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Forums :: Blog World :: Mike Augello: Toronto’s Toughness Continues To Be An Issue; Leafs vs. Stars
Author Message
Woderwick
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: David Clarkson's Water Bottle, ON
Joined: 02.12.2013

Dec 7 @ 1:26 PM ET
Guy on TSN (the S stands for Sports):

4th best GA/60 pairing in the league (more than 130 minutes) belongs to Gio-Holl

Oh yeah, 3rd best was Sandin-Lilli

- Canada Cup

I luv them.
mr.sir
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
Joined: 01.18.2015

Dec 7 @ 1:27 PM ET
That settles it. We need Schenn
- Canada Cup

Niemela ++++++++++++
GreatGigInTheSky
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: "Yeah, Garth is a tool"- Garf, ON
Joined: 06.12.2017

Dec 7 @ 1:28 PM ET
He's only here to talk hockey
- winsix


winsix
Season Ticket Holder
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Henry Hudson's Fairchild 24 South Porcupine
Joined: 04.03.2016

Dec 7 @ 1:28 PM ET
That settles it. We need Schenn
- Canada Cup


If Schenn was a Leaf again, slow or not, I would do a happy dance if he laid one of these on Marchand or Perry.

https://twitter.com/Spoke...5E7f796b04ff2bdc6fce907c4
Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: “Give me Point, Cirelli and Paul all day against anybody.” Mr. Cooper , ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Dec 7 @ 1:32 PM ET
Yes. Cuz Lilly and Sandy just can’t handle the task.
- Woderwick

When he announced that Muzzin was out long term, Dubas said he was going to be watching those two to decide if they had to bring somebody in.
winsix
Season Ticket Holder
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Henry Hudson's Fairchild 24 South Porcupine
Joined: 04.03.2016

Dec 7 @ 1:34 PM ET
Depends on the person/player. Don’t have to be a giant to be a wrecking ball. Intimidation comes in many sizes and shapes.
- Woderwick


There are limitations to this. Just picture Kerfoot trying to cream Chara. He would bounce off him I would think. Timmins while not huge, stopped Benn in his tracks yesterday, Hollowell would have absolutely no chance to do this.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Dec 7 @ 1:39 PM ET
2009: Jesse Blacker in 3rd (1 NHL game)
- Atomic Wedgie


This surprised me. He was pretty hyped for a hot minute.
Cush29
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Who Owzzzzz da' Chiefs?, ON
Joined: 12.22.2014

Dec 7 @ 1:43 PM ET
There are limitations to this. Just picture Kerfoot trying to cream Chara. He would bounce off him I would think. Timmins while not huge, stopped Benn in his tracks yesterday, Hollowell would have absolutely no chance to do this.
- winsix


As soon as you mentioned Chara I thought of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZXGJYz8GMo

I was a huge Grabo fan when he was a Leaf and Chara was such a dirty F*%k.

Chara got away so much BS and people who claimed it was just because he was bigger than other guys are full of it.

The fact he was unhappy with the penalty he got (2 minutes for interference) says it all to me. Jack Edwards and his like have this on repeat while they run to get the tissues and the hand lotion.

God I hate the Bruins & most of their fans - Daffy excluded.

Wait I wonder if how I feel about Bruins fans is how so many other fan bases feel about Leafs fans!



jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Dec 7 @ 1:52 PM ET
Wait I wonder if how I feel about Bruins fans is how so many other fan bases feel about Leafs fans!
- Cush29



Only the delusional ones who have already awarded the Cup to the Leafs in early September every year.
senstroll
Location: New Fan, Needs to watch Ballet, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 7 @ 1:53 PM ET
this is wild..not sure if this was posted already

MoneyPuck.com
@MoneyPuckdotcom
With 5.979 goals saved above expected, Matt Murray's performance vs. Dallas is the best for a goalie in a shutout since modern stats started.

https://twitter.com/Money...&t=l7NygS-3_ZD2cfg__lYB3A


dmnted
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Space for Rent
Joined: 08.30.2006

Dec 7 @ 1:54 PM ET
This aged like milk, left out in the Sun on the hottest day of Summer, at the Equator.
- GreatGigInTheSky



making cottage cheese




and there might be a flag on the play. my bad
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Has anyone discussed the standings today?
Joined: 06.30.2006

Dec 7 @ 1:55 PM ET
My wife just stopped calling me
- Canada Cup


preferrable I think
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Has anyone discussed the standings today?
Joined: 06.30.2006

Dec 7 @ 1:56 PM ET
As soon as you mentioned Chara I thought of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZXGJYz8GMo

I was a huge Grabo fan when he was a Leaf and Chara was such a dirty F*%k.

Chara got away so much BS and people who claimed it was just because he was bigger than other guys are full of it.

The fact he was unhappy with the penalty he got (2 minutes for interference) says it all to me. Jack Edwards and his like have this on repeat while they run to get the tissues and the hand lotion.

God I hate the Bruins & most of their fans - Daffy excluded.

Wait I wonder if how I feel about Bruins fans is how so many other fan bases feel about Leafs fans!




- Cush29


Habs fans for me.

Not including most of them on these boards to be honest.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Dec 7 @ 2:00 PM ET
preferrable I think
- Aetherial


He's clearly a wizard
dmnted
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Space for Rent
Joined: 08.30.2006

Dec 7 @ 2:02 PM ET
100% correct... particularly come playoffs and long series against the same opponent - getting punished regularly wears you down - and changes your behaviors

hopefully what Dubas is looking for at the moment is a replacement for "good Muzzin" on defense... and a couple of forwards who can "re-inforce" the 3rd and 4th lines.

there's a reason that we aren't talking about Malgin anymore... because he's done exactly what O'Dog said he would do in the preseason broadcasts... dissappear over time - not picking on him individually but Malgin is symptomatic of guys who just can't keep it going for periods of time. And no - before someone makes an assinine comment ... you can't view guys like Malgin in preseason and assume they will play the same in the post season.

please get at least one robust winger with size and traditional stay at home defenseman with size prior to the post-season

- BorjeFan4Ever


The Leafs maybe waiting on the College kids to be done for some spots.
Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: “Give me Point, Cirelli and Paul all day against anybody.” Mr. Cooper , ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Dec 7 @ 2:03 PM ET
He's clearly a wizard
- jmatchett383

The voice just became weaker and weaker and then stopped completely. I’ll wait a few more days before checking
Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: “Give me Point, Cirelli and Paul all day against anybody.” Mr. Cooper , ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Dec 7 @ 2:06 PM ET
The Leafs maybe waiting on the College kids to be done for some spots.
- dmnted

Dubas has time and $. See where things stand at TDL and scratch the biggest itch
dmnted
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Space for Rent
Joined: 08.30.2006

Dec 7 @ 2:10 PM ET
The voice just became weaker and weaker and then stopped completely. I’ll wait a few more days before checking
- Canada Cup

that's not what you originally said
Monkeypunk
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Whenever, wherever, ON
Joined: 06.27.2013

Dec 7 @ 2:11 PM ET
Further to our conversation yesterday, the Leafs have a franking horrific track record of drafting and developing defencemen.

Here's the stats, going back 25 years of drafts:

1998: drafted three guys you never heard of (one was Petr Svoboda - no, not that Petr Svoboda) in the 2nd,6th and 8th rounds. 73 NHL games total.

1999: drafted five guys in the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 8th and 9th rounds. 8th rounder Pierre Hedin played 3 NHL games. Nobody else had a cup of coffee.

2000: 3 guys in the 7th, 7th and 9th. 9th rounder Jean-Philippe Cote played 27 games in the NHL. That is all.

2001: A stellar year for drafting D for the Leafs.
1st round Carlo Colaiacovo played 470 games
2nd round Karel Pilar played 90 games
3rd round Brendan Bell played 102 games (and signed my daughter's Leafs jersey with a Sharpie, despite me never asking him to)
6th round Maxim Kondratiev played 40 NHL games
8th round Tomas Mojzis played 17 games.

2002: 4 guys in rounds 3, 4, 6, 9. 6th rounder Ian White played 503 NHL games. 9th rounder Staffan Kronwall played 66.

2003: only D selected was John Doherty in the 2nd round. No NHL games.

2004: D drafted in the 5th and 7th rounds. No NHL games, but they got to hang out with Justin Pogge and Robbie Earl at the Leafs post-draft party.

2005: a weird one. Took Phil Oreskovic in the 2nd round, who played 10 NHL games. Then took a guy named Anton Stralman in the 7th round, who played 938 games.

2006: Leafs actually had a good draft this year, taking Tlusty, Kulemin, Remier, Viktor Stalberg and Leo Komarov. Like, wtf happened? Also took D Korbinian Holzer in the 4th round: 206 NHL games.

2007: Juraj Mikus in 5th round (0 NHL games) and Carl Gunnarsson in the 7th round (629 NHL games).

2008: Luke Schenn 5th overall - 889 games and counting. Greg Pateryn in 5th round - can't believe he played 290 games, Andrew MacWilliam in 7th round - 12 games. Really?

2009: Jesse Blacker in 3rd (1 NHL game), Eric Knodel in 5th (0 games), and interestingly, Barron Smith in 7th round. Isn't that the name Donald Trump used to lay bullpoop on a Forbes reporter?

2010: Petter Granberg in 4th round: 45 NHL games total. That is all.

2011: Stuart Percy in 1st round: 12 NHL games. Tom Nillson in 4th (0 games), Dennis Robertson in 6th (0 NHL games), Max Everson in 7th (0 NHL games). Burkie really was a master at the draft.

2012: Morgan Rielly 5th overall. Matt Finn in 2nd round (0 NHL games). Viktor Loov in 7th round (4 NHL games).

2013: No D selected, although we only had 5 picks. Awesome, Burkie.

2014: Rinat Valiev taken in 3rd round. 12 NHL games. No other D taken.

2015: Dermott in 2nd round. 268 NHL games. Other stiffs taken in 3rd, 4th, 6th - No NHL games.

2016: Stiffs taken in 3rd, 4th and 6th. Keaton Middleton played 3 NHL games. The rest, 0.

2017: Liljegren in 1st round. Finally, we start developing D!!!!!!!!! 3 other D selected - you will never hear from them again.

2018: Sandin! Durzi! Hollowell! Filip Kral!

I'll stop it there, because D need to develop, so I don't want to make fun of guys I have never heard of, and shouldn't be written off yet.

If it wasn't for picks at #5 overall (Rielly, Schenn) and some lucky 7th rounders, we wouldn't have produced any real NHL D at all for about 20 years.

This is why the Leafs have sucked for so long.

OK, this is one of the reasons why the Leafs have sucked for so long.

- Atomic Wedgie


What you have to do when you're looking at this stuff is evaluate based on GM and plan. Since the plan was also the same until Lou arrived, "Make a sneaky good trade and be good again," you really don't have to worry about that.

So. Under Fletcher/Waters/Dryden, Quinn, JFJ, Burke and Nonis the drafting was largely poor for any given position. Yeah, they hit on a couple here and there (Markov, Kaberle; Steen, Boyes and so on) - but for the most part they were drafting poorly or simply complimentary pieces that required more to the lineup for them to be effective and not overcommitted to a role they weren't able at or shouldn't have been placed in.

We drafted Kadri in 2009 who was probably the best player we'd drafted since Kaberle in 1996. It wasn't just defense. It was systemic from top-to-bottom. Organizationally, planning, scouting, targets, development and so on. If you don't know what type of player you want, you don't even know how to develop them.

But starting in 2015, this is the plan. This is what they are doing. Organizationally they have a cohesive plan for drafting, development and hopefully success. This is what you evaluate Shanahan, Dubas, and really Lou as well on in terms of what this team is. Nonis contributed Rielly, Nylander, Engvall - and technically Joey Anderson to this team. The rest starts in 2015, including who we drafted and who those players become.

As we measure our GMs, and their individual plans, Lou with Hunter ran 2015, 2016 and 2017. Dubas had input I know, but it's hard to separate them. I feel that someone like Rasanen was a Hunter pick, but someone as equally ineffective like Bracco was a Dubas pick. Ultimately we'll measure Dubas from 2018 onwards, and while they are young and very, very unknown, there are positives that we see in that development.
Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: “Give me Point, Cirelli and Paul all day against anybody.” Mr. Cooper , ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Dec 7 @ 2:14 PM ET
that's what you originally said
- dmnted

Just adding some colour
Woderwick
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: David Clarkson's Water Bottle, ON
Joined: 02.12.2013

Dec 7 @ 2:19 PM ET
When he announced that Muzzin was out long term, Dubas said he was going to be watching those two to decide if they had to bring somebody in.
- Canada Cup

“Holding…holding…still holding, aaaaannnd hold some more.”

From a really good movie, The Way Way Back.
Woderwick
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: David Clarkson's Water Bottle, ON
Joined: 02.12.2013

Dec 7 @ 2:19 PM ET
There are limitations to this. Just picture Kerfoot trying to cream Chara. He would bounce off him I would think. Timmins while not huge, stopped Benn in his tracks yesterday, Hollowell would have absolutely no chance to do this.
- winsix

Always exceptions.
Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: “Give me Point, Cirelli and Paul all day against anybody.” Mr. Cooper , ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Dec 7 @ 2:23 PM ET
Always exceptions.
- Woderwick

Didn’t Sandin just fling some Dallas dude to the ice last night?
Fakepartofme
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Living rent free... in your head, ON
Joined: 09.20.2010

Dec 7 @ 3:33 PM ET
Guy on TSN (the S stands for Sports):

4th best GA/60 pairing in the league (more than 130 minutes) belongs to Gio-Holl

Oh yeah, 3rd best was Sandin-Lilli

- Canada Cup

Thank gawd for Gio. Hes really helped to improve this dcore
winsix
Season Ticket Holder
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Henry Hudson's Fairchild 24 South Porcupine
Joined: 04.03.2016

Dec 7 @ 3:34 PM ET
Further to our conversation yesterday, the Leafs have a franking horrific track record of drafting and developing defencemen.

Here's the stats, going back 25 years of drafts:

1998: drafted three guys you never heard of (one was Petr Svoboda - no, not that Petr Svoboda) in the 2nd,6th and 8th rounds. 73 NHL games total.

1999: drafted five guys in the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 8th and 9th rounds. 8th rounder Pierre Hedin played 3 NHL games. Nobody else had a cup of coffee.

2000: 3 guys in the 7th, 7th and 9th. 9th rounder Jean-Philippe Cote played 27 games in the NHL. That is all.

2001: A stellar year for drafting D for the Leafs.
1st round Carlo Colaiacovo played 470 games
2nd round Karel Pilar played 90 games
3rd round Brendan Bell played 102 games (and signed my daughter's Leafs jersey with a Sharpie, despite me never asking him to)
6th round Maxim Kondratiev played 40 NHL games
8th round Tomas Mojzis played 17 games.

2002: 4 guys in rounds 3, 4, 6, 9. 6th rounder Ian White played 503 NHL games. 9th rounder Staffan Kronwall played 66.

2003: only D selected was John Doherty in the 2nd round. No NHL games.

2004: D drafted in the 5th and 7th rounds. No NHL games, but they got to hang out with Justin Pogge and Robbie Earl at the Leafs post-draft party.

2005: a weird one. Took Phil Oreskovic in the 2nd round, who played 10 NHL games. Then took a guy named Anton Stralman in the 7th round, who played 938 games.

2006: Leafs actually had a good draft this year, taking Tlusty, Kulemin, Remier, Viktor Stalberg and Leo Komarov. Like, wtf happened? Also took D Korbinian Holzer in the 4th round: 206 NHL games.

2007: Juraj Mikus in 5th round (0 NHL games) and Carl Gunnarsson in the 7th round (629 NHL games).

2008: Luke Schenn 5th overall - 889 games and counting. Greg Pateryn in 5th round - can't believe he played 290 games, Andrew MacWilliam in 7th round - 12 games. Really?

2009: Jesse Blacker in 3rd (1 NHL game), Eric Knodel in 5th (0 games), and interestingly, Barron Smith in 7th round. Isn't that the name Donald Trump used to lay bullpoop on a Forbes reporter?

2010: Petter Granberg in 4th round: 45 NHL games total. That is all.

2011: Stuart Percy in 1st round: 12 NHL games. Tom Nillson in 4th (0 games), Dennis Robertson in 6th (0 NHL games), Max Everson in 7th (0 NHL games). Burkie really was a master at the draft.

2012: Morgan Rielly 5th overall. Matt Finn in 2nd round (0 NHL games). Viktor Loov in 7th round (4 NHL games).

2013: No D selected, although we only had 5 picks. Awesome, Burkie.

2014: Rinat Valiev taken in 3rd round. 12 NHL games. No other D taken.

2015: Dermott in 2nd round. 268 NHL games. Other stiffs taken in 3rd, 4th, 6th - No NHL games.

2016: Stiffs taken in 3rd, 4th and 6th. Keaton Middleton played 3 NHL games. The rest, 0.

2017: Liljegren in 1st round. Finally, we start developing D!!!!!!!!! 3 other D selected - you will never hear from them again.

2018: Sandin! Durzi! Hollowell! Filip Kral!

I'll stop it there, because D need to develop, so I don't want to make fun of guys I have never heard of, and shouldn't be written off yet.

If it wasn't for picks at #5 overall (Rielly, Schenn) and some lucky 7th rounders, we wouldn't have produced any real NHL D at all for about 20 years.

This is why the Leafs have sucked for so long.

OK, this is one of the reasons why the Leafs have sucked for so long.

- Atomic Wedgie


Superb work on this one Wedgie. I agree with this, the Leafs drafting especially defensemen has been dreadful. You can go even further back, drafting has not been a strength.
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