The whole “development” thing is a myth. It’s 90% on the player.
- ClaudeFather

I kind of have to agree here. This is the NHL. It's the best league in the world and these guys are supposed to be men. I really don't get this crap about they screwed this guy up and they screwed that guy up. Although I'd like to see someone else in charge of the Phantoms. Speaking of manning up. It's time for Caaaaater Haaaat to step up and be the world class goalie that he was supposed to be. He needs to get mentally and physically tougher! Thanks! Oh, I still want Chuckles fired yesterday! The man couldn't manage a pack of ducks across a walking path.

I kind of have to agree here. This is the NHL. It's the best league in the world and these guys are supposed to be men. I really don't get this crap about they screwed this guy up and they screwed that guy up. Although I'd like to see someone else in charge of the Phantoms. Speaking of manning up. It's time for Caaaaater Haaaat to step up and be the world class goalie that he was supposed to be. He needs to get mentally and physically tougher! Thanks! Oh, I still want Chuckles fired yesterday! The man couldn't manage a pack of ducks across a walking path.
- Phillywhiteout

I get this point of view. But most 18, 19, 20 year olds I know are idiots when it comes to how the real world works. You add in lots of money and all the outside pressures that comes with that and it gets even worse.

The whole “development” thing is a myth. It’s 90% on the player.
- ClaudeFather

This is 100% true and always will be….

I get this point of view. But most 18, 19, 20 year olds I know are idiots when it comes to how the real world works. You add in lots of money and all the outside pressures that comes with that and it gets even worse.
- MBFlyerfan

This!

People don't realize that when you give a kid a ton of money, even at minimum salaries in the $700's, the kid thinks he's rich. And all the idiocy that comes with being a young kid only gets magnified when they have a ton of money. Their outside interests in partying and franking chicks gets in the way of focusing on their game which IS their job. I think in these cases it's why it's important to have strong leadership in the room to hem these kids in and teach them the right way to play. Chris Pronger comes to mind in that regard.

I kind of have to agree here. This is the NHL. It's the best league in the world and these guys are supposed to be men. I really don't get this crap about they screwed this guy up and they screwed that guy up. Although I'd like to see someone else in charge of the Phantoms. Speaking of manning up. It's time for Caaaaater Haaaat to step up and be the world class goalie that he was supposed to be. He needs to get mentally and physically tougher! Thanks! Oh, I still want Chuckles fired yesterday! The man couldn't manage a pack of ducks across a walking path.
- Phillywhiteout

Teams can mishandle players , have them playing in the wrong places, the wrong rolls and sometimes focus on things that the player will never get, rather then focusing on their strengths. The best teams can hope for is the player takes to their own methods and ways and flourishes….but in the end it’s up to the player. What can be maddening is when a kid goes elsewhere and finds his game….that’s why you see teams not willing to trade young guys because there was reason they drafted or signed him not to long ago.

If the Flyers could find takers for JVR, Hayes, Ellis and Coots all in the world would be good again! Man those are all AWFUL contracts! FIRE CHUCK!! Oh, and FIRE HEXY for the JVR signing! Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

The Couturier contract is no where near an awful contract.

The Couturier contract is no where near an awful contract.

- MJL

It's brutal. He is 30 years old with lots of miles on his body(been in the league since he was 18) and coming off back surgery. He was never the fleetest of skaters and he is STARTING an 8 year contract this year. Yeah, that's gonna age well.

Clarke traded Justin Williams for Danny Markov and then that same summer traded Markov to Nashville.

Fast forward to today throws stones of Hextall trading Schenn after drafting Patrick. Now, anyone who knows me, knows I hated the Schenn deal but let’s get real here. Bob Clarke has no self awareness.
- SuperSchennBros

I’m one of those guys that likes to use “hindsight”…because debating whether a move, draft pick or trade works can take years to judge. In most of Clarke’s moves there’s probably more back stories, for both good and bad.
But in sports results matter. 18 years or so as the GM….16 of which they made the playoffs…8 times they finished 1rst in the division. 3 times they won the conference title only to lose in the cup finals. What the “results” tell me although in hindsight, is that with Clarke at the helm they were a very competitive team and relevant, with a distinct identity. If you want to debate that Clarke was unable to get them over the hump, that’s fair, because that’s the truth. But, If Clarke did indeed lack self awareness he sure did a poor job in hiding it.
I don’t think there’s a poster on here that wouldn’t want those results or at least a team as competitive for the last decade. I know I sure wish we could be.

This!

People don't realize that when you give a kid a ton of money, even at minimum salaries in the $700's, the kid thinks he's rich. And all the idiocy that comes with being a young kid only gets magnified when they have a ton of money. Their outside interests in partying and franking chicks gets in the way of focusing on their game which IS their job. I think in these cases it's why it's important to have strong leadership in the room to hem these kids in and teach them the right way to play. Chris Pronger comes to mind in that regard.
- Letterkenney

This goes to WHY I asked Bill what a developmental coach does. I already knew the answer but wanted other people to see it.

It is about how they live off the ice. How they eat, how they take care of their money, deal with the media, find a place to live, avoid all the pitfalls of being young and on your own, and having more money than you know what to do with. How to schedule your time to make sure you get to practice and not hung over or too tired because you stayed up all night playing Fortnight. How to stay in shape, how to make sure you can survive an 82 game schedule year after year.

It hardly has anything to do with their play ON THE ICE in terms of strategy or skills or any of that. That is up to the on ice coaches.

You can be damn sure the kind of development is very important and while they may be 18 and considered an adult, in no way shape or form are they MEN yet. They are still kids.

It's brutal. He is 30 years old with lots of miles on his body(been in the league since he was 18) and coming off back surgery. He was never the fleetest of skaters and he is STARTING an 8 year contract this year. Yeah, that's gonna age well.

- Phillywhiteout

To be fair his back injury happened after he signed his contract…although it could get ugly.

To be fair his back injury happened after he signed his contract…although it could get ugly.
- landros 2

Yeah, a LOT depends on his health right out of the gate.

His game has never been about speed so not much chance of him losing that. If he stays relatively healthy I think the deal will age ok for the first five years or so. After that hopefully the cap will have gone up enough that it is relatively cheap in %. As long as his brain stays intact he will be an effective player.

However, if his back is an issue from here on out, its a bad deal.

It's brutal. He is 30 years old with lots of miles on his body(been in the league since he was 18) and coming off back surgery. He was never the fleetest of skaters and he is STARTING an 8 year contract this year. Yeah, that's gonna age well.

- Phillywhiteout

It's asinine to say a contract with a cap hit of 7.75M for a player of Couturier's caliber is brutal.

It's asinine to say a contract with a cap hit of 7.75M for a player of Couturier's caliber is brutal.
- MJL

Wrong! It's an 8 year contract. It's a brutal contract if they only get 4 good years out of him(or less). Of course, no one knows how it will play out, but I don't like it. It's not a bad AAV cause they gave him all that term, but I think the term is ridiculous in this particular case.

While Coot's contract isn't brutal IMO its untradeable.

Wrong! It's an 8 year contract. It's a brutal contract if they only get 4 good years out of him. Of course, no one knows how it will play out, but I don't like it.
- Phillywhiteout

You sound like a child. If they only get 4 good years. What about IF they get 7 really good years or even 6 and then he still remains a solid 2 way player for the last 2?
You can not like it all you want but it's asinine to say it's a brutal contract for a player of Couturier's caliber.

You sound like a child. If they only get 4 good years. What about IF they get 7 really good years or even 6 and then he still remains a solid 2 way player for the last 2?
You can not like it all you want but it's asinine to say it's a brutal contract for a player of Couturier's caliber.
- MJL

Oh, now I'm a child cause I disagree with you. What if you get 2 good years out of him? You're one strange dude. I'm not debating with you cause it's a waste of time. I don't like the contract and I totally disagree with your take and therefore, I'm a child. Thanks! I bow at your presence.

Remember, the salary cap was ~$64M when Vinny signed. Vinny was ~7% of the salary cap then. Hayes was ~8% of the cap in 19-20. And Vinny was already 33-yo, with marked signs of decline in his skating and ES play going back a couple of seasons. His underlying numbers were awful. A smarter team wouldn't have touched him with a 10-foot pole.

Hayes was a terrible deal too, but at least in his case they were getting some prime years in the deal, as opposed to a total retirement contract.
- Tomahawk

correct. vinny was really only dangerous just camping on the PP at this time.

Oh, now I'm a child cause I disagree with you. What if you get 2 good years out of him? You're one strange dude. I'm not debating with you cause it's a waste of time. I don't like the contract and I totally disagree with your take and therefore, I'm a child. You're a clown show. Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

No, you sound like a child for posting "Wrong". Not because you disagree.

My opinion is based on the quality of player that Couturier is. Your opinion is based on ifs.

No, you sound like a child for posting "Wrong". Not because you disagree.

My opinion is based on the quality of player that Couturier is. Your opinion is based on ifs.
- MJL

I said wrong cause you seem to be basing everything on the AAV. It's an 8 year contract that could age very badly. I don't like the chances based on the fact that Coots always seems to be playing with nagging injuries and he's only going to get slower in a league that is getting quicker every year. I know his game is more based on hockey sense and not speed, but he really can't afford to get slower. Again, time will tell, but I'd love to get rid of that contract if it was possible. Of course, no one would take it with Coots coming off the back surgery.

This goes to WHY I asked Bill what a developmental coach does. I already knew the answer but wanted other people to see it.

It is about how they live off the ice. How they eat, how they take care of their money, deal with the media, find a place to live, avoid all the pitfalls of being young and on your own, and having more money than you know what to do with. How to schedule your time to make sure you get to practice and not hung over or too tired because you stayed up all night playing Fortnight. How to stay in shape, how to make sure you can survive an 82 game schedule year after year.

It hardly has anything to do with their play ON THE ICE in terms of strategy or skills or any of that. That is up to the on ice coaches.

You can be damn sure the kind of development is very important and while they may be 18 and considered an adult, in no way shape or form are they MEN yet. They are still kids.
- MBFlyerfan[/quo

it takes both to make it in the NHL, more on the player but both for sure. This is not an excuse it is just true, when you have significant injuries it throws everything out of whack

I get this point of view. But most 18, 19, 20 year olds I know are idiots when it comes to how the real world works. You add in lots of money and all the outside pressures that comes with that and it gets even worse.
- MBFlyerfan

not at the level they are at though. some already represented their country, most have been traveling and playing most of their lives. Money i can see as being an issue of not knowing how to deal with it. but they are people. pressure and stress are pressure and stress. just like the kids going to college or military.

I said wrong cause you seem to be basing everything on the AAV. It's an 8 year contract that could age very badly. I don't like the chances based on the fact that Coots always seems to be playing with nagging injuries and he's only going to get slower in a league that is getting quicker every year. I know his game is more based on hockey sense and not speed, but he really can't afford to get slower. Again, time will tell, but I'd love to get rid of that contract if it was possible. Of course, no one would take it with Coots coming off the back surgery.
- Phillywhiteout

Couturier's game has never been based on speed. It's based on his elite hockey sense. There has never been a time where Couturier has had an issue keeping up with the speed of the game. That combined with his skill level and his physical strength is why I'm not concerned with the term of the contract. Yes, the back injury is a concern but all reports are positive. Calling it a brutal contract is again, asinine.

not at the level they are at though. some already represented their country, most have been traveling and playing most of their lives. Money i can see as being an issue of not knowing how to deal with it. but they are people. pressure and stress are pressure and stress. just like the kids going to college or military.
- Peter Richards

Im sorry but kids going to college or the military don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars in their bank account, and when they were playing in those tournaments they are living in much more structured environments because they are KIDS. They are traveling with chaperones or family.

Its not even close to being a professional athlete.

I blame Russ Farwell for the Lindros trade!!

Yeah, a LOT depends on his health right out of the gate.

His game has never been about speed so not much chance of him losing that. If he stays relatively healthy I think the deal will age ok for the first five years or so. After that hopefully the cap will have gone up enough that it is relatively cheap in %. As long as his brain stays intact he will be an effective player.

However, if his back is an issue from here on out, its a bad deal.
- MBFlyerfan

I say if Coots has a pretty good season going this year and year 2
where he has proved he is back, at the Trade deadline,
move him for a haul haul.