problems. This year, our depth in the roster has let us down in the regard. It's only been the last handful of games where 2 or 3 lines come to play. Too often this year only one line came to play or "gelled" if you will. Mclean won't let that stop his deployment for whatever reason. I am on board with everyone that it would be mic to see say Turris, Zibby, and Macarthur get a couple more minutes per game while Greening, Smith, and Neil get a couple less. However, Mclean has a way to do things and I think it works when the whole team comes to play. There have been stretches this season where deploying 3 or 4 lines who are all rolling looks downright lethal. However, our bottom depth guys cannot sustain that due for obvious reasons.

I'm not sticking up for Mclean or anything, just pointing out what I see. The way our team is built, as of now, his deployment is huge hit and miss. In a couple of years, maybe even next year if our depth improves, this deployment is absolutely fine. Just hard to get rid of Neil, Greening, etc with those contracts.

What the hell is going on over at Sens HQ?! This team should arguably be better than their record this year, if not for the endless head-scratching decisions being made. PensionPlanPuppets said this yesterday about the Leafs, but how on earth does an organization who's primary job is to ice the most competitive team possible, completely ignore the data and analysis that's available? For a coach that quite obviously understands 'shot attempts' strategies, how could he be so incapable of putting the best players on the ice at any given time?

The three previous games, it looked as if things were making sense. Kass/Smith/Neil got very little ice time. MZ/Turris lines got the most. It worked. They won. Then this?! I'm so angry!

So I guess we will continue to bash the coach into the ground. Alright.

A coach can only do so much with what he has. I've tried to make the point that Mclean is a 4 line and 3 pairing coach. This should surprise no one. We thrived last year on the fact this team could role everyone on the roster and they would give teams problems. This year, our depth in the roster has let us down in the regard. It's only been the last handful of games where 2 or 3 lines come to play. Too often this year only one line came to play or "gelled" if you will. Mclean won't let that stop his deployment for whatever reason. I am on board with everyone that it would be mic to see say Turris, Zibby, and Macarthur get a couple more minutes per game while Greening, Smith, and Neil get a couple less. However, Mclean has a way to do things and I think it works when the whole team comes to play. There have been stretches this season where deploying 3 or 4 lines who are all rolling looks downright lethal. However, our bottom depth guys cannot sustain that due for obvious reasons.

I'm not sticking up for Mclean or anything, just pointing out what I see. The way our team is built, as of now, his deployment is huge hit and miss. In a couple of years, maybe even next year if our depth improves, this deployment is absolutely fine. Just hard to get rid of Neil, Greening, etc with those contracts.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Right but I think objecting to "we take too many penalties" and continuing to play/reward the guys who take so many penalties are irreconcilable. That's a major issue.

Just hard to get rid of Neil, Greening, etc with those contracts.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I'm not sure if they're willing to let these 'hard workers' go so easily. Murray likes big, tough guys just as much as Burke does. Who's going to bring this up to management? Kinda makes you want to call HQ and set up a meeting with Ol' Bryan and Paul, and explain to them what's up!

There's gotta be a trade available with Edm or Cgy for these guys. Hell, give them away. Retain salary for no return. Replace them internally. Instant improvement.

careful now travis......we aren't allowed to question Maclean. He won the adams last year, so that means everything he does this year is right.
- sensarmy_11

Paul MacLean

just messin' with ya

Right but I think objecting to "we take too many penalties" and continuing to play/reward the guys who take so many penalties are irreconcilable. That's a major issue.
- Travis Yost

I think it sort of goes hand in hand. Goes back to him liking to role his lines. I also think Mclean is starting to run out of things to say after crappy games. At some point he will say something hypocritical. I agree with all the criticism, just trying to make it all make a little more sense then Mclean has simply lost it or has switched places with his doppelgänger from behind the glass this season.

So I guess we will continue to bash the coach into the ground. Alright.

A coach can only do so much with what he has. I've tried to make the point that Mclean is a 4 line and 3 pairing coach. This should surprise no one. We thrived last year on the fact this team could role everyone on the roster and they would give teams problems. This year, our depth in the roster has let us down in the regard. It's only been the last handful of games where 2 or 3 lines come to play. Too often this year only one line came to play or "gelled" if you will. Mclean won't let that stop his deployment for whatever reason. I am on board with everyone that it would be mic to see say Turris, Zibby, and Macarthur get a couple more minutes per game while Greening, Smith, and Neil get a couple less. However, Mclean has a way to do things and I think it works when the whole team comes to play. There have been stretches this season where deploying 3 or 4 lines who are all rolling looks downright lethal. However, our bottom depth guys cannot sustain that due for obvious reasons.

I'm not sticking up for Mclean or anything, just pointing out what I see. The way our team is built, as of now, his deployment is huge hit and miss. In a couple of years, maybe even next year if our depth improves, this deployment is absolutely fine. Just hard to get rid of Neil, Greening, etc with those contracts.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

nobody is complaining that he's a "4 line" coach, the problem seems to be when and how much he deploys the weaker lines.

also, like travis said, what kind of message are you sending your "star" players by saying "you haven't been playing responsibly in your own end, so i'm gonna give your minutes to guys who've been playing even worse"......where the hell is the message to the smith line, who've pretty consistently been one of, if not the worst line for the team, ALMOST on a nightly basis.

it's fine, in theory, to be a 4 line coach, but when it's pretty obvious to EVERYONE that one of those lines is playing like poop, perhaps you cut down on their ice, instead of giving them more.

Paul MacLean

just messin' with ya
- GadesnSens

to be fair, i don't think maclean is the biggest problem on this team..........but i also think it's incredibly naive...and really, letting him off the hook......to say that he has been part of the problem, or AT THE VERY LEAST, done little or nothing to help fix it.

nobody is complaining that he's a "4 line" coach, the problem seems to be when and how much he deploys the weaker lines.

also, like travis said, what kind of message are you sending your "star" players by saying "you haven't been playing responsibly in your own end, so i'm gonna give your minutes to guys who've been playing even worse"......where the hell is the message to the smith line, who've pretty consistently been one of, if not the worst line for the team, ALMOST on a nightly basis.

it's fine, in theory, to be a 4 line coach, but when it's pretty obvious to EVERYONE that one of those lines is playing like poop, perhaps you cut down on their ice, instead of giving them more.
- sensarmy_11

This is a huge, huge problem for me. Totally agree.

This is a huge, huge problem for me. Totally agree.
- Travis Yost

it seems like the worse they are, the more they play. basically, whenever ANYONE else makes a mistake, they get benched, or reduced ice time. but when that line makes mistakes, it almost seems like maclean takes ice away from better players and gives it to them, to what..........let them try and play through their mistakes?

it's completely baffling

and yet, still not the stupidest decision he's made this year...

cowen/phillips over wiercioch................

i bet those 2 d-men have DIRECTLY cost this team AT MINIMUM 2-3 losses all by themselves.

nobody is complaining that he's a "4 line" coach, the problem seems to be when and how much he deploys the weaker lines.

also, like travis said, what kind of message are you sending your "star" players by saying "you haven't been playing responsibly in your own end, so i'm gonna give your minutes to guys who've been playing even worse"......where the hell is the message to the smith line, who've pretty consistently been one of, if not the worst line for the team, ALMOST on a nightly basis.

it's fine, in theory, to be a 4 line coach, but when it's pretty obvious to EVERYONE that one of those lines is playing like poop, perhaps you cut down on their ice, instead of giving them more.
- sensarmy_11

That's basically complaining about him rolling 4 lines.

Like I said, I don't disagree with any of the notions. It's hard to know what exactly is going on. I don't get why Neil, Smith, Greening, etc get as much ice time as our top 6 forwards either. The only explanation to me is that he likes his line rolling. It's happened so often this year, that I don't think he is punishing top players, specifically for bad penalties. I am sure it has happened from time to time. Last night being an example. Mclean said something off the top of his head and we all had a day to digest and think about it then call him out on his hypocrisy. I want answers as much as the next guy. However, nothing will be answered until probably the summer/training camp.

it seems like the worse they are, the more they play. basically, whenever ANYONE else makes a mistake, they get benched, or reduced ice time. but when that line makes mistakes, it almost seems like maclean takes ice away from better players and gives it to them, to what..........let them try and play through their mistakes?

it's completely baffling

and yet, still not the stupidest decision he's made this year...

cowen/phillips over wiercioch................

i bet those 2 d-men have DIRECTLY cost this team AT MINIMUM 2-3 losses all by themselves.
- sensarmy_11

The Wiercioch stuff I don't understand. I didn't even get it last year. He needs to get better positionally, but his puck movement is brilliant.

it seems like the worse they are, the more they play. basically, whenever ANYONE else makes a mistake, they get benched, or reduced ice time. but when that line makes mistakes, it almost seems like maclean takes ice away from better players and gives it to them, to what..........let them try and play through their mistakes?

it's completely baffling

and yet, still not the stupidest decision he's made this year...

cowen/phillips over wiercioch................

i bet those 2 d-men have DIRECTLY cost this team AT MINIMUM 2-3 losses all by themselves.
- sensarmy_11

this is exactly the problem i have with maclean. i mean, if i'm an intelligent and skilled player i'd be like, WTF? this makes no sense? in my opinion, if i were a player these types of moves by mac would really make me question his credibility. im not saying mac has lost the room, but when you make hypocritical moves like this, i think guys reach a point where they just chalk it up to mac being mac, and pass it off non-sensical. so, again, how is this helping our team, really? i doubt the message being sent is the same as its being received. so, STOP SENDING SUCH A DUMB MESSAGE and PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE STOP OVERPLAYING THE GREENING, SMITH, NEIL OR ANY LINE MAKE UP LIKE THIS PLEAASSEEEE.... i dont want ANY of these guys on PP or on in the last 10 minutes when we are down a goal. i don't think that's too much to ask.

That's basically complaining about him rolling 4 lines.

Like I said, I don't disagree with any of the notions. It's hard to know what exactly is going on. I don't get why Neil, Smith, Greening, etc get as much ice time as our top 6 forwards either. The only explanation to me is that he likes his line rolling. It's happened so often this year, that I don't think he is punishing top players, specifically for bad penalties. I am sure it has happened from time to time. Last night being an example. Mclean said something off the top of his head and we all had a day to digest and think about it then call him out on his hypocrisy. I want answers as much as the next guy. However, nothing will be answered until probably the summer/training camp.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

i guess maybe our opinions differ on "rolling 4 lines".

i think some teams essentially play their 4th line only 2-3 minutes a night, and basically rely heavily on 3 lines. obviously that's not what maclean does.

that being said, rolling 4 lines doesn't necessarily mean that all 4 lines need to play like 15 minutes each........a line like neil-smith-greening should only be getting like 8-10 mins at most, and almost NONE of those minutes should be in the 3rd period, of must win games, down by a goal.

just cuz you roll 4 lines, doesn't mean you have to roll them completely evenly.

i think the frustration is exacerbated when maclean decides to lay all the blame on his players, while never seeming to take responsibility for his often baffling coaching decisions. instead he just spews out the stupid cliche (and obviously false) answers...."best players play", "i'm just coaching the team".

it's infuriating.

That's basically complaining about him rolling 4 lines.

Like I said, I don't disagree with any of the notions. It's hard to know what exactly is going on. I don't get why Neil, Smith, Greening, etc get as much ice time as our top 6 forwards either. The only explanation to me is that he likes his line rolling. It's happened so often this year, that I don't think he is punishing top players, specifically for bad penalties. I am sure it has happened from time to time. Last night being an example. Mclean said something off the top of his head and we all had a day to digest and think about it then call him out on his hypocrisy. I want answers as much as the next guy. However, nothing will be answered until probably the summer/training camp.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

he started neil and smith (i believe) on our first pp in the third. how is this read as anything but a message to the rest of the team? why is neil on at the end of the game?
this goes way beyond rolling 4 lines. way beyond.

The Wiercioch stuff I don't understand. I didn't even get it last year. He needs to get better positionally, but his puck movement is brilliant.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

i agree with that......but despite that fact, he's still 10 times better positionally then phillips or cowen, and AT LEAST as good as gryba and ceci.

Re: the suspicion that people have that the Senators wouldn't do away with Greening/Smith/Neil, etc., because they're too 'cheap' to retain salary.

I have a hard time believing that Melnyk would be that much of an idiot. Considering the improvement in results that the Senators could have from just removing the anchors that are Neil and Greening from the lineup, he would be a fool to put any obstacle in the way of their removal, be it via buyout or trade with salary retained.

How many people go to Senators games when the team is good? How much revenue does he make from playoff games?

Now, how many people go to Senators games when they're losing? This ain't the Leafs, people won't pay infinity dollars for infinite time to watch a losing team. And how much is he really 'saving' by retaining Neil and Greening on the roster over guys on ELCs, even if he had to buy them out?

No, if Neil and Greening are on the team next year, it's because BM or PMac hope/believe they can bounce back. Full stop.

The Wiercioch stuff I don't understand. I didn't even get it last year. He needs to get better positionally, but his puck movement is brilliant.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

That opening series he had on the first power-play last night was fantastic.

That's basically complaining about him rolling 4 lines.

Like I said, I don't disagree with any of the notions. It's hard to know what exactly is going on. I don't get why Neil, Smith, Greening, etc get as much ice time as our top 6 forwards either. The only explanation to me is that he likes his line rolling. It's happened so often this year, that I don't think he is punishing top players, specifically for bad penalties. I am sure it has happened from time to time. Last night being an example. Mclean said something off the top of his head and we all had a day to digest and think about it then call him out on his hypocrisy. I want answers as much as the next guy. However, nothing will be answered until probably the summer/training camp.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

the other thing that drives me nuts.............and this is just speculation, obviously none of us know exactly how the players are feeling..........but how is maclean going to convince guys like hemsky, ryan, macarthur, etc to re-sign here, when the coach is giving their minutes to arguably the 3 worst forwards on teh team (and no, i dont' count kassian as a forward, and not even really as a hockey player).

like i said, i don't know what the players are feeling..........but if i'm bobby ryan, and i see that i can play 20-23 minutes a night with giroux in philly, while my coach in ottawa is playing me less than 4th line plugs like greening and neil.........well (frank), that's a pretty easy decision for me.

Ryan says he'd definitely consider a long-term deal in Ottawa. "Treated great".

That opening series he had on the first power-play last night was fantastic.
- Travis Yost

I think since being put back into the lineup, he's maybe been our best d-man...........it's COMPLETELY mind boggling why he hasn't been playing.