Well having bad games when jobs are on the line isn’t a good recipe to make a team, is it?
- ClaudeFather

When you say it like that, it shouldn’t be.

When you say it like that, it shouldn’t be.
- iamscore2day

Yea, just ignore all my previous posts, these guys will try and argue this until the end of time. The right call was made, the kid is back up and playing well

You keep coming back to this nonsense about last year. It’s a young player, playing defense, just because he played well last year doesn’t mean he can’t have a stall or even step back in his progression. He was struggling this pre season, the correct call was made. You know who else looked good for half a season at a young age , Phil Myers. How’s he doing?
- ClaudeFather

Speaking of nonsense. I haven't once stated that a young player, playing defense can't have a stall or even a step back in progression. What I have stated is that a few sub-par pre season games did not warrant sending him to the AHL. He proved last season in the 30 games he played and the games he played when he came back up that he was fully capable of playing in the NHL. Some want to believe that he lost that ability for the time he was sent down. He didn't. It was a mistake by the Flyers. Luckily not one that did damage.

Yea, just ignore all my previous posts, these guys will try and argue this until the end of time. The right call was made, the kid is back up and playing well
- ClaudeFather

MMQBs 4 ever.

His game was struggling, can’t deny that. Whether he lost his confidence or not I guess the player can only know, but his play was bad. The team made the correct call, there is no reason to force the kid in the NHL when we had the option of sending him down and him playing himself into a better spot.
- ClaudeFather

Wait, you stated earlier that "It’s about the player finding his game, building his confidence, and then being physically and mentally prepared once the call up happens" Now you're waffling and that you guess only the player can know. Which is it?

Speaking of nonsense. I haven't once stated that a young player, playing defense can't have a stall or even a step back in progression. What I have stated is that a few sub-par pre season games did not warrant sending him to the AHL. He proved last season in the 30 games he played and the games he played when he came back up that he was fully capable of playing in the NHL. Some want to believe that he lost that ability for the time he was sent down. He didn't. It was a mistake by the Flyers. Luckily not one that did damage.
- MJL

This is comical, luckily one that did not do damage? How’s your high IQ guy Phil Myers doing? Those 40 games he played really did him wonders and bought him time the following years. 30 games shouldn’t buy you immunity from poor play, and it didn’t. You are wrong, just let it go.

Wait, you stated earlier that "It’s about the player finding his game, building his confidence, and then being physically and mentally prepared once the call up happens" Now you're waffling and that you guess only the player can know. Which is it?
- MJL

Now I’m waffling 😂 looked to me he lost some confidence. Not gonna speak for him. Everything I said Checks out. What’s your stance, he played 30 games 9 months ago?

MMQBs 4 ever.
- iamscore2day

All knowing

Lol this is an accurate sample size here but Morgan frost was only a first year pro after 100 games across 3 seasons. You see how this works
- ClaudeFather

You're conflating two different conversations. If you would ask me if York has reached his ceiling yet as a player, I would tell you the same thing and reference his games played. Many lost faith in Frost and incorrectly wanted to label him a bust. I believe you were one of those who did. I stated that Frost needed more games and playing time with better talented linemates in better situations. That seems to be playing out.

Speaking of nonsense. I haven't once stated that a young player, playing defense can't have a stall or even a step back in progression. What I have stated is that a few sub-par pre season games did not warrant sending him to the AHL. He proved last season in the 30 games he played and the games he played when he came back up that he was fully capable of playing in the NHL. Some want to believe that he lost that ability for the time he was sent down. He didn't. It was a mistake by the Flyers. Luckily not one that did damage.
- MJL

not it wasn't. It also wasn't just the games, why do you casually leave out the training camp portion?

You know what I mean. We’ve seen Provorov be successful logging heavy minutes in all situations. Whatever minutes DeAngelo was seeing last season in Carolina are the minutes he should be seeing now.
- SuperSchennBros

And give those minutes to whom? You really want Risto playing 22mins a game instead? York? Scratch Tony and bring Braun back in to play 18mins?

There's problems with every alternative. The puzzle is missing pieces.

The Ristolainen argument just seems more about blind dislike for the player. Most of it based on his time in Buffalo. In my opinion we didn’t get that same player. He isn’t in that same role and mercifully so. Buffalo was using Ristolainen as if he was the second coming of Shea Weber. He clearly isn’t.

As each game goes on, the argument is something different where we’re splitting hairs. Before was the lack of offense. Now he’s posting points. Giveaways don’t seem to be a problem, he’s making simple decisions. I know not many think much of the plus/minus stat but he was holding idle at minus 4 for along time, until he ended yesterday’s game as a plus 1, as DeAngelo’s plus/minus drops every game. Risto’s positioning doesn’t seem to be anything special but not hurting him.
- SuperSchennBros

I feel like you and jd250 are just being edgy/contrarian with regards to RR.

He's objectively bad. 10-years of observations and data show he's bad. He was still bad when he was scoring 40-points, that's how bad he was. He was bad last season here. He was bad earlier this season playing on the top line.

For the first time in his career a coach finally realized that he's better off as a 3rd-pairing guy, and he's settled down with the lighter load. He doesn't need more minutes.

Not sure I think you can dismiss the importance of accountability. Not a system per se but no plan, system, team or organization can function without it. I happen to agree that accountability is something JT has made a mandate and that is one of the reasons his team is playing better than the last few years.


- iamscore2day

I didn't dismiss the importance of accountability. I dismissed it as a function of a hockey system and strategy. Accountability is an intangible that of course is important to a team.

You're conflating two different conversations. If you would ask me if York has reached his ceiling yet as a player, I would tell you the same thing and reference his games played. Many lost faith in Frost and incorrectly wanted to label him a bust. I believe you were one of those who did. I stated that Frost needed more games and playing time with better talented linemates in better situations. That seems to be playing out.
- MJL

What’s an accurate sample size MJL? I never labeled him a bust, I was critical of his play due to consistency. He’s been much more consistent the past 20 games

not it wasn't. It also wasn't just the games, why do you casually leave out the training camp portion?
- hello it's me 2050

Did you see him back in March of 2022 though?

This is comical, luckily one that did not do damage? How’s your high IQ guy Phil Myers doing? Those 40 games he played really did him wonders and bought him time the following years. 30 games shouldn’t buy you immunity from poor play, and it didn’t. You are wrong, just let it go.
- ClaudeFather

Your reply here is not a reasonable argument.

Now I’m waffling 😂 looked to me he lost some confidence. Not gonna speak for him. Everything I said Checks out. What’s your stance, he played 30 games 9 months ago?
- ClaudeFather

You told me I had it wrong and you stated factually what the issue was. Now it seems as though you're not so confident in that opinion.

Your reply here is not a reasonable argument.
- MJL

You’ve lost an argument, again. Take a lap

You told me I had it wrong and you stated factually what the issue was. Now it seems as though you're not so confident in that opinion.
- MJL

Provide the evidence he deserved to make the NHL roster after his play in the pre season and training camp. You can’t , all you do is reference games 9 months ago in an extremely small sample size for a young player

I feel like you and jd250 are just being edgy/contrarian with regards to RR.

He's objectively bad. 10-years of observations and data show he's bad. He was still bad when he was scoring 40-points, that's how bad he was. He was bad last season here. He was bad earlier this season playing on the top line.

For the first time in his career a coach finally realized that he's better off as a 3rd-pairing guy, and he's settled down with the lighter load. He doesn't need more minutes.
- Tomahawk

Exactly. He hasn't improved. He's been put into a lesser role to where he's barely serviceable. The Flyers defensive zone system has limited his running around and taking himself out of position. If Braun hadn't aged and started to lose his wheels, he would be a better fit in the role that Ristolainen is in.

Well having bad games when jobs are on the line isn’t a good recipe to make a team, is it?
- ClaudeFather

Of course not. I wasn't surprised he was sent down. It made sense at the time given the circumstances.

I just take issue with the narrative that Camp Lappy somehow sorted him out, and that he'd be a mess today if Torts hadn't handed him a bus ticket.

Provide the evidence he deserved to make the NHL roster after his play in the pre season and training camp. You can’t , all you do is reference games 9 months ago in an extremely small sample size for a young player
- ClaudeFather

30 regular season NHL games easily trumps a few sub par pre-season games. It's larger sample size in more relevant games.

Of course not. I wasn't surprised he was sent down. It made sense at the time given the circumstances.

I just take issue with the narrative that Camp Lappy somehow sorted him out, and that he'd be a mess today if Torts hadn't handed him a bus ticket.
- Tomahawk

I’ve never said anything in regards to Lappy correcting his play

30 regular season NHL games easily trumps a few sub par pre-season games. It's larger sample size in more relevant games.
- MJL

Which one was more relevant to game 1 of the season?

I think these are all good points. In the final analysis, it is not the player’s fault that we decided to overpay him. For every poster on this board, if someone came to us, and want to over pay us for our respective jobs, we would say yes. The fault for that situation lies entirely on Chuckes and his man crush.
- iamscore2day

Does that remove the issue with a player regressing to where he is now a 3rd pair defenseman making 5M, that the team gave up multiple high draft picks for? You can't remove those issues when looking at the value of a player. It's part of the equation.

Which one was more relevant to game 1 of the season?
- ClaudeFather

The 30 past games for sure.