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Forums :: Blog World :: Mike Augello: Leafs Top 40 Prospects - #12
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Arctic_AARDVARK
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I take Joel for walks around the block, AB
Joined: 07.24.2011

Oct 20 @ 8:35 PM ET
Coaches disagree… so stuck in 2018!
- jribout

I don’t even know what you’re talking about.

All you do is try to start fights with me, it’s pretty obvious. Get a new a shtick.
fifty__missions
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Burkie's Rented Barn, ON
Joined: 02.12.2013

Oct 20 @ 8:37 PM ET
He earned a first team all star nod.

But I guess that’s no good enough. Defensive stats don’t show up on the game sheet, and I suspect that’s why he’s regarded as the best RW’er in the game.

He doesn’t deserve bumholes in the media asking him how he’s going to produce more with his contract. It’s disgusting how people treat him. He’s could be the top scoring Leaf of all time and gets treated like garbage by fans and media. That circus that happened when he was negotiating his contract and everyone was attacking his family was the lowest, most bile thing that’s ever happened in Toronto sports. Mitch is too good for Toronto imo, and if he picked up and went someone else I wouldn’t blame him one bit. He doesn’t owe any of you anything.

- Arctic_AARDVARK


No, actually he's not been good enough. Especially in the most important time of the season, when he needs to live up to that contract that he went to the wall for, and bled every red cent out of the team he could. Maybe this isn't the market for Mitch if he can't handle the heat.
jribout
Season Ticket Holder
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 01.24.2011

Oct 20 @ 8:37 PM ET
I don’t even know what you’re talking about.

All you do is try to start fights with me, it’s pretty obvious. Get a new a shtick.

- Arctic_AARDVARK


Coaches disagree that Nylander cannot play any defense.
bobbyisno1
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I'm excited to see that
Joined: 08.28.2010

Oct 20 @ 8:37 PM ET
Nylander is a 65pt player with zero defensive game, who goes on quiet stretches. I wouldn’t pay 7M for that.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

But you would pay $10.9 for a guy on the first powerplay unit and hasn't scored a powerplay goal in 74 games?
Aaron_85
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 04.22.2014

Oct 20 @ 8:39 PM ET
here's a guy who won 3 cups, and who doesn't play with an 11M center.
- fidopro


We are talking style of player not the accomplishments. But thanks for proving my point. He's won and to my knowledge was never considered some stalwart defensive winger.

He scores. End. Of. Story.
Big23Questions
Detroit Red Wings
Joined: 04.11.2018

Oct 20 @ 8:39 PM ET
Nylander is a 65pt player with zero defensive game, who goes on quiet stretches. I wouldn’t pay 7M for that.
- Arctic_AARDVARK



- Marner is not a good defensive player 5v5
- Marner kills penalties very well. He has great anticipation because he has good offensive mind.
- if you take out the 2 messed up seasons (Covid) where one was cut short and the other was only against Canadian teams for short stretch (56games). Marner had the HUGE 94 pt season when Tavares first signed in Toronto and absolutely crushed it.

- Nylander has been consistently good take out his contract year where he missed time and camp and all that fun stuff. His fault absolutely. But he is a Solid 60-70 pt guy.
- I’m just of the opinion that Marners 94 pt season was a bit of an outlier. Will he outscore Nylander, absolutely! Will he outscore him to the tune of the pay difference - absolutely not.

I could care less about either - but from a dollars per output, Nylander is the better contract.
fifty__missions
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Burkie's Rented Barn, ON
Joined: 02.12.2013

Oct 20 @ 8:39 PM ET
I’m willing to bet his agent asked for it and told the leafs that he wouldn’t even let Marner sign something without it. He was 21 at the time no way in hell that he was the one making the primary financial decisions.
- Dozzer


I'm calling bullpoop on this. He wanted to get paid, and he went to the wall to do it. To say he got railroaded by his agent, or his dad, because he was 21 is pure speculation. At best.
Arctic_AARDVARK
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I take Joel for walks around the block, AB
Joined: 07.24.2011

Oct 20 @ 8:39 PM ET
But you would pay $10.9 for a guy on the first powerplay unit and hasn't scored a powerplay goal in 74 games?
- bobbyisno1

If he creates offence (which he does) and is sound defensively (which he is) then yeah.
Barb34
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 07.29.2017

Oct 20 @ 8:41 PM ET
Just to be clear so we can have a level discussion

Tampa ≠ Toronto

Marner ≠ P. Kane

Nylander is underrated

Matthews is a (frank)ing beast

Tavares was probably a wrong move in retrospect. (frank)ing Covid and flat Cap.

¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

If we all start from there, in the real world, we would all agree more.
Big23Questions
Detroit Red Wings
Joined: 04.11.2018

Oct 20 @ 8:42 PM ET
If he creates offence (which he does) and is sound defensively (which he is) then yeah.
- Arctic_AARDVARK



My last thing on Marner;

Ya but he’s really only played 3 full seasons basically. He tallied 61, 69 and the when he paired up with JT (Tavares has a Huge year) he tallied 94pts.

I’m not sure what the pace he was on last year and the abbreviated season prior but technically has only had the one full season where he’s looked the Big Contract Superstar (94pts).
Again though and as always - he’s really offensively skilled for sure and I always like seeing talent regardless of who I cheer fit. It’s good for the game and as a Canadian if he is the Superstar he’s paid like, he’s an unreal singer for Team Canada!
Aaron_85
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 04.22.2014

Oct 20 @ 8:42 PM ET
Nah, not really. Tampa had plenty of playoff success before the CBJ knock out. Most knew they were legit contenders.

I can tell you with certainty that the Leafs are not quite built for the rigors of playoffs...mentally or physically....YET.

They weren't last year or the year before. Lost players while people gas lit themselves.

If they stop losing assets and make a few tough trades to balance out $$$ on the roster, they will be right there with the same chance as others in the playoffs.

Campbell, I love but ??? he's no Vasi
Mrazek, who knows

Defense, not there yet.
Bottom 6, not there yet.

Top 6, one injury away from (frank)ery still, will Marner show up, will Matthews score, is Ritchie/Bunting going to work???? Few questions in our top 6 still too.

- Barb34


Because Ovie was such a mentally and physical playoff specimen before he won too. The story was "couldn't win with Ovie" before he won. Now he's some playoff warrior.

Leafs will get there too.

A lot of teams are one top 6 injury away from (frank)ery still. Tampa is the only exception to this rule and even then, we shall see how it shakes out without their deep 3rd line.

It's 4 games. Of course there's questions but so do all the other playoff contenders have questions as well. Colorado hasn't even been to the finals and people act like they've won something.

They won one maybe two playoff rounds? Who gives a (frank)? They still went home empty handed.
Arctic_AARDVARK
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I take Joel for walks around the block, AB
Joined: 07.24.2011

Oct 20 @ 8:43 PM ET
Just to be clear so we can have a level discussion

Tampa ≠ Toronto

Marner ≠ P. Kane

Nylander is underrated

Matthews is a (frank)ing beast

Tavares was probably a wrong move in retrospect. (frank)ing Covid and flat Cap.

¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

If we all start from there, in the real world, we would all agree more.

- Barb34

Nylander is not underrated lol.

But everything else is okay.
Aaron_85
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 04.22.2014

Oct 20 @ 8:43 PM ET
The most pessimistic posters are all here at the same time tonight. I'm going to actually go and enjoy something in my life instead of being negative about something I supposedly have passion for.
Dozzer
Referee
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow since I’m way up high
Joined: 09.15.2010

Oct 20 @ 8:44 PM ET
The posts today

“I hate this guy, he’s good but he’s not good enough”
“No way he’s good enough it’s this guy who isn’t good enough”
“No way he’s fine but this guy is only good enough 75% of the time”
“Yeah but your guy hasn’t done this or this for this long”

Fan favouritism and over the top judgement about wingers is being made beautifully
Arctic_AARDVARK
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I take Joel for walks around the block, AB
Joined: 07.24.2011

Oct 20 @ 8:47 PM ET
My last thing on Marner;

Ya but he’s really only played 3 full seasons basically. He tallied 61, 69 and the when he paired up with JT (Tavares has a Huge year) he tallied 94pts.

I’m not sure what the pace he was on last year and the abbreviated season prior but technically has only had the one full season where he’s looked the Big Contract Superstar (94pts).
Again though and as always - he’s really offensively skilled for sure and I always like seeing talent regardless of who I cheer fit. It’s good for the game and as a Canadian if he is the Superstar he’s paid like, he’s an unreal singer for Team Canada!

- Big23Questions

100 pts.

He’s elite. A lock to ride shotty with McDavid on Team Canada. Salt of the Earth kind of guy. He’s everything Toronto could’ve ever hoped for, local guy.

But nah, not good enough. It’s madness. People are so awful sometimes.
Barb34
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 07.29.2017

Oct 20 @ 8:48 PM ET
Because Ovie was such a mentally and physical playoff specimen before he won too. The story was "couldn't win with Ovie" before he won. Now he's some playoff warrior.

Leafs will get there too.

A lot of teams are one top 6 injury away from (frank)ery still. Tampa is the only exception to this rule and even then, we shall see how it shakes out without their deep 3rd line.

It's 4 games. Of course there's questions but so do all the other playoff contenders have questions as well. Colorado hasn't even been to the finals and people act like they've won something.

They won one maybe two playoff rounds? Who gives a (frank)? They still went home empty handed.

- Aaron_85


If I watched Ovie and the Caps as much as I do the Leafs....pretty sure the Caps team that won the Cup was a more balanced team than the Caps team years past and Ovie started playing a more team game.

So ya, there was talk at the time that they couldn't win with Ovie. They fixed the team, got the right coach and fixed Ovie's play a bit....he probably matured a bit.

Of course the Leafs can do this too, but the Caps did a much better job managing assets compared to the Leafs right now.

George(?), Caps GM, went on to make a playoff beast team out of expansion scraps. He's one of the more underrated GMs.
jribout
Season Ticket Holder
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 01.24.2011

Oct 20 @ 8:48 PM ET
The most pessimistic posters are all here at the same time tonight. I'm going to actually go and enjoy something in my life instead of being negative about something I supposedly have passion for.
- Aaron_85


You going back to Melmac?
fidopro
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Service Temporarily Unavailable, QC
Joined: 08.10.2008

Oct 20 @ 8:49 PM ET
100 pts.

He’s elite. A lock to play on a line with McDavid on Team Canada. Salt of the Earth kind of guy. He’s everything Toronto could’ve ever hoped for, local guy.

But nah, not good enough. It’s madness. People are so awful sometimes.

- Arctic_AARDVARK

I'm not saying he's not good. I'm saying you would have a better team if the money was used differently, reallocated. you cannot win a cup with 4 players.
bobbyisno1
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I'm excited to see that
Joined: 08.28.2010

Oct 20 @ 8:50 PM ET
If he creates offence (which he does) and is sound defensively (which he is) then yeah.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

He's a point per game player, .66 in the playoffs. 11 million is setup high.
fifty__missions
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Burkie's Rented Barn, ON
Joined: 02.12.2013

Oct 20 @ 8:51 PM ET
100 pts.

He’s elite. A lock to ride shotty with McDavid on Team Canada. Salt of the Earth kind of guy. He’s everything Toronto could’ve ever hoped for, local guy.

But nah, not good enough. It’s madness. People are so awful sometimes.

- Arctic_AARDVARK


An elite regular season player. That is undeniable. Will be a bottom six forward on the Olympic Team. No chance he is RW1.
fifty__missions
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Burkie's Rented Barn, ON
Joined: 02.12.2013

Oct 20 @ 8:53 PM ET
I'm not saying he's not good. I'm saying you would have a better team if the money was used differently, reallocated. you cannot win a cup with 4 players.
- fidopro

You're absolutely right.
bobbyisno1
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I'm excited to see that
Joined: 08.28.2010

Oct 20 @ 8:53 PM ET
The posts today

“I hate this guy, he’s good but he’s not good enough”
“No way he’s good enough it’s this guy who isn’t good enough”
“No way he’s fine but this guy is only good enough 75% of the time”
“Yeah but your guy hasn’t done this or this for this long”

Fan favouritism and over the top judgement about wingers is being made beautifully

- Dozzer

Whats you point?
No fun in complaining if you can't complain.
Big23Questions
Detroit Red Wings
Joined: 04.11.2018

Oct 20 @ 8:54 PM ET
100 pts.

He’s elite. A lock to ride shotty with McDavid on Team Canada. Salt of the Earth kind of guy. He’s everything Toronto could’ve ever hoped for, local guy.

But nah, not good enough. It’s madness. People are so awful sometimes.

- Arctic_AARDVARK



Oh man don’t say I’m awful. I think Marner is a good player man. I also just happen to think Nylander is a good player. In the discussion regarding value I just think Nylander is a better value.
Just hockey talk man.
Arctic_AARDVARK
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I take Joel for walks around the block, AB
Joined: 07.24.2011

Oct 20 @ 8:54 PM ET
I'm not saying he's not good. I'm saying you would have a better team if the money was used differently, reallocated. you cannot win a cup with 4 players.
- fidopro

I think he’s getting paid appropriately. We’ve been over this a million times, so I won’t bother repeating it anymore.

There’s more to being an elite player than just putting up pts, which he’s exceptional at btw. He makes everyone around him better.

We don’t need a 7M one-dimensional winger. If the Leafs needed more scoring then sure go get that guy, but they’re fine with offence, they need guys who’ll battle for 60 minutes and do all the little things right.
Dozzer
Referee
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow since I’m way up high
Joined: 09.15.2010

Oct 20 @ 8:55 PM ET
An elite regular season player. That is undeniable. Will be a bottom six forward on the Olympic Team. No chance he is RW1.
- fifty__missions


To be fair Sportsnet thinks otherwise and has him on a line with McDavid and Mackinnon

https://www.google.ca/amp...ens-hockey-roster/sn-amp/
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