Mark Spizzirri: How long until Gustav Nyquist returns to Detroit?

Maybe I don't quite understand the cap situation, but even if someone did go on LTIR that would allow them enough room to bring up Nyquist wouldn't they still be putting themselves in an even bigger jam once that player got healthy given Nyquist will have then burned his last 2 games of waiver eligibility?

That Cleary signing was so frustrating, but at least Babcock isn't shying away from pulling him out of the lineup, he's looked awful in the games that I've seen.

Maybe I don't quite understand the cap situation, but even if someone did go on LTIR that would allow them enough room to bring up Nyquist wouldn't they still be putting themselves in an even bigger jam once that player got healthy given Nyquist will have then burned his last 2 games of waiver eligibility?

That Cleary signing was so frustrating, but at least Babcock isn't shying away from pulling him out of the lineup, he's looked awful in the games that I've seen.
- tmanv

If someone with a sufficient enough salary goes on LTIR for even the shortest stint possible (10 games/24 days), the Wings will have earned enough LTIR credits to keep Nyquist in Detroit and maintain 24 players on the roster even when the injured player returns to the active lineup. Babcock will just have an additional healthy scratch.

Cleary appears to be in line for a scratch tomorrow vs. Winnipeg so as you mention, it's good to see nobody is immune from sitting out.

you know, if we are going to suck mind as well play guys like nyquist,tatar,ouelett.
instead of middling 3rd and 4th line grinders like miller, cleary, samuelsson,glendening, eaves. and poop guys on defense like Smith,Quincey

you know, if we are going to suck mind as well play guys like nyquist,tatar,ouelett.
instead of middling 3rd and 4th line grinders like miller, cleary, samuelsson,glendening, eaves. and poop guys on defense like Smith,Quincey
- Jurco_28

Way too early to pull the plug on Smith. He's looked pretty bad a lot of the time, but he's been good at every level up until now. It is the best league in the world after all, gotta let ride a bit.

Way too early to pull the plug on Smith. He's looked pretty bad a lot of the time, but he's been good at every level up until now. It is the best league in the world after all, gotta let ride a bit.
- tmanv

I agree. Have to give him some time. Babcock more than likely is stressing defense to him and changing his game which is making it worst right now. Once he gets his defensive game to round out, his offense will hopefully come back and make him a better well rounded defenseman which I think is what Babcock is trying to do. Babcock did the same thing to Kindl and Ericsson.


Quincey is just killing whatever partner he has and making them look worst. Whoever gets paired with him, their game seems to go right into the toilet.

I agree. Have to give him some time. Babcock more than likely is stressing defense to him and changing his game which is making it worst right now. Once he gets his defensive game to round out, his offense will hopefully come back and make him a better well rounded defenseman which I think is what Babcock is trying to do. Babcock did the same thing to Kindl and Ericsson.


Quincey is just killing whatever partner he has and making them look worst. Whoever gets paired with him, their game seems to go right into the toilet.
- dcz28

they resigned Cleary, which was a mistake. when we all thought he should/would be gone.

here is who should be GONE this offseason just because they are UFAs
Quincey,Cleary,Samuelsson

heres who they should look to trade/buytout:
Tootoo, Franzen

Way too early to pull the plug on Smith. He's looked pretty bad a lot of the time, but he's been good at every level up until now. It is the best league in the world after all, gotta let ride a bit.
- tmanv

Well, Smith better get it in gear cuz there is guys coming from GR.
Dekeyser has already passed him.
Oulette and Almquist have already come up. Theres guys like Marchenko and Sproul in GR too.

they resigned Cleary, which was a mistake. when we all thought he should/would be gone.

here is who should be GONE this offseason just because they are UFAs
Quincey,Cleary,Samuelsson

heres who they should look to trade/buytout:
Tootoo, Franzen
- Jurco_28

I don't think you will find many who will debate that but still a chance Holland keeps Cleary...he can't seem to cut the cord with some players.

Have a hard time seeing Holland trade or buy out Franzen. Holland is afraid of big trades and trading Franzen would be like admitting he made a mistake which he doesn't like to do.

"In a perfect world, Samuelsson would go down with a “upper body injury”, free up about $460,000 in additional LTIR credits and the Gustav Nyquist era in Grand Rapids would come to a screeching halt. "

Bad Karma to wish injury on a player...you might end up getting more than you asked for (Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Howard)

Nyquist will be back up with the Wings, whenever Holland & Babcock get their stubborn heads out of their asses...which might take a while. Holland refuses to ever admit he made a mistake...ahem Cleary...and will try and let things play out as long as possible and kid himself in order for him to save face, and it's pathetic.

The more he does things like this, the more I think his time has run out and new blood is needed in management.

This article from the Detroit Free Press is proof positive that reality has finally slapped Holland and Babcock in the face with regards to Cleary:

http://www.detroitnews.co...niel-Cleary-might-benched

Maddening as hell to see old veterans who no longer perform get a roster spot and STILL see the talented young players not get the ice time they need or sit in GR (Nyquist).
Holland had better find a way to get Nyquist in Detroit like NOW... and still hold onto Eaves (who will get claimed off waivers).

With Helm AND Nyquist in the lineup it would improve our bottom six dramatically due to Nyquist's chemisty with Tatar and Andersson... and give us an excellent bottom 6 that could score and kill penalties. With Ericsson coming back on the 15th from LTIR this should force Holland to do something... and he better not waive Eaves.

Here are the line combinations I'd like to see Babcock try tonight against Winnipeg. Not sure if they'll work well but I'd try anything to get Weiss on a line that has real chemistry to get him going and build his confidence:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi
Franzen - Andersson - Alfredsson
Tatar - Weiss - Eaves
Miller - Helm - Abdelkader

Bench: Tootoo, Cleary, Samuelsson

"In a perfect world, Samuelsson would go down with a “upper body injury”, free up about $460,000 in additional LTIR credits and the Gustav Nyquist era in Grand Rapids would come to a screeching halt. "

Bad Karma to wish injury on a player...you might end up getting more than you asked for (Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Howard)
- GardinerExpress

Was meant as a sarcastic remark.

Yes, the Wings shouldn't have re-signed Cleary. Yes, Samuelsson is a bum. Yes, Franzen hasn't been that go to player he was years ago. Yes, Tootoo is a grinder on a team that doesn't need it. We have many loose ends. The more obvious mistake in the off season that isn't getting any mention was letting Filppula go to pick up Weiss. I didn't agree with this when it happened, and I am saddened that I was correct. If Filppula had as many points on the Wings as he does in TB, he would be our 4th best player in points. Weiss is 12th in points.

Filps: 6 goals 6 assist +2
Weiss: 2 goals 1 assist -3.

Here are the line combinations I'd like to see Babcock try tonight against Winnipeg. Not sure if they'll work well but I'd try anything to get Weiss on a line that has real chemistry to get him going and build his confidence:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi
Franzen - Andersson - Alfredsson
Tatar - Weiss - Eaves
Miller - Helm - Abdelkader

Bench: Tootoo, Cleary, Samuelsson
- Vladdie_Kon1

Pretty good line choice, but if you want to get Weiss going, I'd rather see:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi
Tatar - Weiss - Alfredsson
Franzen - Andersson - Eaves
Miller - Helm - Abdelkader

Yes, the Wings shouldn't have re-signed Cleary. Yes, Samuelsson is a bum. Yes, Franzen hasn't been that go to player he was years ago. Yes, Tootoo is a grinder on a team that doesn't need it. We have many loose ends. The more obvious mistake in the off season that isn't getting any mention was letting Filppula go to pick up Weiss. I didn't agree with this when it happened, and I am saddened that I was correct. If Filppula had as many points on the Wings as he does in TB, he would be our 4th best player in points. Weiss is 12th in points.

Filps: 6 goals 6 assist +2
Weiss: 2 goals 1 assist -3.
- Crbr9

Hindsight is 20/20. I imagine Filppula's numbers wouldn't be as impressive here in Detroit had he stayed, though they'd certainly be better than Weiss'. I seem to remember two out of every three fans agreeing that Weiss would be an improvement over Filp and that they didn't want Filp around anymore, so this was probably a lose-lose for Holland.

I was sad to see Filp go, but I think the change of scene has been for him. It's unfortunate that Weiss is struggling though.

Hindsight is 20/20. I imagine Filppula's numbers wouldn't be as impressive here in Detroit had he stayed, though they'd certainly be better than Weiss'. I seem to remember two out of every three fans agreeing that Weiss would be an improvement over Filp and that they didn't want Filp around anymore, so this was probably a lose-lose for Holland.

I was sad to see Filp go, but I think the change of scene has been for him. It's unfortunate that Weiss is struggling though.
- Craola

Well said. At least he gets to play for Yzerman.

Hindsight is 20/20. I imagine Filppula's numbers wouldn't be as impressive here in Detroit had he stayed, though they'd certainly be better than Weiss'. I seem to remember two out of every three fans agreeing that Weiss would be an improvement over Filp and that they didn't want Filp around anymore, so this was probably a lose-lose for Holland.

I was sad to see Filp go, but I think the change of scene has been for him. It's unfortunate that Weiss is struggling though.
- Craola

No arguing it has been a disappointing debut for Weiss but let's see what he does over a full season before suggesting the "switch" was the wrong move. Certainly, the Lightning have the edge through 20 games....still a small sample size.

No question Filppula has been better in Tampa so far than Weiss has been here. Much better. But some quasi-reassuring things to consider regarding Val's hot start:

1) Sample: we're talking about less than 20 games here. That's just not a big enough sample to make intelligent judgments about what the next 5 years will be like. Weiss and Fil are about the same age and, adjusting for strength of competition and level of opportunity, are very comparable in terms of their career performance to this point. Assuming their are no injuries or other complicating factors we haven't heard about, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that they will likely be comparable players throughout the next 5 years.

2) Fortune: Filppula so far is putting up nearly double his career shooting percentage. That can not and will not hold. Regress his numbers to his career shooting percentage and his line is only 3-6-9 in 17 games -- a 15-goal, 43 point pace. Otherwise known as "exactly what you'd expect out of Valtteri Filppula."

3) Opportunity: In Tampa, Val is getting nearly 3 minutes per game of powerplay time and over 19 minutes per game overall. In Detroit, Weiss (despite nominally playing the same role, 2C) plays less than a minute and a half per game on the powerplay and less than 16 minutes per game overall. Part of that is reward/punishment for good and bad play, but I think it's also fair to suggest that, if the situations were reversed, Weiss would probably be getting more minutes in Tampa than he does in Detroit, with the reverse being true for Val. And that's not really surprising -- even at the time of signing it was pretty clear that Val was going to be the third-best forward on the Lightning, whereas even a healthy and productive Weiss was realistically not going to be better than fifth on the depth chart, behind Pasha, Z, Mule, and Alfredsson.

So I think it's fair to say that Filppula is going to cool down. I don't think over the long term he's going to perform any better than we would have expected him to perform.

The more pressing questions are about Weiss. I never really expected him to get back to 60-point territory because I think his career numbers are inflated somewhat from playing in a very soft division in a very soft conference; with a more balanced schedule he seemed bound to lose some ground, even if he's still in the East. But he has 3 goals and 4 assists in his last 34 games, and is coming off wrist surgery. My fear is that he may have some injury-related issues we may not be aware of that are significantly restricting his performance. My hope and expectation is that he'll continue to get more comfortable in the system and rebound a bit (i.e., become a consistent 40-50 point two-way center) but the longer this drags out, the more I worry.

No arguing it has been a disappointing debut for Weiss but let's see what he does over a full season before suggesting the "switch" was the wrong move. Certainly, the Lightning have the edge through 20 games....still a small sample size.
- spity1

To add to that, I remember plenty of 20 game stretches where Filpulla looked like he had taken the next step while he was with the Wings. See how his final tallies look.

To add to that, I remember plenty of 20 game stretches where Filpulla looked like he had taken the next step while he was with the Wings. See how his final tallies look.
- tmanv

watch this red wings team on multiple days rest will be outskated by the jets, out hustled , outplayed.

i hope im wrong but this team is up in the air right now.

franzen quote on tonights game:

Franzen said. "But still, you have to keep your shifts short and really try to be smart out there and don't do too much."

ya, you never do too much you big lazy (frank). 2 goals on the season and in one game.

No question Filppula has been better in Tampa so far than Weiss has been here. Much better. But some quasi-reassuring things to consider regarding Val's hot start:

1) Sample: we're talking about less than 20 games here. That's just not a big enough sample to make intelligent judgments about what the next 5 years will be like. Weiss and Fil are about the same age and, adjusting for strength of competition and level of opportunity, are very comparable in terms of their career performance to this point. Assuming their are no injuries or other complicating factors we haven't heard about, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that they will likely be comparable players throughout the next 5 years.

2) Fortune: Filppula so far is putting up nearly double his career shooting percentage. That can not and will not hold. Regress his numbers to his career shooting percentage and his line is only 3-6-9 in 17 games -- a 15-goal, 43 point pace. Otherwise known as "exactly what you'd expect out of Valtteri Filppula."

3) Opportunity: In Tampa, Val is getting nearly 3 minutes per game of powerplay time and over 19 minutes per game overall. In Detroit, Weiss (despite nominally playing the same role, 2C) plays less than a minute and a half per game on the powerplay and less than 16 minutes per game overall. Part of that is reward/punishment for good and bad play, but I think it's also fair to suggest that, if the situations were reversed, Weiss would probably be getting more minutes in Tampa than he does in Detroit, with the reverse being true for Val. And that's not really surprising -- even at the time of signing it was pretty clear that Val was going to be the third-best forward on the Lightning, whereas even a healthy and productive Weiss was realistically not going to be better than fifth on the depth chart, behind Pasha, Z, Mule, and Alfredsson.

So I think it's fair to say that Filppula is going to cool down. I don't think over the long term he's going to perform any better than we would have expected him to perform.

The more pressing questions are about Weiss. I never really expected him to get back to 60-point territory because I think his career numbers are inflated somewhat from playing in a very soft division in a very soft conference; with a more balanced schedule he seemed bound to lose some ground, even if he's still in the East. But he has 3 goals and 4 assists in his last 34 games, and is coming off wrist surgery. My fear is that he may have some injury-related issues we may not be aware of that are significantly restricting his performance. My hope and expectation is that he'll continue to get more comfortable in the system and rebound a bit (i.e., become a consistent 40-50 point two-way center) but the longer this drags out, the more I worry.
- Sven22

You always have intelligent comments and for that I thank you...I'm tired of these negative comments (cough Jurco_28) .. You would think were in the basement...pretty sure we're in the playoffs last time I checked with 60 games to go...anyways I agree it's too early to judge Weiss but I have seen things I like and have noticed his good play off the puck lead to goals (ie driving the net etc.) and he's not getting the bounces to get on the stat sheet... Although there comes a time where that's not enough but I think the system is a lot different than Florida and he is adjusting slower than we would like...

Ideally I know everyone says screw Sammy and cleary which I agree but when you sign a player it's still a business...and gms don't like putting a 3million dollar investment ride the pine .. I don't like doing lines cause what I think means nothing and I'm certain holland knows better than all us complaining on here from their couch but here's what I'd do....

z - Pav - Bert
Mule - Weiss - alfie
Tatar - helm - nyquist
Anyone - Andy - anyone

Regardless of what anyone says before this season...so far ... Mule has put up reasonable pts for what he gets paid.. But I agree it's frustrating that he is streaky and we all know he can do more but I doubt he has much trade value. The fourth line I don't know really it doesn't matter whoever wants to bust their ass whether it be eaves miller Sammy ... These lines I know don't consider cap compliance and what not just assuming they figured that out this is what I'd do...

Spizirri your next blog can be entitled:

HOWARD make a Save for once when it counts.

Ah, crumb.

Well, on the plus side I think the Wings played a relatively solid game tonight. I thought the Red Wings were the better team tonight and against Dallas, and they nearly stole one against Tampa. But for a few bounces they could be on a 3-game winning streak instead of a 3-game losing streak.

But everyone on the team not named Datsyuk or Zetterberg needs to be better. Particularly Howard, who has had a couple of rough outings recently, tonight included.