EXACTLY.

While he might be coach in title only, he could wield power there that he may not have in Detroit or that other places may not give him.

The other teams that want Babcock should thank Hextall for taking away the wildcard franchise that might have, in the past, opened the vault for Babcock.
- johndewar

That, and truthfully, I don't think Babcock's the right coach for this team at this time

Just my opinion

'I think there is a number of assumptions being made here.
- MJL

I was going to say the same thing but I let it go. I find it hard to believe the Flyers have no need for shot blocking or a strong defenseman who can clear the crease.

I mean this hasn't been done since the early to mid 80's. You don't see coaches go from NCAA hockey directly to an NHL head coaching job.
I'm not saying it can't work, but to me this wreaks of Hextall trying to be the smartest guy in the room.
- PLindbergh31

I don't see much of a difference between hiring a chl guy or an ncaa guy. I'd say NCAA coaches are coaching older and more mature players generally. There have been plenty of solid nhlers coming from the college ranks in recent years. I'd guess if it were a guy who has been coaching a real solid chl team for a decade, there wouldn't be as much scrutiny. I don't see a difference

EXACTLY.

While he might be coach in title only, he could wield power there that he may not have in Detroit or that other places may not give him.

The other teams that want Babcock should thank Hextall for taking away the wildcard franchise that might have, in the past, opened the vault for Babcock.
- johndewar

Babcock's still going to get paid. With the Maple Leafs and Terry Pegula still among the suitors he won't have to worry about not getting a big dollars offer.

And by "certain level of say and communication between the Coach and GM", Mike Babcock probably means "The GM, whoever he is, has to listen to me more....and possibly do what I say".
- johndewar

I find it hard to believe he doesn't already have this with Ken Holland.

Mike Keenan had less experience and 10+year younger when he got his big first gig with the flyers,but Keenan had a better deeper roster
- Landsbergfan

That Flyers team that Keenan took over was the youngest team in the NHL.

Also of note: Keenan coached the University of Toronto right before taking the Flyers job.

But I guess that's college hockey, and therefore, doesn't count.

I find it hard to believe he doesn't already have this with Ken Holland.
- SuperSchennBros

If he does, what's he looking for, other than more money?

No sense in arguing with people here. It's the Flyers did everything right and perfect. They don't make mistakes. This is a great decision even though people like Bobby Mack are confused. You are not allowed to question any decision ever. It's 1984 every year in here.
- Flyers1218

I think you're missing the point of the argument. The argument isn't that this is a great hire, or isn't potentially a mistake. The argument is how do you know that it's a mistake before he's even held his first practice with the team?
There's a difference between questioning the decision, and looking at the pros and cons objectively, versus condemning the move right out of the gate.

That, and truthfully, I don't think Babcock's the right coach for this team at this time

Just my opinion
- AllInForFlyers

Agree with that too.

Babcock's still going to get paid. With the Maple Leafs and Terry Pegula still among the suitors he won't have to worry about not getting a big dollars offer.
- BulliesPhan87

Very true....taking out the Flyers, however, is just one variable these teams no longer have to worry about.

If he does, what's he looking for, other than more money?
- johndewar

I don't know. Feeling out process of what he could make or what opportunities are out there. There is nothing wrong with entertaining or exploring options.

His first coaching job was at Forest Hill Collegiate Institute in Toronto, Ontario, where he coached the varsity hockey team. In 1977 he became the coach of the Oshawa Legionaires of the Metro Junior B Hockey League, where he led them to back-to-back championships in 1979 and 1980. The following year he began his junior coaching career with the Peterborough Petes before moving on to the Rochester Americans, which he guided to the American Hockey League championship in 1983. He returned to University of Toronto to lead it to the CIAU title. He then landed his first high-profile job with the Philadelphia Flyers in 1984.Mike Keenan

I don't see much of a difference between hiring a chl guy or an ncaa guy. I'd say NCAA coaches are coaching older and more mature players generally. There have been plenty of solid nhlers coming from the college ranks in recent years. I'd guess if it were a guy who has been coaching a real solid chl team for a decade, there wouldn't be as much scrutiny. I don't see a difference
- Just5

I don't disagree. But there seemed to be a good amount of guys available who've spent time on an NHL bench. Babcock, Boucher, DeBoer, Mclellan, Dineen... That's five coaches right there. I don't know man. If something hasn't been done in 30 some odd years how can it not be considered a reach at best?

I think hakstol should strip the captaincies on the team and go into camp with a clean slate. Let the players show him whose going to push his message. Clean slate
- Just5

Stripping players of the captaincies is the opposite of giving a clean slate.

If he does, what's he looking for, other than more money?
- johndewar

He doesn't -- what he wants is what Patrick Roy has: Authority over the NHL roster, joint input into player selection and acquisition

He doesn't want to be the GM, as far as scouting and contract negotiations are concerned.

He does, however, want to pick who the hell is on the ice, who is brought up and demoted, and have significant input into who gets moved or signed

His first coaching job was at Forest Hill Collegiate Institute in Toronto, Ontario, where he coached the varsity hockey team. In 1977 he became the coach of the Oshawa Legionaires of the Metro Junior B Hockey League, where he led them to back-to-back championships in 1979 and 1980. The following year he began his junior coaching career with the Peterborough Petes before moving on to the Rochester Americans, which he guided to the American Hockey League championship in 1983. He returned to University of Toronto to lead it to the CIAU title. He then landed his first high-profile job with the Philadelphia Flyers in 1984.Mike Keenan
- Landsbergfan

He doesn't -- what he wants is what Patrick Roy has: Authority over the NHL roster, joint input into player selection and acquisition

He doesn't want to be the GM, as far as scouting and contract negotiations are concerned.

He does, however, want to pick who the hell is on the ice, who is brought up and demoted, and have significant input into who gets moved or signed
- AllInForFlyers

That is my point, with respect to dismissing any public proclamation that Babcock "doesn't want to be GM".

He may not want the title or the bullpoop that goes with the job, but he sure seems to want the good stuff that goes with that gig.

This isn't just going outside the box. This is going off the god damn continent to make this decision. This is the type of decision that if it fails, it gets you fired.

I feel like this is comparable to the hiring of John Idzik by the Jets. Everyone in the know said that guy would be in over his head. They were right. Seems most teams don't think highly of going this route which is why it hasn't happened in 33 years.
- Flyers1218

Hiring Deboer, and McLellan or any other coach with NHL experience can also fail, and get a GM fired. Most experienced coaches have been fired. Some more then once.

He doesn't -- what he wants is what Patrick Roy has: Authority over the NHL roster, joint input into player selection and acquisition

He doesn't want to be the GM, as far as scouting and contract negotiations are concerned.

He does, however, want to pick who the hell is on the ice, who is brought up and demoted, and have significant input into who gets moved or signed
- AllInForFlyers

I actually feel like this is a bad position for any Coach. Let's say a popular player gets traded, I don't think you want your players feeling like your Coach was directly responsible and that they could be next because you interact with the Coach directly. I think it's even worse to have Patrick Roy to have this kind of power because he's a hot head and arrogant.

That is my point, with respect to dismissing any public proclamation that Babcock "doesn't want to be GM".

He may not want the title or the bullpoop that goes with the job, but he sure seems to want the good stuff that goes with that gig.
- johndewar

That's exactly what he wants -- he wants what Roy got, and I don't blame him, considering you can get your ass fired any second

Roy is equal in Hockey Ops to Joe Sakic. I don't even think Sakic can fire Roy

If you're Mike Babcock, that's what you're looking for: Who can fire me? Who picks the players who can get me fired?

I don't disagree. But there seemed to be a good amount of guys available who've spent time on an NHL bench. Babcock, Boucher, DeBoer, Mclellan, Dineen... That's five coaches right there. I don't know man. If something hasn't been done in 30 some odd years how can it not be considered a reach at best?
- PLindbergh31

F 30 years

It's been 40 years. I'm ready to try something like this

And again, Berube didn't have a lot of Head Coaching experience either at the NHL level. In fact, he had none but he worked his way up through the ranks and it didn't workout. I don't want to be in the same position we were yesterday or last week in 2 years from now because we took a gamble on a guy and it didn't workout. I think we should have hired an NHL Coach.
- SuperSchennBros

Every NHL coach at one time, was a coach without NHL experience.

At the end of the day if this guy is able to come in and put a solid foundation in place, and give the kids a fair shot I am game.

The team isn't winning jack poop next season, and is still loaded with too much dead weight, along with a d-core that struggles to handle/move the puck.

If people are expecting him to change the fortunes of next season, the guy is (frank)ed already. I am game to see what he's got to offer, he will have some leeway with the turd show in front of him.

I hope the hire would not be a result of NEPOTISM he coached Hex son

Every NHL coach at one time, was a coach without NHL experience.
- MJL

Yes but the point missed is, we're going back to back with two Coaches with very little NHL Coaching experience, which I'm not sure is the best idea. I'm not bashing the hire, I just think I would have preferred a guy who could sort out any current holes we might have.