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Forums :: Blog World :: Kevin Francis: New arena news for the Sens/Potential Sens trade and UFA targets
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AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Jun 23 @ 3:27 PM ET
Just curious what would a trade for DeBrincat from the Blackhawks to Ottawa look like? What is Ottawa willing to give up?
- Scott1977


Two parts to that question

What is Ottawa willing to give up?

I honestly don't think a deal can be made. Ottawa will not trade Batherson, Norris, Tkachuk, Chabot, Sanderson so that leaves the 7th Overall Pick being in play. I don't think the Sens would trade Pinto or Formenton either but Jacob Bernard-Docker, Ridly Greig, Roby Jarventie, and goal scorer Egor Sokolov would have to be on the table.

What a fair trade would look like to ME:

To Chicago

1 of - Ridly Greig, Roby Jarventie, Egor Sokolov
1 of - Erik Brannstrom, Lassi Thomson, Jacob Bernard Docker
7th Overall Pick - draft a forward
Alex Formenton or 2023 2nd round pick


To Ottawa

Alex DeBrincat
possible pick in 2023
Mithos
Joined: 04.14.2021

Jun 23 @ 3:32 PM ET
Two parts to that question

What is Ottawa willing to give up?

I honestly don't think a deal can be made. Ottawa will not trade Batherson, Norris, Tkachuk, Chabot, Sanderson so that leaves the 7th Overall Pick being in play. I don't think the Sens would trade Pinto or Formenton either but Jacob Bernard-Docker, Ridly Greig, Roby Jarventie, and goal scorer Egor Sokolov would have to be on the table.

What a fair trade would look like to ME:

To Chicago

1 of - Ridly Greig, Roby Jarventie, Egor Sokolov
1 of - Erik Brannstrom, Lassi Thomson, Jacob Bernard Docker
7th Overall Pick - draft a forward
Alex Formenton or 2023 2nd round pick


To Ottawa

Alex DeBrincat
possible pick in 2023

- AlfieisKing


that is WAY too much that is 4 potential top 6/top 4 players for ONE top line player that has 5-6 years left do to his size wanting 9M+ for 7-8 years
CooCooKaChoo
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 01.15.2008

Jun 23 @ 3:35 PM ET
Not when your team is in cap hell......that is the thing, he needs to bide his time and strike....Vegas will need to be cap compliant before camp, like Vegas wants that hanging over their head all summer especially after the Dadonov mess.
- Kevin Francis


The Dadonov mess is exactly why Ottawa won't be doing a deal with Vegas. Although I'd love to get Theodore.

Kevin Francis
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 07.21.2021

Jun 23 @ 3:44 PM ET
Two parts to that question

What is Ottawa willing to give up?

I honestly don't think a deal can be made. Ottawa will not trade Batherson, Norris, Tkachuk, Chabot, Sanderson so that leaves the 7th Overall Pick being in play. I don't think the Sens would trade Pinto or Formenton either but Jacob Bernard-Docker, Ridly Greig, Roby Jarventie, and goal scorer Egor Sokolov would have to be on the table.

What a fair trade would look like to ME:

To Chicago

1 of - Ridly Greig, Roby Jarventie, Egor Sokolov
1 of - Erik Brannstrom, Lassi Thomson, Jacob Bernard Docker
7th Overall Pick - draft a forward
Alex Formenton or 2023 2nd round pick


To Ottawa

Alex DeBrincat
possible pick in 2023

- AlfieisKing


You might be surprised when it comes to Formenton, between DJ not liking him and the WJ stuff that is going on....don't be surprised if AF is the last RFA to be signed by Ottawa. But I would do number 7 pick, Sokolov and Brannstrom. Thomson no way!
Kevin Francis
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 07.21.2021

Jun 23 @ 3:46 PM ET
The Dadonov mess is exactly why Ottawa won't be doing a deal with Vegas. Although I'd love to get Theodore.
- CooCooKaChoo


You mean Vegas wont want to do business with us?! Trust me, PD was raked over the coals by many GM's for his part in the mess, not saying Vegas GM didn't have a part...but many NHL personnel along with myself were stunned that the league let PD off the hook.
Kevin Francis
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 07.21.2021

Jun 23 @ 3:50 PM ET
The Dadonov mess is exactly why Ottawa won't be doing a deal with Vegas. Although I'd love to get Theodore.
- CooCooKaChoo


Plus Vegas is already 2.67 million over the cap and that is without the Reilly Smith signing of 5 million AAV. It already includes Weber on LTIR too! So at 7.67 M over the cap, and 4 RFAs to sign, they are in cap hell!
spazzbot
Location: Maple Zombie
Joined: 02.14.2013

Jun 23 @ 4:05 PM ET
A possible outcome. This new handshake deal for stadium rights downtown .It may hasten the exchange of ownerships as it likely increases the valueof the team by at least 100 mil. At the least a 51% new owner and 49% same. Time will tell. The money part of this deal is non disclosed.so far.

I am still in for a big trade or 2. This team needs to take giant step forward next season ,not just a little one.

Kevin Francis
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 07.21.2021

Jun 23 @ 4:33 PM ET
A possible outcome. This new handshake deal for stadium rights downtown .It may hasten the exchange of ownerships as it likely increases the valueof the team by at least 100 mil. At the least a 51% new owner and 49% same. Time will tell. The money part of this deal is non disclosed.so far.

I am still in for a big trade or 2. This team needs to take giant step forward next season ,not just a little one.

- spazzbot


We can only hope that a year from now the daughters sell the team, otherwise, this team will never reach its potential because it wont be a cap team as long as current ownership/board are in place!

Agreed, this team needs to take a massive step forward!!
Mithos
Joined: 04.14.2021

Jun 23 @ 5:26 PM ET
We can only hope that a year from now the daughters sell the team, otherwise, this team will never reach its potential because it wont be a cap team as long as current ownership/board are in place!

Agreed, this team needs to take a massive step forward!!

- Kevin Francis


the next 12-18 months will determine the future of the franchise, if it has a future at all
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 23 @ 7:17 PM ET
the next 12-18 months will determine the future of the franchise, if it has a future at all
- Mithos


Overall I am surprised and really impressed by how the Sens have structured the Lebreton development project. Folks seem to miss the the inclusion of a New Jersey based "boutique" financial services agency as a development partner. They have been given the responsibility of arranging private and public equity investment. In the press conference, after the NCC meeting, Sens officials suggested some decisions will be made as soon as the equity partners come on board.

Also really impressed with the Sens going with Live Nation as a development partner. Live Nation is headed up by Michael Rapino originally from Thunder Bay. He started his career as a beer salesman for Labatts in Toronto. Live Nation is a huge entertainment booking agency, they also own Ticketmaster. More recently they have begun to buy into venues and other entertainment events. In 2018, Billboard Magazine named Rapino as the #1 power player of influential people in the music industry. This is a really strong strategic alliance for the Sens as they go forward in their new venture.

I found this statement attributed to Rapino interesting in terms of Live Nation wanting to get involved in building venues.

“We saw an opportunity to bring Toronto a great new venue, and we have so much gratitude and respect for Drake teaming up with us to bring it to life in the best way possible,” said Michael Rapino, president and CEO, Live Nation Entertainment.
Kevin Francis
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 07.21.2021

Jun 23 @ 7:20 PM ET
the next 12-18 months will determine the future of the franchise, if it has a future at all
- Mithos


100% agree!
Mithos
Joined: 04.14.2021

Jun 23 @ 7:58 PM ET
Overall I am surprised and really impressed by how the Sens have structured the Lebreton development project. Folks seem to miss the the inclusion of a New Jersey based "boutique" financial services agency as a development partner. They have been given the responsibility of arranging private and public equity investment. In the press conference, after the NCC meeting, Sens officials suggested some decisions will be made as soon as the equity partners come on board.

Also really impressed with the Sens going with Live Nation as a development partner. Live Nation is headed up by Michael Rapino originally from Thunder Bay. He started his career as a beer salesman for Labatts in Toronto. Live Nation is a huge entertainment booking agency, they also own Ticketmaster. More recently they have begun to buy into venues and other entertainment events. In 2018, Billboard Magazine named Rapino as the #1 power player of influential people in the music industry. This is a really strong strategic alliance for the Sens as they go forward in their new venture.

I found this statement attributed to Rapino interesting in terms of Live Nation wanting to get involved in building venues.

“We saw an opportunity to bring Toronto a great new venue, and we have so much gratitude and respect for Drake teaming up with us to bring it to life in the best way possible,” said Michael Rapino, president and CEO, Live Nation Entertainment.

- spatso


a downtown arena with 1-2 Restaurants open all day and night would make a poop ton of money also OTT is smack dad in the middle of MTL and Tor so any event would have people coming from both those regions as well, OTT also being a government town is virtually recession proof, there is a crap ton of money to be made for these companies so they wanted in.
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

Jun 23 @ 8:38 PM ET
Two parts to that question

What is Ottawa willing to give up?

I honestly don't think a deal can be made. Ottawa will not trade Batherson, Norris, Tkachuk, Chabot, Sanderson so that leaves the 7th Overall Pick being in play. I don't think the Sens would trade Pinto or Formenton either but Jacob Bernard-Docker, Ridly Greig, Roby Jarventie, and goal scorer Egor Sokolov would have to be on the table.

What a fair trade would look like to ME:

To Chicago

1 of - Ridly Greig, Roby Jarventie, Egor Sokolov
1 of - Erik Brannstrom, Lassi Thomson, Jacob Bernard Docker
7th Overall Pick - draft a forward
Alex Formenton or 2023 2nd round pick


To Ottawa

Alex DeBrincat
possible pick in 2023

- AlfieisKing

Get real! In order for that to be fair Ottawa would have to throw in Pinto, Sanderson and Stutzle at least. Maybe next year's first as well.
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

Jun 23 @ 9:48 PM ET
We can only hope that a year from now the daughters sell the team, otherwise, this team will never reach its potential because it wont be a cap team as long as current ownership/board are in place!

Agreed, this team needs to take a massive step forward!!

- Kevin Francis

All I know is that there is a board of directors and a professional management group running the team. Does anyone know who these guys are?
PuckPix
Joined: 01.12.2021

Jun 23 @ 9:59 PM ET
Get real! In order for that to be fair Ottawa would have to throw in Pinto, Sanderson and Stutzle at least. Maybe next year's first as well.
- Whatisavailable


I gotta chime in as an outsider on this one, whoever presented the Hawks proposal, I'm sorry, that's wishful thinking. Too many times fans, value their players and prospects far more than other teams GM's do.
PuckPix
Joined: 01.12.2021

Jun 23 @ 10:01 PM ET
All I know is that there is a board of directors and a professional management group running the team. Does anyone know who these guys are?
- Whatisavailable


As I stated in the last blog yesterday, I am so glad your city got good news today. I only hope it translates into the real deal because if I'm not mistaken, everyone thought they had this arena deal a few years ago. Let's hope for the sake of the Ottawa fanbase that this comes to fruition.

When you mention this board, looking from the outside, it all seems so weird, I just can't imagine this happening with the NBA or the NFL.
PuckPix
Joined: 01.12.2021

Jun 23 @ 10:02 PM ET
You mean Vegas wont want to do business with us?! Trust me, PD was raked over the coals by many GM's for his part in the mess, not saying Vegas GM didn't have a part...but many NHL personnel along with myself were stunned that the league let PD off the hook.
- Kevin Francis


Nice piece btw Kevin. Keep'er rolling.
Gord_Wilson_2.0
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 10.11.2011

Jun 23 @ 10:16 PM ET
Nice to hear positive news towards a new arena. We have sort of seen this before, so it's hard to get too excited until a shovel hits the ground. However, a downtown area, developed properly, would be a huge boost to the team and city. I've advocated for this for years on this site. Lots of quality names in the deal so you think it has to workout for the best.

In regards to the pick, I am nervous about what Dorion will do. I think moving the 7th overall pick for simply a top 6ish forward and not a true impact player would be a bit of a mistake. Understandably, the 7th overall pick might not warrant anything more than a top 6 forward, but smart GMs acquire top 6ish forwards without moving top-10 picks. It will be an interesting time leading top to the draft.

Dorion has a long to do list and has very little support to do it. Baffling that McGuire and McTavish left right before the draft one way or another.

No matter how the offseason goes, October and November will be a time to see if DJ and Dorion start to update their LinkedIn profiles.

With the arena announcement, this is a positive day to be a Sens fan. Let's enjoy it.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 24 @ 6:05 AM ET
Nice to hear positive news towards a new arena. We have sort of seen this before, so it's hard to get too excited until a shovel hits the ground. However, a downtown area, developed properly, would be a huge boost to the team and city. I've advocated for this for years on this site. Lots of quality names in the deal so you think it has to workout for the best.

In regards to the pick, I am nervous about what Dorion will do. I think moving the 7th overall pick for simply a top 6ish forward and not a true impact player would be a bit of a mistake. Understandably, the 7th overall pick might not warrant anything more than a top 6 forward, but smart GMs acquire top 6ish forwards without moving top-10 picks. It will be an interesting time leading top to the draft.

Dorion has a long to do list and has very little support to do it. Baffling that McGuire and McTavish left right before the draft one way or another.

No matter how the offseason goes, October and November will be a time to see if DJ and Dorion start to update their LinkedIn profiles.

With the arena announcement, this is a positive day to be a Sens fan. Let's enjoy it.

- Gord_Wilson_2.0


Good post!

I think the "support" issue for Dorion now becomes a two edged sword. On one side hockey ops is pretty bare. On the other side, Dorion reports to a management board comprised of bean counters. The bean counters are concerned with equity investment, Lebreton and the transition plan that will get them to this new promised land. In the short term, there will be nobody to question or challenge Dorion's judgement on hockey decisions. Clearly all the hockey power is now fully concentrated with Pierre Dorion.

I have always thought that new ownership was coming, likely in the form of a revised capital structure. If anything, yesterday was an implicit acknowledgement that equity investment is needed in order to move forward. Don't let anybody (Garrioch) tell you that the investment is only about building Lebreton. Have you sold your house? No, but I have listed it with a real estate agent.

I figured that once a new ownership structure was put in place, the new guys would likely want to name their own GM. I figured Dorion had one full season before we would see any significant front office changes.

Maybe, we need to think two seasons.

Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

Jun 24 @ 7:22 AM ET
Good post!

I think the "support" issue for Dorion now becomes a two edged sword. On one side hockey ops is pretty bare. On the other side, Dorion reports to a management board comprised of bean counters. The bean counters are concerned with equity investment, Lebreton and the transition plan that will get them to this new promised land. In the short term, there will be nobody to question or challenge Dorion's judgement on hockey decisions. Clearly all the hockey power is now fully concentrated with Pierre Dorion.

I have always thought that new ownership was coming, likely in the form of a revised capital structure. If anything, yesterday was an implicit acknowledgement that equity investment is needed in order to move forward. Don't let anybody (Garrioch) tell you that the investment is only about building Lebreton. Have you sold your house? No, but I have listed it with a real estate agent.

I figured that once a new ownership structure was put in place, the new guys would likely want to name their own GM. I figured Dorion had one full season before we would see any significant front office changes.

Maybe, we need to think two seasons.

- spatso

I find it difficult to believe that any individual or group of individuals would set up a system where any GM let alone a Pierre Dorion would have complete, autonomous control over decisions fundamentally affecting the performance and hence value of a sports franchise worth over half a billion dollars. That just doesn't make any sense at all and I can't imagine such a scenario and that degree of ineptness. That just can't be true.

Hey everybody we're going to let the blind guy drive the bus through the mountains while we all sleep. All aboard that's going aboard!

That's just too stupid! Why do I get the feeling Ottawa is about to lose their hockey team? Maybe Albuquerque or San Antonio or Houston or Charlotte? My guess would be Houston.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 24 @ 8:23 AM ET
I find it difficult to believe that any individual or group of individuals would set up a system where any GM let alone a Pierre Dorion would have complete, autonomous control over decisions fundamentally affecting the performance and hence value of a sports franchise worth over half a billion dollars. That just doesn't make any sense at all and I can't imagine such a scenario and that degree of ineptness. That just can't be true.

Hey everybody we're going to let the blind guy drive the bus through the mountains while we all sleep. All aboard that's going aboard!

That's just too stupid! Why do I get the feeling Ottawa is about to lose their hockey team? Maybe Albuquerque or San Antonio or Houston or Charlotte? My guess would be Houston.

- Whatisavailable


Sheldon Plener
Larry Zeifman
John Miszuk

These are the bean counters that make up the trustee board of directors. Which one do you think will take on the job of firing Dorion and recruiting a new GM? The business side is making their best pitch to attract investment equity. They want stability on the hockey side. They will not want any changes in the front office at this time.

Any new ownership group is going to want to appoint their own team. It would be corporate negligence to change the front office while trying to bring in new partners. Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with hockey.


spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 24 @ 8:44 AM ET
If you look at the bios of the Board of Directors you will see what clearly is their priority and it has little to do with what is happening on the ice or in the hockey front office.

Sheldon Plener is a partner in the Business Law Group at Cassels. Sheldon has extensive experience in mergers and acquisitions, divestitures, reorganizations, joint ventures and other commercial transactions in Canada and elsewhere.

Larry Zeifman specializes in auditing, mergers & acquisitions, and consulting, Larry is responsible for servicing many of Zeifmans’ larger corporate clients, especially clients in the financial services and health care sectors. Larry’s clients rely on his advice on a range of domestic financial matters, as well as issues relating to the global corporate environment. He leads the Zeifmans Cannabis and Psychedelics Team, and serves as an Alternate Governor of the National Hockey League.

John Miszuk when named to the Board is described as a long time hockey executive and advisor to Eugene Melnyk.
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

Jun 24 @ 9:21 AM ET
Sheldon Plener
Larry Zeifman
John Miszuk

These are the bean counters that make up the trustee board of directors. Which one do you think will take on the job of firing Dorion and recruiting a new GM? The business side is making their best pitch to attract investment equity. They want stability on the hockey side. They will not want any changes in the front office at this time.

Any new ownership group is going to want to appoint their own team. It would be corporate negligence to change the front office while trying to bring in new partners. Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with hockey.

- spatso

I don't think any of them would but the idea of a mug like Dorion getting to make unfettered decisions concerning personnel and contracts and trades for up to 2 years has catastrophe written all over it.
Octavarium
New York Islanders
Joined: 01.03.2007

Jun 24 @ 9:48 AM ET
Filip Forsberg is getting a little more smoke....to that fire. And he was in town.
Lets get Boro back too.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 24 @ 10:02 AM ET
I don't think any of them would but the idea of a mug like Dorion getting to make unfettered decisions concerning personnel and contracts and trades for up to 2 years has catastrophe written all over it.
- Whatisavailable


The next critical date is fall 2023 for signing off on a LeBreton lease agreement with the NCC. My guess is the Sens will need to have their equity investors finalized and fully in place at least 6 months before that date (the sooner the better). They will want to be a part of the LeBreton decision making. I suspect the guidelines for Dorion will be along the lines of don't mess it up. Good chance there will be a bias of don't peak too soon. Wait until we get to the new building with its enhanced revenue streams.

Right now everybody who is struggling with the slow pace needs to watch "Winning - the story of the LA Lakers." It is primarily about Dr Gerry Bus, the guy who bought the Lakers despite not having the cash. It is wildly funny. It puts to bed the idea that you have to know what you are doing in order to successful. In the case of the Lakers, an owner who had no idea of what he should be doing actually achieves great success despite himself.

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