I'm not sure what you mean by replacement value. I think most teams would prefer the two way center with Selke level defensive skills over the one way point producing 3C.
- MJL

If both continue to develop, means Frost continues to put up points, means he becomes better driving possession. Frost skill level is higher than Cates. For a team that has been skill deprived, a Frost in his prime will be more difficult to replace than cates. I like both and Cates for sure plays a smart game, but the likelihood of players coming up replacing Cates is higher, in my opinion.

Again, both continue to improve, there is just more upside to Frost improving for me. That said, all depends on how the chips fall will prospects and where and who they draft.

It was time for him to go
- ClaudeFather

I don't disagree at all and I'm not in the camp that Sanheim is a better player than Provorov. I'm in the camp that Sanheim is a better player than many think he is. He had a subpar year last year offensively. Didn't push play and attack as well as he is capable of and has shown in past seasons. He was fine defensively. Needs to pick it up this season. The Flyers desperately need his transition play.

If they can get thru camp healthy, the Flyers can start the season with a 22 man roster and $2.5m in cap space just by demoting Sandstrom and Foerster. And that's with Ellis on IR, not LTIR.

https://www.capfriendly.c.../armchair-gm/team/4561252
- Feanor

Yep, The Flyers will not have to sniff LTIR unless something major happens. Good on Briere getting it done, even with them having to carry Hayes, Deangelo, and Lindblom buyouts.

And I think Allison and Sandstrom will be the guys going down. Foerster is a Flyer IMO.

If they can get thru camp healthy, the Flyers can start the season with a 22 man roster and $2.5m in cap space just by demoting Sandstrom and Foerster. And that's with Ellis on IR, not LTIR.

https://www.capfriendly.c.../armchair-gm/team/4561252
- Feanor

The Flyers are going to want to be as close to the upper limit as possible coming out of camp with Ellis on the IR

Looks like the worst D partnerships by 5on5 goals last season were:

Sanheim-Angelo: 12 GF, 19 GA (38.71 GF%)

Provy-Risto: 7 GF, 17 GA (29.17 GF%)

Provy-Sanheim: 2 GF, 6 GA (25 GF%)

And we'll never have to see those pairings ever again.

The Flyers are going to want to be as close to the upper limit as possible coming out of camp with Ellis on the active roster.
- MJL

I don't think that matters unless they get a bunch more injuries. They should be able to stay well under the ceiling and bank space all season.

Yep, The Flyers will not have to sniff LTIR unless something major happens. Good on Briere getting it done, even with them having to carry Hayes, Deangelo, and Lindblom buyouts.

And I think Allison and Sandstrom will be the guys going down. Foerster is a Flyer IMO.
- MBFlyerfan

My roster has Lacznyski on it, so I highly doubt Allison will be waived before him. It also has room for another forward if they want to carry 14 of them.

I don't disagree at all and I'm not in the camp that Sanheim is a better player than Provorov. I'm in the camp that Sanheim is a better player than many think he is. He had a subpar year last year offensively. Didn't push play and attack as well as he is capable of and has shown in past seasons. He was fine defensively. Needs to pick it up this season. The Flyers desperately need his transition play.
- MJL

I don’t dislike Sanheim, he’s a fine Dman. The contract wasn’t great, but it is what it is now

I don't think that matters unless they get a bunch more injuries. They should be able to stay well under the ceiling and bank space all season.
- Feanor

It is inevitable barring any major trades that the Flyers will be in LTIR this season. They're going to want to maximize LTIR cap space.

If both continue to develop, means Frost continues to put up points, means he becomes better driving possession. Frost skill level is higher than Cates. For a team that has been skill deprived, a Frost in his prime will be more difficult to replace than cates. I like both and Cates for sure plays a smart game, but the likelihood of players coming up replacing Cates is higher, in my opinion.

Again, both continue to improve, there is just more upside to Frost improving for me. That said, all depends on how the chips fall will prospects and where and who they draft.
- wcorvette

I believe a team would value a player like Cates more at 3C then a player like Frost.

Is that what you're looking for from a head coach? Enthusiasm and personality. Then there is the question of his idiosyncrasies and borderline schizophrenia of his personality. Not sure how that wins someone over.
- MJL

Is that what you got from that post? If you read what I said, I stated that when Torts came here he initially won me over with his enthusiasm and his personality... but I clearly stated that I was probably correct in my initial beliefs; Torts is not good for the organization, as he is unable to utilize the players he is given, and in fact, destroys some players rather than finding ways to work with them... Although I do not believe he will be dismissed, I alluded to my belief that he cannot succeed here with his manner of coaching.

I am actually in agreement with your past negative comments on Torts... whether you see that or not... but I guess that is an impossibility. 🥴

Looks like the worst D partnerships by 5on5 goals last season were:

Sanheim-Angelo: 12 GF, 19 GA (38.71 GF%)

Provy-Risto: 7 GF, 17 GA (29.17 GF%)

Provy-Sanheim: 2 GF, 6 GA (25 GF%)

And we'll never have to see those pairings ever again.
- Feanor

We're going to see the same bad results from whatever pairing plays first line minutes this upcoming season. If not worse.

Nope, Sanheim's GA/60 at 5 on 5 was significantly better than York's.
- MJL

TS gf-46 ga-50
CY gf-38 ga-38

CY higher FF%, higher GF %.

if we are just cherry picking stats.

This team is eons away from having a logjam at center, it’s absolutely a non issue.

Will Couts be able to play effectively over the next few years? Will Cates stay at center or will the next coach move him back to wing? Will Frost still be here 2 years from now? Will Gauthier be primarily a center or wing at the NHL level? Will Michkov move to center or stay at wing?

None of us know the answers to the above questions, but I do know this. One of the most successful eras of Flyers hockey was from 1984-1989. During that era, all of the following players were guys that started their NHL careers at center.
Dave Poulin
Tim Kerr
Peter Zezel
Murray Craven
Ron Sutter
Pelle Eklund
Lindsay Carson

Yet there was never a logjam at center. In fact, the one thing those teams badly needed was a legit 1C!

Worrying about a logjam at any position years down the road is a waste of time and kind of silly. These things have a way of working themselves out.

Is that what you got from that post? If you read what I said, I stated that when Torts came here he initially won me over with his enthusiasm and his personality... but I clearly stated that I was probably correct in my initial beliefs; Torts is not good for the organization, as he is unable to utilize the players he is given, and in fact, destroys some players rather than finding ways to work with them... Although I do not believe he will be dismissed, I alluded to my belief that he cannot succeed here with his manner of coaching.

I am actually in agreement with your past negative comments on Torts... whether you see that or not... but I guess that is an impossibility. 🥴
- ForeverFlyer16

Yea I got that. How did you get from my post that I didn't get that? I follow that. I just commented on the personality and enthusiasm part.

We're going to see the same bad results from whatever pairing plays first line minutes this upcoming season. If not worse.
- MJL

I’m interested in seeing what Sanheim can do as our default number one but I’m not optimistic. Should we be?

TS gf-46 ga-50
CY gf-38 ga-38

CY higher FF%, higher GF %.

if we are just cherry picking stats.
- Peter Richards

You obviously don't understand what /60 is and that Sanheim played 1391:34 at 5 on 5 versus 900:33 for York.

This team is eons away from having a logjam at center, it’s absolutely a non issue.

Will Couts be able to play effectively over the next few years? Will Cates stay at center or will the next coach move him back to wing? Will Frost still be here 2 years from now? Will Gauthier be primarily a center or wing at the NHL level? Will Michkov move to center or stay at wing?

None of us know the answers to the above questions, but I do know this. One of the most successful eras of Flyers hockey was from 1984-1989. During that era, all of the following players were guys that started their NHL careers at center.
Dave Poulin
Tim Kerr
Peter Zezel
Murray Craven
Ron Sutter
Pelle Eklund
Lindsay Carson

Yet there was never a logjam at center. In fact, the one thing those teams badly needed was a legit 1C!

Worrying about a logjam at any position years down the road is a waste of time and kind of silly. These things have a way of working themselves out.
- BiggE

The context was a future hypothetical and whether a future decision on what to do at the center spot could be made difficult if certain things happen.

You obviously don't understand what /60 is and that Sanheim played 1391:34 at 5 on 5 versus 900:33 for York.
- MJL

lmao, so is that the only stat to look at? Point is one stat does not tell or paint the whole picture. objectively, not subjectively.

What's the points expectation for Frost?
- hello it's me 2050

No reason he can't be in the 50-55 range. The skill is there. Depends on how his ice time is used.

If they can get thru camp healthy, the Flyers can start the season with a 22 man roster and $2.5m in cap space just by demoting Sandstrom and Foerster. And that's with Ellis on IR, not LTIR.

https://www.capfriendly.c.../armchair-gm/team/4561252
- Feanor

Yep, The Flyers will not have to sniff LTIR unless something major happens. Good on Briere getting it done, even with them having to carry Hayes, Deangelo, and Lindblom buyouts.

And I think Allison and Sandstrom will be the guys going down. Foerster is a Flyer IMO.

lmao, so is that the only stat to look at? Point is one stat does not tell or paint the whole picture. objectively, not subjectively.
- Peter Richards

LMAO. Nobody has said that it does. When looking at how a player defended, GA/60 is a very relevant stat. I guess you missed the post where I talked about how Sanheim had a subpar year on the offensive side of the puck. Which is where stats like CF% come in. Perhaps you should review the thread.

Yea I got that. How did you get from my post that I didn't get that? I follow that. I just commented on the personality and enthusiasm part.
- MJL

This is the entirety of your response to my post... how am I not to get that your response was what you got from my post... when it is what you responded?

Is that what you're looking for from a head coach? Enthusiasm and personality. Then there is the question of his idiosyncrasies and borderline schizophrenia of his personality. Not sure how that wins someone over.
- MJL

I gather it may have been a rhetorical response... had you led with "I agree... but if they want enthusiasm and personality............." I probably wouldn't have thought that that was what you mainly got from my post.

Then we are in agreement. 👍

If Frost steps up and is a point producing first line center. Couturier comes back and plays well, Cates continues his strong play and Gauthier plays center and meets his top 5 potential, what would you do?
- MJL

Talk the Boston next year when they have a boatload of cap space and work out a deal, for picks and maybe a low end prospect.

Sanheim can go to either the Jets or Flames, there's a deal to be made with both teams.

My roster has Lacznyski on it, so I highly doubt Allison will be waived before him. It also has room for another forward if they want to carry 14 of them.
- Feanor

He needs to prove he deserves to be there. He looked atrocious last year. Hopefully he had a descent camp. But would like to see Elliott up again.