Dee Karl: Trottier, Weight & Donovan at the ICF Golf Event Proof positive, I know nothing about golf.

Dee Karl: Trottier, Weight & Donovan at the ICF Golf Event
Proof positive, I know nothing about hockey.
- Dee Karl

I'll leave this one alone. Not going to lie, it's really hard



Edit; couldn't resist

I'll leave this one alone. Not going to lie, it's really hard



Edit; couldn't resist
- Cptmjl

XxNYIxX

Hate to say it but the more I read about the lock out the more you have to believe small market teams would be content with no season. If these small market teams are consistently loosing money each year why would they push for a season. I would hope the league would take care of the small market teams and make the league more competitive and lower the salary cap. This is another league where only the rich teams will succeed. Then again I am sure its more complected and there are a lot more issues.

Hate to say it but the more I read about the lock out the more you have to believe small market teams would be content with no season. If these small market teams are consistently loosing money each year why would they push for a season. I would hope the league would take care of the small market teams and make the league more competitive and lower the salary cap. This is another league where only the rich teams will succeed. Then again I am sure its more complected and there are a lot more issues.
- BOBBYBOWS

You really think we're losing as much money he says? I'm pretty sure all Wang is incorporating in his earnings is ticket sales, concessions and parking

Not other event parking or sales or concessions, not merchandise sales (off game day) not cable contract... Not to mention the NHL video software is his

You really think we're losing as much money he says? I'm pretty sure all Wang is incorporating in his earnings is ticket sales, concessions and parking

Not other event parking or sales or concessions, not merchandise sales (off game day) not cable contract... Not to mention the NHL video software is his
- Danformo

Dont believe the hype!

Hate to say it but the more I read about the lock out the more you have to believe small market teams would be content with no season. If these small market teams are consistently loosing money each year why would they push for a season. I would hope the league would take care of the small market teams and make the league more competitive and lower the salary cap. This is another league where only the rich teams will succeed. Then again I am sure its more complected and there are a lot more issues.
- BOBBYBOWS

maybe they should just "tighten money each year"....?

and your statement is 100% true, if small market teams are lOsing money every year than it WOULD make sense that they would prefer a lock out.

thats a big "if"....i highly doubt the owners who (for the most part) worked hard to make MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars would throw it away and consistently lose money just for the sake of owning a professional sports team. i dont believe it. its much easier to buy season tickets and not have the hassle of owning a sports club.

maybe they should just "tighten money each year"....?

and your statement is 100% true, if small market teams are lOsing money every year than it WOULD make sense that they would prefer a lock out.

thats a big "if"....i highly doubt the owners who (for the most part) worked hard to make MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars would throw it away and consistently lose money just for the sake of owning a professional sports team. i dont believe it. its much easier to buy season tickets and not have the hassle of owning a sports club.
- LetsGoIsles

I've thrown away thousands of dollars in a year just for the sake of owning various pointless things in line with hobbies I have. It'd be a lot less expensive to not have those hobbies. The dollars are way lower for my interests, because my total income would be less than a rounding error for these guys. We don't know what it's like for the owners, because it's hard for any of us to imagine the numbers they deal with in their world.

I'm just not sure that the sports team is the primary source of income for most of these guys. I don't really think that if an owner says he's "losing" $8m a year, it means he's actually ending the year with $8m less than he started it with. Pegula is probably one of the few who is honest about that. He essentially said he's not concerned with losing money on the Sabres because he makes his profits elsewhere. I do believe that losses on a sports team can get to a point where some of these guys may not feel it's worth it anymore, just like costs for our hobbies can become prohibitive.

And these guys aren't dumb either, and don't employ dumb people. I bet for all the losses they take, there are teams of accountants making sure the ultimate hit is barely noticeable at the end of the day. It's probably different for each owner. For every one that got into it as an expensive hobby for billionaires, there's probably someone else who thought it would be a good business investment. Who knows. But I don't think we'll see any of these guys clipping coupons for the grocery store because of "losses" they took on owning a sports team. Except maybe Spano.

I've thrown away thousands of dollars in a year just for the sake of owning various pointless things in line with hobbies I have. It'd be a lot less expensive to not have those hobbies. The dollars are way lower for my interests, because my total income would be less than a rounding error for these guys. We don't know what it's like for the owners, because it's hard for any of us to imagine the numbers they deal with in their world.

I'm just not sure that the sports team is the primary source of income for most of these guys. I don't really think that if an owner says he's "losing" $8m a year, it means he's actually ending the year with $8m less than he started it with. Pegula is probably one of the few who is honest about that. He essentially said he's not concerned with losing money on the Sabres because he makes his profits elsewhere. I do believe that losses on a sports team can get to a point where some of these guys may not feel it's worth it anymore, just like costs for our hobbies can become prohibitive.

And these guys aren't dumb either, and don't employ dumb people. I bet for all the losses they take, there are teams of accountants making sure the ultimate hit is barely noticeable at the end of the day. It's probably different for each owner. For every one that got into it as an expensive hobby for billionaires, there's probably someone else who thought it would be a good business investment. Who knows. But I don't think we'll see any of these guys clipping coupons for the grocery store because of "losses" they took on owning a sports team. Except maybe Spano.
- UIF

didnt say sports teams are their main source of income. in fact if things were so tight for an owner that it was their main source, they should sell.

my point was that wang isnt losing 20MM a year...i dont care how rich you are, no one happily losses that kind of money on a consistent basis. owners arent there for hand outs to the poor.

and something else to think about, if wang is SOOO cheap as some claim to be, and he loves lowballing his players (read: mm (as some would like us to believe)) than why would he willingly lose 20 million a year?? cmon

Hate to say it but the more I read about the lock out the more you have to believe small market teams would be content with no season. If these small market teams are consistently loosing money each year why would they push for a season. I would hope the league would take care of the small market teams and make the league more competitive and lower the salary cap. This is another league where only the rich teams will succeed. Then again I am sure its more complected and there are a lot more issues.
- BOBBYBOWS

The biggest difference between the 04-05 lockout and this one is the divide between the wealthy owners and the not-so-wealthy ones (like Wang). in 04-05, the owners were united. Now, they're not only battling the players, they're battling each other.

I read an article in the Globe and Mail that kinda shed light on the issue. The problem is that under the league bylaws, if 8 or more owners vote against a proposal, the proposal is dead and can't be presented to the players. Apparently, there are at least 8 big-market owners that are steadfast against revenue sharing (or at least sharing more revenue than they are now), with Jacobs in Boston and Snider in Philly leading the way, according to the article. If those two get six more owners to agree with them, no proposal with increased revenue sharing will come from the owners's side. That will simply prolong the lockout.

As with everything else in life, money = influence. The wealthy owners, even though they are in the minority, are driving these negotiations because they have all the pull. If they don't bend on revenue-sharing then not only will the players not bend, but the small-market owners have no incentive to bend either.

You really think we're losing as much money he says? I'm pretty sure all Wang is incorporating in his earnings is ticket sales, concessions and parking

Not other event parking or sales or concessions, not merchandise sales (off game day) not cable contract... Not to mention the NHL video software is his
- Danformo

Do you not believe Wang is losing money? Nobody has presented any documents to contradict that Wang is losing money nor has the NHLPA questioned it. It doesn't matter if he's losing $20M per year or $2M per year. He's still losing money. And I'm sure the other owners who say they are losing money are losing it as well.

The building generates no money. Its half-empty all year and has practically no luxury boxes or suites. The cable contract is sizable, but its not enough to sustain the team with no help from arena revenue. The revenue from the software is a separate pot. Its not factored in to the team's income.

didnt say sports teams are their main source of income. in fact if things were so tight for an owner that it was their main source, they should sell.

my point was that wang isnt losing 20MM a year...i dont care how rich you are, no one happily losses that kind of money on a consistent basis. owners arent there for hand outs to the poor.

and something else to think about, if wang is SOOO cheap as some claim to be, and he loves lowballing his players (read: mm (as some would like us to believe)) than why would he willingly lose 20 million a year?? cmon
- LetsGoIsles

Yeah, I agree...I guess ultimately we'll never know, but I always thought the $20m figure is/was inflated, and whatever the real number was, it has to be even less since the lease was re-negotiated in, what, 2010 or whenever, allowing for the Islanders to get revenue from parking and concessions, and from other events at the Coliseum. I'm sure he's not swimming in an Uncle Scrooge money vault with what he gets from the Islanders, and I'd also guess that whatever loss Wang had been taking on the team was considered money invested toward getting the rights to develop the land in Nassau.

But in the end, no one really knows anything about him, his current mindset, and his plans because he doesn't really say much publicly, except for when there's a rally or vote coming up. Other than that, there's silence, which honestly is probably what fuels most of the negative rumors about him in the first place. But I think my stand on "effective PR outreach" versus "information blackout" is well documented here.

Chris Botta @ChrisBottaNHL
On #Isles, possible NHL Seattle owner Don Levin to @CraigCustance - "They're not moving out of that market. No chance.

Chris Botta @ChrisBottaNHL
On #Isles, possible NHL Seattle owner Don Levin to @CraigCustance - "They're not moving out of that market. No chance.
- eichiefs9

interesting....

interesting....
- LetsGoIsles

The rest of it...

Not the Coyotes? Or maybe one day the Islanders? "My understanding is that the Phoenix deal, [Greg Jamison] has come up with the money," Levin said. "The answer to the Islanders moving is never. They're not moving out of that market. No chance that's going to happen."

The rest of it...

Not the Coyotes? Or maybe one day the Islanders? "My understanding is that the Phoenix deal,
- eichiefs9[Greg Jamison] has come up with the money," Levin said. "The answer to the Islanders moving is never. They're not moving out of that market. No chance that's going to happen."

I never once feared isles were moving. Brooklyn would have been the farthest they would go. But I don't thing Wang wants to sell them. It's his baby.

True he lost alot few years back but has minimized the bleeding for now with the salary cuts.

He'll spend again when time is right.

I'm glad people here agree, yes even millionaires don't like losing money. I don't think anyone does.

Let's hope this is settled soon. Players are greedy. Owners are dumb for making us pay more to watch. Their has to be a balance.

I never once feared isles were moving. Brooklyn would have been the farthest they would go. But I don't thing Wang wants to sell them. It's his baby.
True he lost alot few years back but has minimized the bleeding for now with the salary cuts.

He'll spend again when time is right.

I'm glad people here agree, yes even millionaires don't like losing money. I don't think anyone does.

Let's hope this is settled soon. Players are greedy. Owners are dumb for making us pay more to watch. Their has to be a balance.
- Spartiarti

He should be arrested for neglect and child abuse.

I never once feared isles were moving. Brooklyn would have been the farthest they would go. But I don't thing Wang wants to sell them. It's his baby.

True he lost alot few years back but has minimized the bleeding for now with the salary cuts.

He'll spend again when time is right.

I'm glad people here agree, yes even millionaires don't like losing money. I don't think anyone does.

Let's hope this is settled soon. Players are greedy. Owners are dumb for making us pay more to watch. Their has to be a balance.
- Spartiarti

I never really thought they were going anywhere either, but it's nice to get word from someone who's actively seeking to buy an NHL franchise, and move them, that the Isles are staying put.

Jeff Marek @JeffMarek
After 20mins - McDavid (2015) looks excellent but Ryan Strome (NYI) is the best player on the ice this game so far. 2-1 Otters

Tavares considering Europe (update)
5:49
PM ET
John Tavares | Islanders
RECOMMEND0COMMENTS0EMAIL

UPDATE: Forward John Tavares has apparently moved beyond the early consideration stage in regards to playing overseas.

David Pagnotta of The Fourth Period, as of late Thursday afternoon:

"... I've received confirmation that Islanders center John Tavares' reps are speaking to a team in the KHL, along with some in other leagues ..."

***

The top producer for the New York Islanders may spend part 2012-13 overseas.

Relaying a conversation with freelance writer Denis Gorman, IslandersPointBlank reports John Tavares said playing in Europe was an option:

"... definitely something I would consider ..."

The soon-to-be 22-year-old lead the Islanders with 81 points this past season.

- Victoria Matiash

didnt say sports teams are their main source of income. in fact if things were so tight for an owner that it was their main source, they should sell.

my point was that wang isnt losing 20MM a year...i dont care how rich you are, no one happily losses that kind of money on a consistent basis. owners arent there for hand outs to the poor.

and something else to think about, if wang is SOOO cheap as some claim to be, and he loves lowballing his players (read: mm (as some would like us to believe)) than why would he willingly lose 20 million a year?? cmon
- LetsGoIsles

Not arguing your post, but Wang has plenty of other business ventures, and losing money on the isles is a tax write off for him. Not saying it makes things equal, but its an easier pill to swallow if he's able to write off his islander losses.

Tavares considering Europe (update)
5:49
PM ET
John Tavares | Islanders
RECOMMEND0COMMENTS0EMAIL

UPDATE: Forward John Tavares has apparently moved beyond the early consideration stage in regards to playing overseas.

David Pagnotta of The Fourth Period, as of late Thursday afternoon:

"... I've received confirmation that Islanders center John Tavares' reps are speaking to a team in the KHL, along with some in other leagues ..."

***

The top producer for the New York Islanders may spend part 2012-13 overseas.

Relaying a conversation with freelance writer Denis Gorman, IslandersPointBlank reports John Tavares said playing in Europe was an option:

"... definitely something I would consider ..."

The soon-to-be 22-year-old lead the Islanders with 81 points this past season.

- Victoria Matiash
- brodydog29

Watch JT get hurt.....yikes

Do you not believe Wang is losing money? Nobody has presented any documents to contradict that Wang is losing money nor has the NHLPA questioned it. It doesn't matter if he's losing $20M per year or $2M per year. He's still losing money. And I'm sure the other owners who say they are losing money are losing it as well.

The building generates no money. Its half-empty all year and has practically no luxury boxes or suites. The cable contract is sizable, but its not enough to sustain the team with no help from arena revenue. The revenue from the software is a separate pot. Its not factored in to the team's income.
- Jethro09

All told, Wangs a smart guy..........im pretty sure he's not losing as much as he says. Regardless the isles are not in the green at year end. Either way, Wang is a shady cat......just ask Sanjay Kumar.

maybe they should just "tighten money each year"....?

and your statement is 100% true, if small market teams are lOsing money every year than it WOULD make sense that they would prefer a lock out.

thats a big "if"....i highly doubt the owners who (for the most part) worked hard to make MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars would throw it away and consistently lose money just for the sake of owning a professional sports team. i dont believe it. its much easier to buy season tickets and not have the hassle of owning a sports club.
- LetsGoIsles

Im sure a lot of these teams fudge numbers to look as if they're taking a bigger hit than they actually are, to get the bigger write off.

The biggest difference between the 04-05 lockout and this one is the divide between the wealthy owners and the not-so-wealthy ones (like Wang). in 04-05, the owners were united. Now, they're not only battling the players, they're battling each other.

I read an article in the Globe and Mail that kinda shed light on the issue. The problem is that under the league bylaws, if 8 or more owners vote against a proposal, the proposal is dead and can't be presented to the players. Apparently, there are at least 8 big-market owners that are steadfast against revenue sharing (or at least sharing more revenue than they are now), with Jacobs in Boston and Snider in Philly leading the way, according to the article. If those two get six more owners to agree with them, no proposal with increased revenue sharing will come from the owners's side. That will simply prolong the lockout.




As with everything else in life, money = influence. The wealthy owners, even though they are in the minority, are driving these negotiations because they have all the pull. If they don't bend on revenue-sharing then not only will the players not bend, but the small-market owners have no incentive to bend either.
- Jethro09

How badly of a hit does the NHL take if this season gets cancelled? Im dumbfounded. It reminds me of two parents getting divorced and using the kids to get back at each other. The kids being us fans, who are the big losers....