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Forums :: Blog World :: Sens Writer: Goaltending Options for Next Season
Author Message
HoweHatrick
Joined: 01.02.2014

Jun 2 @ 1:14 PM ET
Dorion pretty much said that DJ is gone on the radio yesterday, but can't do it until the team is bought. How awkward is that?
- CooCooKaChoo


Which interview are you referring to? TSN 1200? The one where he said he would make a recommendation to the new owner?
Sens Writer
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 08.19.2013

Jun 2 @ 2:41 PM ET
Seems we're about to get bumped off the main page, so please let me know if you'd like to put together the next blog for the Senators page. Otherwise, I'll try to have something put together at some point on the weekend.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 2 @ 3:15 PM ET
Seems we're about to get bumped off the main page, so please let me know if you'd like to put together the next blog for the Senators page. Otherwise, I'll try to have something put together at some point on the weekend.
- khawk


Yes please.

If the Sens move Debrincat (as Dorion hinted might happen) and they still operate next season as a full cap team, what upgrades should they be looking to add?
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Jun 2 @ 9:47 PM ET
Yes please.

If the Sens move Debrincat (as Dorion hinted might happen) and they still operate next season as a full cap team, what upgrades should they be looking to add?

- spatso


My Ottawa Senators Depth Chart (not lines)

Brady Tkachuk - Tim Stutzle - Claude Giroux
Alex DeBrincat - Josh Norris - Drake Batherson
Mathieu Joseph - Shane Pinto - Julien Gauthier
Egor Sokolov - Ridly Grieg - Tyler Boucher
Parker Kelly - Mark Kastelic - Dylan Gambrell?

Thomas Chabot - Jakob Chychrun
Jake Sanderson - Artem Zub
Eric Brannstrom - Jacob Bernard-Docker
Tyler Kleven - Lassi Thomson

Anton Forsberg
Mads Sogaard
Kevin Mandolese

Mathieu Joseph: Having a player on a young team with a cup ring is always a good thing. He had a great rookie season and even better start with Ottawa last year but he is not playing up to his contract. I like he can kill penalties but there's a lot more with MJ imo and he needs to bring it or trade him.

Alex DeBrincat: Yes he has scored 40 goals twice but him making more than 8m is just not smart. Dorion should've saw this coming when he acquired him. I don't know what concerns me more - being the shortest guy I've ever seen play for the Sens OR he gives me so many Bobby Ryan vibes. If he isn't scoring, what else can he do? He isn't a center, he isn't big, he isn't a max domi type, he doesn't play a lick of PK time, not blocking shots like Watson, Stutzle, Pinto, or Gambrell. I would offer him 8 years @7.95 (Norris contract) and if he refused I may go up to 8.175 but I'm not giving him what Brady is getting. I would already be shopping him all day everyday

Anton Forsberg: He needs to have a huge bounce back season or we need a true #1 goalie, Dorion tries to spin crazy but Talbot was a huge swing and a miss - not to mention the dumb move of giving up on a young promising goalie
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 3 @ 6:49 PM ET
So, Bettman thinks up to a couple weeks before new ownership can be named. Plus, 6 to 8 weeks more for the closing. August 1 may be about right.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 3 @ 7:20 PM ET
Bettman says NHL revenue near $6b.

Means cap would be $93.750m. But escrow likely means a hold back for another year and we will probably see a cap of $85m for this year and $96m next year.
HoweHatrick
Joined: 01.02.2014

Jun 4 @ 10:46 AM ET
A few months ago, I mentioned team elected arbitration as a probable option for the Sens if DeBrincat has a contract ask they cannot work with. If a trade is not worked out before or at the draft, I still think this is the most likely outcome with a subsequent trade being factored in.

Elliotte Friedman

On Alex DeBrincat and the idea of “cut-rate” arbitration: If a team elects to go through this process, it can argue for a salary reduction — which can’t be lower than 85 per cent of the previous season’s salary. When New Jersey traded for Timo Meier, multiple sources said they believed that’s exactly what the Devils would do if: a) they kept the winger in 2023-24 and b) he hadn’t signed an extension. So, in theory, Meier could drop from $10 million in 2022-23 to $8.5 million, and DeBrincat from $9 million to $7.65 million. Colorado went down this road with Ryan O’Reilly in 2014, before agreeing on a two-year extension. (The first season of that contract actually saw a drop from $6.5 million to $5.8 million.) It’s rare, but it happens. But does it happen with someone you want to keep?

https://www.sportsnet.ca/...-leafs-gm-brad-treliving/
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 4 @ 11:54 AM ET
A few months ago, I mentioned team elected arbitration as a probable option for the Sens if DeBrincat has a contract ask they cannot work with. If a trade is not worked out before or at the draft, I still think this is the most likely outcome with a subsequent trade being factored in.

Elliotte Friedman

On Alex DeBrincat and the idea of “cut-rate” arbitration: If a team elects to go through this process, it can argue for a salary reduction — which can’t be lower than 85 per cent of the previous season’s salary. When New Jersey traded for Timo Meier, multiple sources said they believed that’s exactly what the Devils would do if: a) they kept the winger in 2023-24 and b) he hadn’t signed an extension. So, in theory, Meier could drop from $10 million in 2022-23 to $8.5 million, and DeBrincat from $9 million to $7.65 million. Colorado went down this road with Ryan O’Reilly in 2014, before agreeing on a two-year extension. (The first season of that contract actually saw a drop from $6.5 million to $5.8 million.) It’s rare, but it happens. But does it happen with someone you want to keep?

https://www.sportsnet.ca/...-leafs-gm-brad-treliving/

- HoweHatrick


Makes a lot of sense. I think it indicates Sens still have lots of leverage regardless of the direction they choose to follow. More and more I am thinking the Sens might want to spend the $8m cap on a different player than DeBrincat. I am strongly leaning in the direction of a power forward that can take some of weight off of Tkachuk.
GrimmdaGoalie
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 01.07.2016

Jun 4 @ 11:59 AM ET

Anton Forsberg: He needs to have a huge bounce back season or we need a true #1 goalie, Dorion tries to spin crazy but Talbot was a huge swing and a miss - not to mention the dumb move of giving up on a young promising goalie

- AlfieisKing


The huge swing and miss was the Murray contract.

The Talbot deal made total sense at the time. You could make the argument that our D wasn't figured out until it was too late and until he was already injured. It was a down year for him too...and it only really hurts when u see how Gus flourished under a better coach and defensive system.

But PD is now 0-2 on goaltending moves. This summer he has to get it right.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 5 @ 7:21 AM ET
The huge swing and miss was the Murray contract.

The Talbot deal made total sense at the time. You could make the argument that our D wasn't figured out until it was too late and until he was already injured. It was a down year for him too...and it only really hurts when u see how Gus flourished under a better coach and defensive system.

But PD is now 0-2 on goaltending moves. This summer he has to get it right.

- GrimmdaGoalie


I think it is Forsburg and Sogaard.

Sens are close to being fully capped out at around $83.5m if they sign DeBrincat $9.0, Pinto $5.0, Watson $1.5, Gauthier $1.2, Braanstrom $1.4 and JBD $1.0. Further assumes Grieg and Kleven make team off their current entry level deals. Sens could make a few moves on the edges to bring back Hamonic and/or Brassard. But, there is not much cap space for an upgrade in goal. They would need to move out equivalent dollars in order to add a full midrange salary for a goaltender.

Don't forget they will need to add another contract in the $8m. range for Sanderson next year and likely a similar deal for Chychrun for the year after that.

I wonder, is Dorion as keen to sign DeBrincat as he is telling everyone?
Octavarium
New York Islanders
Joined: 01.03.2007

Jun 5 @ 7:39 AM ET
AlfiesKing.
I don't mind your line up. But some of it is overly ambitious given how this coach operates.

Parker Kelly should never play in the NHL again. Dylan Gambrell...is an rfa but I feel he's being packaged up and moved along.

Your defense is what we all hoped we'd see. But Smith has goofed around so much with the kids who knows if Thompson's and JBD's confidence has been destroyed and if they'll ever play in the NHL. Both of those players were not "Jake Sanderson top5ers" they were "mid 1st round---get there eventually" type players. The coach and gm have groomed these two BADLY.
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Jun 5 @ 10:43 AM ET
AlfiesKing.
I don't mind your line up. But some of it is overly ambitious given how this coach operates.

Parker Kelly should never play in the NHL again. Dylan Gambrell...is an rfa but I feel he's being packaged up and moved along.

Your defense is what we all hoped we'd see. But Smith has goofed around so much with the kids who knows if Thompson's and JBD's confidence has been destroyed and if they'll ever play in the NHL. Both of those players were not "Jake Sanderson top5ers" they were "mid 1st round---get there eventually" type players. The coach and gm have groomed these two BADLY.

- Octavarium
Respect your opinion. I agree, I don't ever want to see Gambrell play another game for Ottawa. Parker Kelly plays a strong game but I don't think he's ready to play a high number of NHL games.

I agree with Thomson and JBD - it's really messed up how they won't play and then JBD will play with Chabot
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Jun 5 @ 2:54 PM ET
I think it is Forsburg and Sogaard.

Sens are close to being fully capped out at around $83.5m if they sign DeBrincat $9.0, Pinto $5.0, Watson $1.5, Gauthier $1.2, Braanstrom $1.4 and JBD $1.0. Further assumes Grieg and Kleven make team off their current entry level deals. Sens could make a few moves on the edges to bring back Hamonic and/or Brassard. But, there is not much cap space for an upgrade in goal. They would need to move out equivalent dollars in order to add a full midrange salary for a goaltender.

Don't forget they will need to add another contract in the $8m. range for Sanderson next year and likely a similar deal for Chychrun for the year after that.

I wonder, is Dorion as keen to sign DeBrincat as he is telling everyone?

- spatso

Pinto should be signed 2-3 years @3.5M range - not 5
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Jun 5 @ 2:59 PM ET
The huge swing and miss was the Murray contract.

The Talbot deal made total sense at the time. You could make the argument that our D wasn't figured out until it was too late and until he was already injured. It was a down year for him too...and it only really hurts when u see how Gus flourished under a better coach and defensive system.

But PD is now 0-2 on goaltending moves. This summer he has to get it right.

- GrimmdaGoalie

Big time agree!

Look at what the Sens have done:

Drafted a superstar in Mika Zibanejad. Traded him for Derrick Brassard, then traded him for who? Filip Gustavsson. Then we give this young goalie up to MIN - nothing to show for it after this month

GrimmdaGoalie
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 01.07.2016

Jun 6 @ 11:00 AM ET
AlfiesKing.
I don't mind your line up. But some of it is overly ambitious given how this coach operates.

Parker Kelly should never play in the NHL again. Dylan Gambrell...is an rfa but I feel he's being packaged up and moved along.

Your defense is what we all hoped we'd see. But Smith has goofed around so much with the kids who knows if Thompson's and JBD's confidence has been destroyed and if they'll ever play in the NHL. Both of those players were not "Jake Sanderson top5ers" they were "mid 1st round---get there eventually" type players. The coach and gm have groomed these two BADLY.

- Octavarium


Begs the question....do the Sens have the worst 4th line in the NHL?

In other news....Friedman reporting Sens looking to deal Debrincat. Posturing to force a deal or moved by draft?
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Jun 6 @ 1:11 PM ET
Begs the question....do the Sens have the worst 4th line in the NHL?

In other news....Friedman reporting Sens looking to deal Debrincat. Posturing to force a deal or moved by draft?

- GrimmdaGoalie

Do the Sens have the worst 4th line? Hard to say. I think the bottom 6 of the Sens was REALLY in trouble because Pinto moved up. Having Norris back is huge but he needs to live up to his contract. He needs to be a big time two-way threat, which is he more than capable of doing.

DeBrincat - man this is frustrating. The Sens made the deal last summer and we were all going crazy that a 40 goal scorer was coming to Ottawa (myself included to an extent). But let's be honest, his camp is likely seeing 8.5-9.5m per season which is absolutely nuts. We aren't talking about a 20-22 year old player like Tkachuk or Stutzle were when they signed.
HoweHatrick
Joined: 01.02.2014

Jun 6 @ 1:13 PM ET
Report: Sens exploring trade market for DeBrincat

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/re...-alex-debrincat-1.1969771

Bartacus
Ottawa Senators
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 01.08.2019

Jun 6 @ 1:22 PM ET
Begs the question....do the Sens have the worst 4th line in the NHL?

In other news....Friedman reporting Sens looking to deal Debrincat. Posturing to force a deal or moved by draft?

- GrimmdaGoalie


I was checking stats last night, wasn't aware how heavily penalized Watson, Kastelic, and Kelly were last season. We're fortunate our special teams outplayed our 5 on 5 because that line put us shorthanded more than any other line in the NHL. Ottawa led the league with the most penalties this season. The most major penalties. Following the Sens you have both Florida teams. The difference is, you think of those two Florida teams as 'hard to play against' - grinders. Scat disturbers. You don't get that from Ottawa, which begs the question, why do we ice these guys?
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Jun 6 @ 9:22 PM ET
Pierre Dorion traded the following for Alex DeBrincat:

2022 7th Overall Pick - D Kevin Korchinski
2022 39th Overall Pick - C Paul Ludwinski
2024 3rd Round Pick

Detroit Red Wings have 2 Top 17 picks and 5 in the top 43. (9, 17, 41, 42, 43). Any deal you see there?

Octavarium
New York Islanders
Joined: 01.03.2007

Jun 7 @ 7:51 AM ET
I was also very excited about the DeBrincat acquisition.
Unfortunate that he appears to be getting traded.

And everyone knows that Dorion is now dealing from a weak position. He'll get 2nd round picks back trading him before the draft. Not first rounders. If it was me, i would qualify him at 9 and let him play his way out of it. Play out all the scenarios of that:

1. He scores 40+ partnered with better people, second year with the team, ends the year with 80+ points. The team is having success. We offer him a new contract before the trade deadline he accepts.

2. He is on pace to score 25+, end up with around 70 points (like this season) the team is having success. We offer him a more team friendly longer term deal, he accepts...we keep him....he rejects....we trade him at the trade deadline.

3. He is on pace to be crap. The team is crap. He gets hurt. Some kind of worst case scenario. We are left with an asset we can't move at the deadline. And now he's a UFA and won't accept a deal, we lose him for nothing.
GrimmdaGoalie
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 01.07.2016

Jun 7 @ 2:38 PM ET
I think Debrincat was brought in to excite the fan base and increase the value of the team and help push for a playoff. First two happened.

2nd line wingers are not worth $8 + million a year.

I can see a deal being done with Buff or Det. Only teams south of the border.

But, the better bet is to hold on to him. Get more for him at the deadline, and maybe he bounces back and help for the push for the playoffs.

Frankie Corrado has good analysis over at tsn.ca
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Jun 7 @ 4:13 PM ET
I was also very excited about the DeBrincat acquisition.
Unfortunate that he appears to be getting traded.

And everyone knows that Dorion is now dealing from a weak position. He'll get 2nd round picks back trading him before the draft. Not first rounders. If it was me, i would qualify him at 9 and let him play his way out of it. Play out all the scenarios of that:

1. He scores 40+ partnered with better people, second year with the team, ends the year with 80+ points. The team is having success. We offer him a new contract before the trade deadline he accepts.

2. He is on pace to score 25+, end up with around 70 points (like this season) the team is having success. We offer him a more team friendly longer term deal, he accepts...we keep him....he rejects....we trade him at the trade deadline.

3. He is on pace to be crap. The team is crap. He gets hurt. Some kind of worst case scenario. We are left with an asset we can't move at the deadline. And now he's a UFA and won't accept a deal, we lose him for nothing.

- Octavarium

I disagree

More teams will be circling right now. More cap space. Benefit of having him for a full year. Also I am sure a team will have rights to resign him to a 8 year deal.
SensFan25
Ottawa Senators
Location: ON
Joined: 08.24.2006

Jun 7 @ 11:43 PM ET
I disagree

More teams will be circling right now. More cap space. Benefit of having him for a full year. Also I am sure a team will have rights to resign him to a 8 year deal.

- AlfieisKing

Yup. Now is the time to trade him as other teams have maximum salary cap flexibility to sign Debrincat plus 2023 draft picks can be part of the package. Ottawa also has the extra cap space to add a goalie or a forward.
Octavarium
New York Islanders
Joined: 01.03.2007

Jun 8 @ 7:22 AM ET
and he and his agent have given a list of teams he'd be willing to play for. Probably the same list Kane's agent has put out there. Someone will sign them both.

Im hoping for picks back. Our cupboard is bare.
Octavarium
New York Islanders
Joined: 01.03.2007

Jun 8 @ 8:13 AM ET
To STL:

Alex DeBrincat
Alex Forminton
Anton Forsberg

To OTT:

Jake Neighbors
Tyler Pitlick
Jordan Binnington a million a year retained (if he agrees to waive his NMC)
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