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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Winless Streak at Six after 5-2 Loss in NJ
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ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

Nov 29 @ 2:18 PM ET
I think if you fire AV you have to fire all three.
- MBFlyerfan

And hire an outside interm coach just to get another in the off season? Not sure you see that often, think as of late hitch did that in Edmonton?
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

Nov 29 @ 2:19 PM ET
I think if you fire AV you have to fire all three.
- MBFlyerfan

I just done see that happening
MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Nov 29 @ 2:19 PM ET
Well, the fact that you could make a pass across red line and the increase in size of neutral ice made fast transition play a lot easier. The lessening of ice behind net gave less space to muck around there, and the Brodeur role (I am too lazy to look up if that was part of the same set of rules) led to less goalie adventurism behind net and less melees resulting from that. Most importantly, the stricter calling of obstruction and more vigilant enforcement of hits to upper body, combined with the things I wrote about earlier tended to favor the more 'Euro style" forward, which in turn led to the bigger, slower, net crashing forward's fairly rapid demise.

Of all the sports I follow reasoanably seriously: NFL, NHL and soccer, I have not seen a more sharp change in nature of play in my lifetime than the one I allude to above. Changes are usually much more gradual.

There are others far more qualified to talk about this stuff than me, and I am sre you will find lots of Youtube Vids about what happened. Or perhaps you know already, and are trying to get me into trouble.

So, there you have it.

- PT21



It is almost startling to watch a Lindros era game and see all the hooking and holding compared to today. Some of those guys look like they are water skiing behind Lindros the amount of hooking they allowed on him.
MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Nov 29 @ 2:20 PM ET
I just done see that happening
- ClaudeFather


Me neither.
hello it's me 2050
Location: AR
Joined: 05.14.2021

Nov 29 @ 2:20 PM ET
Even though firing AV would probably just leave us with Yeo for the remainder of the season why wouldn’t you do this immediately? It would force Yeo to change a few things and if you’re paying attention nothing is working. There is no reason for AV to be the bench boss for another day.
- ClaudeFather


$$ is all I have why AV is still around.

What I never understood is instead of firing a coach, just reassign him to a scout or whatever. I get it may cause hard feelings, oh well it is a business. He will get paid either way. Make him earn that money or agree to lower buyout....
hello it's me 2050
Location: AR
Joined: 05.14.2021

Nov 29 @ 2:20 PM ET
And hire an outside interm coach just to get another in the off season? Not sure you see that often, think as of late hitch did that in Edmonton?
- ClaudeFather

Holmgren takes over both role on an interim basis......
bradster
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.18.2009

Nov 29 @ 2:20 PM ET
You don't change the coaching staff mid season unless you think you have the horses and all that is needed is a different voice. In your opinion, do the Flyers have the players to be a legitimate contender right now? I hope your answer is no! So its fruitless to change coaches now. You wait until the off season when you can see who is available and you have more time to conduct interviews and such. IMO, it doesn't matter who is coaching this team or system they install, these players won't do it consistently enough to legitimately contend.
- jd250


you can see what players are buying into the new system to prepare for next year.
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

Nov 29 @ 2:21 PM ET
Holmgren takes over both role on an interim basis......
- hello it's me 2050

I’ll take it
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

Nov 29 @ 2:22 PM ET
Giroux being traded and winning a cup would be the perfect bow on this season and this franchise.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Nov 29 @ 2:22 PM ET
How can you possibly look at this picture and state there was minimal pressure on Risto at the time?? The New Jersey forward is right next to him!! Look, I'm not saying it was an accurate pass, but that is still a very easy pass to handle for a player that is supposedly as good as Provey.
- jd250


There was minimal pressure on him. The forward made a token attempt to steal the puck coming from behind Risto. Not much of a "forecheck".

Puck was too hard and should have angled backwards.

I honestly don't know how some of you guys think he could have played the pass 'easily'. He was clearly not expecting it, because the situation had little pressure. It was way in front.

Perhaps you can say an elite guy needs to make a better play. But the situation itself was caused by Risto. I am not piling on the guy. I am more on your camp than of the others re: Risto's overall play this season. But I have no idea how he doesn't bear most of that blame imo.
bradster
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.18.2009

Nov 29 @ 2:22 PM ET
This is the NHL man, get that pass, on Provy 100%
- ClaudeFather


I didn't see the game(thank god), but by that pic, that's on provy. Looks like a routine play. Better to pass it a little ahead of him with him skating into it than behind him.

Why is one play getting so much discussion here. I'm sure there's plenty of blame to go around on that game. Oh right its because RR made the pass
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Nov 29 @ 2:23 PM ET
It is almost startling to watch a Lindros era game and see all the hooking and holding compared to today. Some of those guys look like they are water skiing behind Lindros the amount of hooking they allowed on him.
- MBFlyerfan



I remembe the goal he scored carrying Messier on his back. Water skiing is exactly what it looked like.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Nov 29 @ 2:24 PM ET
you can see what players are buying into the new system to prepare for next year.
- bradster

But here is the thing, when a new coach comes aboard, all players buy into the system, they really have no choice! But can those players consistently play that system well is the question. Getting a new coach and system typically doesn't work in-season unless you have a team that was ready and just needed that extra. That is not the case with the Flyers now. I am as frustrated as anyone, but honestly, I can't blame AV for the mistakes that are happening right now, and just changing coaches is not going to fix this.
bradster
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.18.2009

Nov 29 @ 2:25 PM ET
But here is the thing, when a new coach comes aboard, all players buy into the system, they really have no choice! But can those players consistently play that system well is the question. Getting a new coach and system typically doesn't work in-season unless you have a team that was ready and just needed that extra. That is not the case with the Flyers now. I am as frustrated as anyone, but honestly, I can't blame AV for the mistakes that are happening right now, and just changing coaches is not going to fix this.
- jd250


can you blame AV for the dump and chase?
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

Nov 29 @ 2:26 PM ET
I didn't see the game(thank god), but by that pic, that's on provy. Looks like a routine play. Better to pass it a little ahead of him with him skating into it than behind him.

Why is one play getting so much discussion here. I'm sure there's plenty of blame to go around on that game. Oh right its because RR made the pass

- bradster

Turned it off early, probably going to be a common theme moving forward. Yea watched that highlight tho, Provy needs to have that. He’s had his head up his rear for a handful of games now
MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Nov 29 @ 2:27 PM ET
can you blame AV for the dump and chase?
- bradster




Yes, according to most reports that is the way he wants them to play. Avoid mistakes at the neutral zone unless you absolutely can carry it in.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Nov 29 @ 2:27 PM ET
There was minimal pressure on him. The forward made a token attempt to steal the puck coming from behind Risto. Not much of a "forecheck".

Puck was too hard and should have angled backwards.

I honestly don't know how some of you guys think he could have played the pass 'easily'. He was clearly not expecting it, because the situation had little pressure. It was way in front.

Perhaps you can say an elite guy needs to make a better play. But the situation itself was caused by Risto. I am not piling on the guy. I am more on your camp than of the others re: Risto's overall play this season. But I have no idea how he doesn't bear most of that blame imo.

- PT21

Risto did not make an accurate pass to Provey because he saw the Devil forward coming from behind him and he rushed the pass. Risto is responsible for this. However, it was not a hard pass and Provey as you can see in your own picture has plenty of time before the Devil forward will get to him. Therefore he can just take the puck off the boards, skate backwards with the puck to behind his own net so the Flyers could complete a change and then start it up ice. Instead Provey panicked and lunged for the puck, he missed it and what's worse is he let the Devil's forward skate right buy him with the puck in stride. That is 100% on Provey. Even an average defenseman could have played this better!
bradster
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.18.2009

Nov 29 @ 2:29 PM ET
Yes, according to most reposrts that is the way he wants them to play. Avoid mistakes at the neutral zone unless you absolutely can carry it in.
- MBFlyerfan


Exactly, and our players are not good at it, change the system to match the skill set
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 29 @ 2:30 PM ET
This from the man who preached patience, actually begging Fletcher to not overreact and change anything this off season. Now after 20 games, no one is safe in management?? Thank goodness for BMeltzer providing a proper perspective of things right now. The last thing I want Fletcher to do is panic at this point. We need to see how this plays out into January, especially when hopefully the Flyers can get healthy again and then see where they are. As I posted earlier today, if come late January its clear this team is not making the playoffs, then Fletcher needs to make significant changes as I outlined.
- jd250


Not sure who you're addressing this post to but you are again inaccurate in stating that I didn't want anything changed. Bills blog is not saying what you think it's saying, obviously. Plays out into January? LOL. If this thing doesn't straighten out in a week or so, it's all over.
eabrenner
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Kent, OH
Joined: 10.05.2020

Nov 29 @ 2:31 PM ET
This season is over. No way they're coming back from this. Another year, another group of new players and the same issues. This team is rotten at it's core and at this point outside of a sale of the team I don't see them becoming even a fringe playoff team. Every year they find a way to implode on themselves.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Nov 29 @ 2:32 PM ET
I didn't see the game(thank god), but by that pic, that's on provy. Looks like a routine play. Better to pass it a little ahead of him with him skating into it than behind him.

Why is one play getting so much discussion here. I'm sure there's plenty of blame to go around on that game. Oh right its because RR made the pass

- bradster


The pic is a millisecond after pass has been made. Provy is already having to lunge.

Never mind the position of the puck. What about the speed of the pass?


MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 29 @ 2:32 PM ET
That was Provey's mistake in the first place!! He didn't have to lunge, he could have easily took the puck off the boards and flipped it out, all the while keeping the play, and on coming Devil's forechecker in front of him. That is what a top-pairing defenseman would have done, but not on that play by Provey. To be so short-sighted and blame Risto for everything is just nonsense! Many people are telling you this, but you just don't want to listen!

yet, when I blasted Risto for a horrible play on the Devil's 2nd goal, you were more interested in blaming Couts and TK for not getting back. Amazing!

- jd250


So you know for a fact that the puck would've come off perfectly off the boards and to Provorov. It wouldn't have jumped over his stick or gone airborne or anything like that. Just more absurdity from you. Many people are telling me? Not the informed.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Nov 29 @ 2:34 PM ET
can you blame AV for the dump and chase?
- bradster

Honestly no. Dump and chase works fine if your forwards can beat the defenders to the pucks but right now the Flyers forwards are too slow to do that. When the same forwards try to carry it in, they lack cohesion as unit and thus turn the puck over rather easily. Its on the players IMO, not the coaches. Depending on the opponent, some games you might carry the puck in more because maybe the defenseman tend to back off their blue line or maybe the gaps between the Dmen and forwards on that team are poor and you can take advantage of it. Other games you might dump and chase more because the opponent's Dmen stand you up at the blue line and make it harder for you to carry the puck in, or maybe their Dmen are not that strong on the puck and so you feel you can win those puck battles below the goal line and gain possession.

So there is no such system as dump and chase, or carry it over the line. It all depends on how your opponent defends and thus how best you can take advantage of their weaknesses. For example, against the Flyers teams still believe the best way to attack them is dump and chase because without Ellis teams feel the Flyers' D are slow and not good at puck battles below the line. This was the Bruin's strategy against them last Saturday in fact, and I know because their analyst were talking about it on their broadcast.
bradster
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.18.2009

Nov 29 @ 2:34 PM ET
G for Peyton Krebs and a pick.
Vegas could use a center right now.
Get it done Chuck
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Nov 29 @ 2:35 PM ET
Risto did not make an accurate pass to Provey because he saw the Devil forward coming from behind him and he rushed the pass. Risto is responsible for this. However, it was not a hard pass and Provey as you can see in your own picture has plenty of time before the Devil forward will get to him. Therefore he can just take the puck off the boards, skate backwards with the puck to behind his own net so the Flyers could complete a change and then start it up ice. Instead Provey panicked and lunged for the puck, he missed it and what's worse is he let the Devil's forward skate right buy him with the puck in stride. That is 100% on Provey. Even an average defenseman could have played this better!
- jd250



If Provy doesn't lunge, imo that puck rebounds off the boards and sits their nice and juicy in the middle of the ice. He clearly wasn't expecting it, so perhaps his initial reaction was a tad slow.

Enough of this already for me. Funny how all of you are seeing things that tilt towards your dog in this perpetual Risto fight.

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