Wanna blog? Start your own hockey blog with My HockeyBuzz. Register for free today!
 
Forums :: Blog World :: Karine Hains: Thanksgiving Time
Author Message
Pat1993
Montreal Canadiens
Location: disguise delimit, QC
Joined: 08.28.2009

Nov 25 @ 4:52 PM ET
Well, Seattle didn't take him and they still have goalie concerns.

IIRC MB went out of his way to say how his hip and knee may require major surgeries

- mr.peanut



meh, the Kraken GM made it pretty clear that cap space was very precious to him, and this also had to be a major concern for him. not sure where you're going with this.
mr.peanut
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Born Wearing Gold 2023-24: 6-0-0, QC
Joined: 12.18.2011

Nov 25 @ 4:53 PM ET
meh, the Kraken GM made it pretty clear that cap space was very precious to him, and this also had to be a major concern for him. not sure where you're going with this.
- Pat1993

My point is that Price would not have been a bad pick AND mb did everything he could to ensure price would not be taken.
Pat1993
Montreal Canadiens
Location: disguise delimit, QC
Joined: 08.28.2009

Nov 25 @ 4:55 PM ET
My point is that Price would not have been a bad pick AND mb did everything he could to ensure price would not be taken.
- mr.peanut



it's possible, but the way I see it is with Price's contract and injury history you didn't have any real convincing to do.
Mashadar
Location: Let the creamy goaltending season begin! - EK
Joined: 08.31.2014

Nov 25 @ 4:57 PM ET
there is a logic behind what you're saying, but I feel the significant change that needs to happen is in terms of management, drafting and player development. these changes alone could definitely help putting this team on the right track again.
- Pat1993


I guess it comes down to do you want a team that "most likely won't make the playoffs, but never bad enough to get a top pick, while occasionally squeezing into a few times per decade" or do you want a team that "definately won't make the playoffs for 5 years, gets higher picks, and tries.to build a younger core to be competitive when capable of making the playoffs almost every year"?

Sure there is risk in a rebuild, but over a 10 year period, I think the second one has a better chance to get you sustained playoff success, based on the Habs approach over the last 30
of failed management regimes that basically have all done the same thing.
mr.peanut
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Born Wearing Gold 2023-24: 6-0-0, QC
Joined: 12.18.2011

Nov 25 @ 4:57 PM ET
it's possible, but the way I see it is with Price's contract and injury history you didn't have any real convincing to do.
- Pat1993

I guess.

Francis did seem to take expansion draft tips from the thrashers and not the knights
Pat1993
Montreal Canadiens
Location: disguise delimit, QC
Joined: 08.28.2009

Nov 25 @ 5:00 PM ET
I guess it comes down to do you want a team that "most likely won't make the playoffs, but never bad enough to get a top pick, while occasionally squeezing into a few times per decade" or do you want a team that "definately won't make the playoffs for 5 years, gets higher picks, and tries.to build a younger core to be competitive when capable of making the playoffs almost every year"?

Sure there is risk in a rebuild, but over a 10 year period, I think the second one has a better chance to get you sustained playoff success, based on the Habs approach over the last 30
of failed management regimes that basically have all done the same thing.

- Mashadar


but my point is that you might not need to be a bottom feeder for all these years if you have proper player development and drafting in place. let bygones be bygones I guess.
Mashadar
Location: Let the creamy goaltending season begin! - EK
Joined: 08.31.2014

Nov 25 @ 5:09 PM ET
but my point is that you might not need to be a bottom feeder for all these years if you have proper player development and drafting in place. let bygones be bygones I guess.
- Pat1993


Yeah, 5-7 year process, perhaps. Maybe sooner if you have lots of picks, good drafting, solid player development, and some luck.

How many playoffs do you think this team can make to over the next 5-7 years? And I don't even mean win a round, just qualify? History has shown the current approach will likely mean not many of them.

So what are you giving up?

This team is on pace for for what... 20 wins and maybe 48/49 points?

Is a rebuilding team really that worse?
fidopro
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Service Temporarily Unavailable, QC
Joined: 08.10.2008

Nov 25 @ 5:10 PM ET
but my point is that you might not need to be a bottom feeder for all these years if you have proper player development and drafting in place. let bygones be bygones I guess.
- Pat1993

agreed 100%. mainly drafting. you cannot develop what is not there.
Pat1993
Montreal Canadiens
Location: disguise delimit, QC
Joined: 08.28.2009

Nov 25 @ 5:13 PM ET
Yeah, 5-7 year process, perhaps. Maybe sooner if you have lots of picks, good drafting, solid player development, and some luck.

How many playoffs do you think this team can make to over the next 5-7 years? And I don't even mean win a round, just qualify? History has shown the current approach will likely mean not many of them.

So what are you giving up?

This team is on pace for for what... 20 wins and maybe 48/49 points?

Is a rebuilding team really that worse?

- Mashadar


like I said in the previous thread, evaluating this team as of right now will skew your perceptions, since it's heavily underperforming, the same way it would've been a huge mistake to think they could repeat the success they had in the playoffs last season after losing so many important players.
Mashadar
Location: Let the creamy goaltending season begin! - EK
Joined: 08.31.2014

Nov 25 @ 5:22 PM ET
like I said in the previous thread, evaluating this team as of right now will skew your perceptions, since it's heavily underperforming, the same way it would've been a huge mistake to think they could repeat the success they had in the playoffs last season after losing so many important players.
- Pat1993


Fine, look at the last 10 years as an example, and how it has led to this year. Every time the Habs get a little bit of success, people get super excited, management makes bad off season decisions and they regress for 2-3-4 years.

We have seen this exact same thing play out over multiple owners, and too-many-to-count failed management teams because they are too chickenpoop to do what is right and to face the criticism of taking the hard approach.

Quick fix after quick fix, after quick fail.

Anyways, you know my position, not sure why I even bother anymore... At least until there is a purge and we hear from a new set of people. My hope is they are visionaries, not reactionaries.
Pat1993
Montreal Canadiens
Location: disguise delimit, QC
Joined: 08.28.2009

Nov 25 @ 5:28 PM ET
Fine, look at the last 10 years as an example, and how it has led to this year. Every time the Habs get a little bit of success, people get super excited, management makes bad off season decisions and they regress for 2-3-4 years.

We have seen this exact same thing play out over multiple owners, and too-many-to-count failed management teams because they are too chickenpoop to do what is right and to face the criticism of taking the hard approach.

Quick fix after quick fix, after quick fail.

Anyways, you know my position, not sure why I even bother anymore... At least until there is a purge and we hear from a new set of people. My hope is they are visionaries, not reactionaries.

- Mashadar


again, I get what you're saying, but with the right personnel they most likely won't repeat what occurred in the last 10 years... the (frank) ups that happened after the 93 cup run took a very long time to recover from, and now with a bit of luck we'll get some people in place who as you say have a vision, and an actual plan to bring this team up to being consistently competitive. who knows, perhaps they'll push for a rebuild and you'll get what you wished for.
Xizord
Montreal Canadiens
Location: I am Eklund, QC
Joined: 01.03.2007

Nov 25 @ 5:36 PM ET
You listed a bunch you also wanted to trade... But let's not focus on that.

Let's focus on what you are suggesting.

Here is the problem: what are those 6 players realistically going to bring back, if they can be traded?

Not much that can help this team.

All you are suggesting is continuing the trend that has failed this organization for the last 30 years. Patchwork trades to (sometimes) fix a problem in the short-term, but have longer-term ramifications (bad contracts, getting old, etc...).

And on top of that years of poor asset management, bad player development, cap killing contracts, c and d level free agents that do not work out with their bad contracts.

At some point, the Habs are going to have to realize this needs to be stripped down and rebuilt.

Do all rebuilds work perfectly?

No.

But maybe trying something new, when you have a few cornerstone young kids, makes more sense to try than another 30 years.of patchwork garbage that drives the same conversation and disappointments we've had for years.

- Mashadar


that really remains to be seen, cause my goal would be to trade for the future

I dont recall we MTL being seller that often, so if thats not trying something different I dont know what is ?
Mashadar
Location: Let the creamy goaltending season begin! - EK
Joined: 08.31.2014

Nov 25 @ 5:36 PM ET
again, I get what you're saying, but with the right personnel they most likely won't repeat what occurred in the last 10 years... the (frank) ups that happened after the 93 cup run took a very long time to recover from, and now with a bit of luck we'll get some people in place who as you say have a vision, and an actual plan to bring this team up to being consistently competitive. who knows, perhaps they'll push for a rebuild and you'll get what you wished for.
- Pat1993


My wish is for a team that competes every night, wins more games than loses, makes the playoffs most years, has a few deep runs, and with a little luck, maybe even win a cup.

I really don't care how they get there, but I know that the last 30 years of ownership and management have tried the same approach over and over again, never once daring to even try something new.

So I am ready for something new - on and off the ice.
Pat1993
Montreal Canadiens
Location: disguise delimit, QC
Joined: 08.28.2009

Nov 25 @ 5:45 PM ET
My wish is for a team that competes every night, wins more games than loses, makes the playoffs most years, has a few deep runs, and with a little luck, maybe even win a cup.

I really don't care how they get there, but I know that the last 30 years of ownership and management have tried the same approach over and over again, never once daring to even try something new.

So I am ready for something new - on and off the ice.

- Mashadar



I think most of us would be satisfied with this, yes. we'll see how it goes... I'm just crossing my fingers they'll hire very competent people, and not a passionate ex-player who might not be making the right decisions (aka Patrick Roy lol)
fidopro
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Service Temporarily Unavailable, QC
Joined: 08.10.2008

Nov 25 @ 5:49 PM ET
I think most of us would be satisfied with this, yes. we'll see how it goes... I'm just crossing my fingers they'll hire very competent people, and not a passionate ex-player who might not be making the right decisions (aka Patrick Roy lol)
- Pat1993

when at 3rd overall you draft by position instead of BPA, you deserve to be fired on the spot. that is criminal. teams pay for decades for such mistakes.
Pat1993
Montreal Canadiens
Location: disguise delimit, QC
Joined: 08.28.2009

Nov 25 @ 5:51 PM ET
when at 3rd overall you draft by position instead of BPA, you deserve to be fired on the spot. that is criminal. teams pay for decades for such mistakes.
- fidopro



can't disagree with this, especially when you consider how both players have turned out so far... yikes.
Mashadar
Location: Let the creamy goaltending season begin! - EK
Joined: 08.31.2014

Nov 25 @ 5:55 PM ET
I think most of us would be satisfied with this, yes. we'll see how it goes... I'm just crossing my fingers they'll hire very competent people, and not a passionate ex-player who might not be making the right decisions (aka Patrick Roy lol)
- Pat1993


The only reason MB still has a job is that the Habs can't get anyone semi-competent to replace him.

And if you can't find someone better than MB, you got big organizational problems that start at the top.
Pat1993
Montreal Canadiens
Location: disguise delimit, QC
Joined: 08.28.2009

Nov 25 @ 6:02 PM ET
The only reason MB still has a job is that the Habs can't get anyone semi-competent to replace him.

And if you can't find someone better than MB, you got big organizational problems that start at the top.

- Mashadar


there could be a president of operations, an intermediate between the GM and owner, that could be hired and that wouldn't have to speak French. there are no language prerequisites to replace Timmins either... so the way I see it is there aren't any real excuses or exaggerated limits that could prevent them from hiring the most competent people available.
fidopro
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Service Temporarily Unavailable, QC
Joined: 08.10.2008

Nov 25 @ 6:18 PM ET
there could be a president of operations, an intermediate between the GM and owner, that could be hired and that wouldn't have to speak French. there are no language prerequisites to replace Timmins either... so the way I see it is there aren't any real excuses or exaggerated limits that could prevent them from hiring the most competent people available.
- Pat1993

but there should be.
Mashadar
Location: Let the creamy goaltending season begin! - EK
Joined: 08.31.2014

Nov 25 @ 6:19 PM ET
there could be a president of operations, an intermediate between the GM and owner, that could be hired and that wouldn't have to speak French. there are no language prerequisites to replace Timmins either... so the way I see it is there aren't any real excuses or exaggerated limits that could prevent them from hiring the most competent people available.
- Pat1993


I think you are kidding yourself if you believe there would not be an outcry if a senior person in the organization that was not French speaking (and quite frankly, not someone from Quebec).

Look at how apepoop the media got when there was not a Francophone in the lineup last year? Look at how much of a media frenzy the head of Air Canada caused a few weeks back, and no one gives a poop about Air Canada.and who runs it.... Now replace Air Canada with the Habs, and see how many do think they care (most being the media, with their skewed agenda).
Mashadar
Location: Let the creamy goaltending season begin! - EK
Joined: 08.31.2014

Nov 25 @ 6:27 PM ET
but there should be.
- fidopro


I don't give a flying (frank) if that person - he or she - only speaks ancient Greek, as long as they get the job done.

The GM of the Habs is not a social services director or member of government, where I agree French needs to be mandatory.
Pat1993
Montreal Canadiens
Location: disguise delimit, QC
Joined: 08.28.2009

Nov 25 @ 6:32 PM ET
I think you are kidding yourself if you believe there would not be an outcry if a senior person in the organization that was not French speaking (and quite frankly, not someone from Quebec).

Look at how apepoop the media got when there was not a Francophone in the lineup last year? Look at how much of a media frenzy the head of Air Canada caused a few weeks back, and no one gives a poop about Air Canada.and who runs it.... Now replace Air Canada with the Habs, and see how many do think they care (most being the media, with their skewed agenda).

- Mashadar


meh, if the owner and GM speak french and are available to talk to the media I don't think there would be such an outcry. if there are competent French-speaking people that are available to fill out all positions then sure, go ahead, but I think the controversy stems from a loud minority of people and media, things have evolved and the majority of fans just want a winning team now.
Pat1993
Montreal Canadiens
Location: disguise delimit, QC
Joined: 08.28.2009

Nov 25 @ 6:33 PM ET
but there should be.
- fidopro



ugh, sorry but that I find it's a pointless and old mentality.
mr.peanut
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Born Wearing Gold 2023-24: 6-0-0, QC
Joined: 12.18.2011

Nov 25 @ 6:42 PM ET
but there should be.
- fidopro

know how to read prospect reports?
Mashadar
Location: Let the creamy goaltending season begin! - EK
Joined: 08.31.2014

Nov 25 @ 6:49 PM ET
know how to read prospect reports?
- mr.peanut


They were probably all in French.

Poor TT.
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13  Next